The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

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CowboyTutt
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The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

I'm a bit shocked to report this as its one of my favorite cartridges, but it seems manufacturers are moving away from it. Taurus used to make a Raging Bull and I think a Raging Hunter in 454 Casull, but it appears that is no more as they have upgraded to the 460 S&W cartridge in a new revolver. I would be interested in said gun as it would make a good companion piece to my S&W 460 ES (Emergency Survival kit gun) with its 2 3/4' barrel. So when I recently looked things up, I only see 3 companies now making guns chambered for 454 Casull, 4 if you count Big Horn Armory in their lever gun rifle variant. In a handgun, you can have a Ruger, Freedom Arms or Magnum Research and in a long gun the Big Horn Armory lever gun. That appears to be it near it as I can tell. No doubt the 460 S&W has it all over the 454 Casull, it has a much longer case so no surprises there. I own both and written about them both.

https://gunblast.com/AndyTuttle_SW460ES.htm

But the Casull had an advantage in a lighter revolver when compared to the 460, could maybe carry more rounds (Ruger Super Redhawk) and has killed every animal on the planet. It simply offered the most fire power in a case only 1/10th of an inch longer than a 45 (Long) Colt. Hard to beat that.

The 460 Smith is very nice, may purchase another one in a long barrel revolver or maybe even lever gun. Probably better I move to the AR10 that Big Horn makes in 500 Auto Max as I think they did a better job with the twist rate.

But just a bit sad to see the diminishing popularity of the 454 Casull. I don't think its a secret anymore, but I got to meet with Dick on multiple occasions and its well documented in McPherson's books now with pictures and everything. I'm truly grateful and humbled that I had the opportunity to connect these great men. I was only a "fly on the wall" my friends, nothing more! But the conversations were amazing between Dick and McPherson and our group of mostly Shootists but not me of course. I just convinced others to make the trip to meet Casull, that's all. How I even managed to convince them to do that, is a mystery to me. I think it has more to do with the character of the Shootists themselves than myself. In my experience, they are really helpful people all of the time. It remains that way to this day. Working on some new loads in 454 Casull with Alliant 300 MP which should lead to slightly higher velocities. It defies the algorithms of Quick Load but it is not difficult to infer what load will work the best.

All that happened to me with my friends was in fact a life changing experience for me. Very grateful! Long live the 454 Casull!

Regards, -Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Mon May 30, 2022 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by 44shooter »

Was it ever really popular though? I always saw it as a FA cartridge til Ruger chambered the Super Blackhawk for it. The Taurus jumped on. You pretty much just lost the Taurus option which is probably the worst of the lot. But Taurus drops models often any way. Maybe T/C dropped 454 too and H&R/NEF is defunct. I think any of the three single actions would be great depending on what you want to spend.

I do agree the the 460 and 500 are too much for my tastes in revolvers at least.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I get the appeal of the 460 Smith & wesson, but to me it's been a long action rifle cartridge competing with 45-70, 458 Winchester and so on. Sure, you can put it in a 'handgun', but you can also put a 7mm Remington Magnum in a handgun.

The shorter cartridges like the 500 Smith & wesson, 500 Linebaugh, 454 Casull, 475 Linebaugh, 480 Ruger, and so on, represent cartridges that can legitimately fit in fairly normal sized handguns, and be shot well enough by an experienced shooter that there is such a thing as a rapid follow-up shot possible. They also offer the advantage that when they are chambered in a rifle, the gun is a bit more appropriately called a carbine versus a rifle, and has the increased maneuverability and magazine capacity to go with the shorter cartridge and shorter action.

I don't have need for, nor would be very good at shooting, a 500 Smith & Wesson revolver, but I think the 500 Smith & Wesson makes an excellent carbine or 'short-action-rifle' cartridge.

If I can stockpile enough 500 Smith & Wesson brass, I will probably get rid of my 45-70 Marlin guide Gun and cowboy action rifle, because honestly I really don't think the 336 action is up to that size of cartridge unless one is very careful to keep the pressures low. My big horn armory model 89 costs at least twice as much as a Marlin guide gun, but I think it's a much better firearm and much less likely to be overstressed with a hot round. The other option of course would be the 336 action in a 444 marlin, which leaves quite a bit more meat in the receiver and chamber area.

I can see how the edge has been pushed with the high pressure levels of the 500 Smith & wesson, 460 Smith & wesson, and 454 casull, when it comes to a revolver action and cylinder, but have not really heard much real world problem with them.

I suspect much of the problem is people buy them because they are the biggest and most powerful, and then once they shoot them they tend to change their mind because they don't tend to be fun to shoot with full power loads from a handgun.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

44shooter wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:13 pm Was it ever really popular though? I always saw it as a FA cartridge til Ruger chambered the Super Blackhawk for it. The Taurus jumped on. You pretty much just lost the Taurus option which is probably the worst of the lot. But Taurus drops models often any way. Maybe T/C dropped 454 too and H&R/NEF is defunct. I think any of the three single actions would be great depending on what you want to spend.

I do agree the the 460 and 500 are too much for my tastes in revolvers at least.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

Did Helmut finally add 300MP to QuickLoad? If so, I'll need to update. I've not updated in many years due to a lack of those newer Alliant powders.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Rim, as far as I know, 300 MP continues to defy the Quick Load algorithm. I believe it uses a "double deterrent" formulation, so its results cannot be predicted. That being said, just treat is as Lil'Gun and reduce your loads by 10% for your particular gun and work up from there. If you do so, I think you will be fine. Regards, -Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Tue May 31, 2022 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by ollogger »

I really like my 454 Ruger Alaskan, did some casting with a Lee 300 gr. mold Sunday, today i used up the rest of my 45 cal g.c. i opened the box of g.c. a year ago, so i shoot it a fair amount, not sure how many pb bullets i shot
close to a 1000 i suspect, would be neat to know some of the guys you hang around with!



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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Funny this came up. I was looking at some Casull brass and some .460 S&W and daydreaming about the latter in a custom Encore barrel—about a 12-incher.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by 44shooter »

Revolvers with a power level above 44mag/45C+P are a small market with quite a few cartridges between those an the extra long S&W rounds. 454, 480, 475, various 50s. There’s a lot of choices for a few buyers

Yeah the five shot Blackhawk is something people have wanted a long time. I think I would go for the 480 if I wanted more than 44/45 in a revolver. A 50 AE seems sensible too. In a revolver not that giant auto!
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Olliger, while I am partial to the 454 Casull, I can see why the Freedom Arms 500 Wyoming Express is the benchmark, and have shot one that belongs to my best friend Tym Hurst, in about a 4 1/2 inch barrel I think. I will correct this post when I hear from him if need be. It's just that the 454 Casull COL and chamber length, and gun length, really lends itself to a "packable firearm". Where the 460 Smith is not so packable. So I thank you for your input. I think the 454 Casull or any cartridge loaded up to that COL really lends itself to a compact and powerful firearm. And grateful that Dick Casull, rather than back off of his loads, decided to build a stronger single action six gun. Most people would have gone the "other way" and reduced the load, but Casull decided to build a stronger single action six gun. He had the ability to heat treat his own parts, and he did so. And he eventually "married" himself to Freedom Arms and Wayne Baker. The results of that marriage really helped all of us and grateful that it happened! -'Tutt
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Rimfire McNutjob wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 4:02 pm Did Helmut finally add 300MP to QuickLoad? If so, I'll need to update. I've not updated in many years due to a lack of those newer Alliant powders.
Rim, for I hope the last time, it is not possible for Quick Load to model multi-deterred propellants, such as 300-MP. Been trying to tell you this for over a year now. QL will never model such propellants until Hartmut entirely rewrites the modeling code, so that it can allow for deterrent profiles having three general curves and the transitions between those. And, even if Hartmut were able and willing to tackle that monumentally complicated problem, the reality is that the errors associated with the inevitable lot-to-lot variations in those profiles would, almost certainly, render the resulting calculation predictions so fraught with error as to be worse than useless in most potential applications. From McPherson. -Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Mon May 30, 2022 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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454 Casull or 460 Load Data

Post by CowboyTutt »

Rim, 454 Causull or 460 Smith data, it simply cannot be done with Quick Load using all powders using more than one deterrent! It can be done using approximations with other powders and load data from various manufacturers as posted on their websites, so please seek them out for load data, and reduce by 10 % and work forward from there. Go to Aliant's website and go from there. I think you will find estimations that will help you to work up a load! Wish you the best, I do the same thing here! Regards, -Tutt
Last edited by CowboyTutt on Mon May 30, 2022 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by piller »

The .480 Ruger is powerful, but I find it controllable. In a carbine, it can be a good stopper. Having let several friends shoot the .480, few complained about the recoil. One person who shot it was a young RN who had worked with me as a Pharmacy Tech while going to school at Navarro in Corsicana. She shot up 24 rounds and was ready then to go back to 9mm.
The .454 is more powerful, but the .480 does very well with 400 to 410 grain bullets. Heavier than that and they are starting to get too long.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by JimT »

I have my doubts that the 454 will disappear.

It has always been a specialty round ... few shooters will use it to its potential because of the extremely fast recoil impulse and high pressures. I shot mine for over 25 years and the majority of loads through it were 1200 to 1300 fps. They worked extremely well on the game I was shooting.

When we first got the Freedom Arms guns in the middle 1980's we did what most young shooters did in those days .. we worked at seeing how fast we could get it to go! Paco and I ran tests with bullets from 180 gr. to 320 gr. and loaded them until we ruined brand new unfired cases with one shot. We got the heavy SSK bullets up around 1800 fps. When you opened the loading gate the primer fell out on the ground.

I burned the throat out of my gun in less than a year and had to send it in to have it rebarreled. Recoil with those loads was vicious but at the time I got used to it. When I was in my 60's I discovered that kind of recoil was not kind to my fingers, hands and wrists. That was when I started trading off the heavy recoiling pistols. I was also shooting the .475 Linebaugh a lot up until that time.

These days my .45 Colt loads are 800 to 900 fps. The .38 Special is about perfect. The heaviest recoiling load I shoot is in the .41 Magnum .. 210 gr. XTP @ 1400 fps. I love my .44 Special 800 fps loads. And I shoot more .22's than anything.

But if I wanted a .45 that was built close to perfection I would still have a 454 Casull from Freedom Arms. They are the best factory built single action revolver available. Shooting target-loaded .45 Colts the gun would last forever with extreme accuracy.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Sarge »

^ I'm with Jim on this. There are enough 454s in Alaska alone to keep the cartridge alive for longer than it will matter to me. Right now the firearms & ammo industry is focused om 9mm/AR/box-fed bolt action stuff. This will change one day but it won't bee soon enough for the throwbacks among us.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I love the idea of the cartridge. But I have to admit that I never was able to learn to manage it well. The FA guns are amazing, but the recoil and blast was always just a bit too much for me to learn to shoot them well.

These days, I'm shooting .45 Colts at 8-900 fps and calling it good.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by 44shooter »

Yeah 44 mag and hot 45 colt are about all I want and prefer shooting reg 45 Colt, ACP, Schofield, midrange and cowboy 44 mag, 44 special, 40 S&W and the like. These all kick just enough to feel like I’m shooting something and will put a big enough hole in whatever I’m likely to shoot with a handgun.

I do want to try 480 and/or 50 AE to see what it is like. 454 and 475 and the SMith mags seem too much for me. The 460 looks controllable in the x frame but I’m not a fan of really oversized handguns. I’ve been eyeing the BFR short frame. Honestly the 44 would probably be my pick. I’d gain a chamber and have a nice revolver that would probably never wear out
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

44shooter wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 5:38 pm Yeah 44 mag and hot 45 colt are about all I want and prefer shooting reg 45 Colt, ACP, Schofield, midrange and cowboy 44 mag, 44 special, 40 S&W and the like. These all kick just enough to feel like I’m shooting something and will put a big enough hole in whatever I’m likely to shoot with a handgun.

I do want to try 480 and/or 50 AE to see what it is like. 454 and 475 and the SMith mags seem too much for me. The 460 looks controllable in the x frame but I’m not a fan of really oversized handguns. I’ve been eyeing the BFR short frame. Honestly the 44 would probably be my pick. I’d gain a chamber and have a nice revolver that would probably never wear out
44, just some comments. I agree that 44 Mag or 45 Colt+P in a ligher revolver like a Ruger New Model Blackhawk can be quite the handful. My Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt with a 360 grain Keith style bullet at 1150 fps 10 feet from the muzzle is plenty most of the time! And I have custom grips to help control the gun under recoil. The grip frame is awesome so you can choke up more, but the Ruger Bisley hammer is not so great to be honest. Yes, its very easy to reach and cock, but under heavy muzzle flip, its more straight back profile can result in "biting" you in the web between thumb and forefinger. There is a reason that Freedom Arms went with a more upswept hammer design in their guns with their own Bisley style grip.

I think you might like the 480 Ruger and 50 AE. As to the 454 Casull, it really depends so much on the revolver its chambered in. The Taurus Raging Bull was really about the easiest shooting 454 Casull ever made IMHO. Mine has the 8 1/2 inch bull barrel and porting, and with a 300 grain XTP Mag bullet at 1400+ fps, it's surprisingly east to shoot as the recoil is straight back and the rubber padding in the web of the hand is considerably thicker than my S&W 460 snubbie (2 3/4 inch barrel) which at least does have a smaller grip. I'm sure the longer X-Frame guns with porting are equally easy to shoot as the RB but probably a lot heavier! My snubbie weighs about half a pound more than my 8 1/2 RB!
The 475 L is a different animal because of the heavier bullets.

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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

When we first got the Freedom Arms guns in the middle 1980's we did what most young shooters did in those days .. we worked at seeing how fast we could get it to go! Paco and I ran tests with bullets from 180 gr. to 320 gr. and loaded them until we ruined brand new unfired cases with one shot. We got the heavy SSK bullets up around 1800 fps. When you opened the loading gate the primer fell out on the ground.

I burned the throat out of my gun in less than a year and had to send it in to have it rebarreled. Recoil with those loads was vicious but at the time I got used to it. When I was in my 60's I discovered that kind of recoil was not kind to my fingers, hands and wrists. That was when I started trading off the heavy recoiling pistols. I was also shooting the .475 Linebaugh a lot up until that time.
Jim, thanks for explaining all that. I have always wondered how it was possible to shoot the 454 Casull that fast in the FA revolvers? It seemed impossible to me. My Taurus has uniformed and polished chambers in a 5 shot design with a very tight barrel cylinder gap, no way I could attain those velocities and still get it to extract with the star ejector.

I'm sure the extractor rod on a SA gun is stronger and only operating against the sticking of a single case instead of 5, but boy those were hot loads! Have you ever played around with Lil'Gun in 454? I know that FA said it causes more throat erosion than H110/296 but I have not seen it in my 454 and Hodgdon Powders has also seen no evidence of it.

I have seen some slight forcing cone erosion in my 460 snubbie, but that is a lot more powder.

Regards,

-Tutt
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by JimT »

No sir. Not messed much with Lil Gun in anything but the 357 Magnum.

For the hottest loads possible in the 454 the cartridge cases have to be lightly oiled or they will be stuck so tight in the chambers that you cannot remove them. Dick Casull demonstrated this by driving a 260 gr. cast bullet through a piece of 3/8" steel plate. Nice clean hole. He told me that was the utmost max load you could run in the gun. He oiled the cases so he could get them out of the chambers. He said there was still a 40% margin of safety even at those pressures.

I do not recommend it but I have seen it with my own eyes.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Bronco »

Never thought it would happen ! Now I have bore envy with my teeny Redhawk 44 mag. :oops:
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Jim, that once again "explains the unexplainable" so I can't tell you how much I appreciate that! I don't think this information even came out to us who visited him. Wow, I am bookmarking this thread and will pass that on. Your personal experiences are priceless to me in this case, thank you Sir! Never heard of this ever before in all my years studying this cartridge and its probably my favorite (or at least one of them!) Thanks Pard!

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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Rimfire McNutjob wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 4:02 pm Did Helmut finally add 300MP to QuickLoad? If so, I'll need to update. I've not updated in many years due to a lack of those newer Alliant powders.
The current version of Quick Load offers the following Alliant powders:

Red Dot
Green Dot
Bullseye
Unique
Herco
Power Pistol
Blue Dot
2400
RL-7
RL-10x
RL-12
RL-15, 17, 16, 25, 19, 22, 25, 26, 50 and 33.

The only powder that I know of that cannot be predicted is Alliant 300 MP for reasons already mentioned. It's a great program, loads of fun if you handload, very accurate, highly recommend it, and one of the best $150 dollars I ever spent.

Regards,

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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by ollogger »

When i got my 454 Alaskan it came with a box of factory 300 gr. freedom Arms ammo
on this box it says For Freedom arms only, well i thought the big Ruger will handle it ok
well i fired 3 with out any ill effects until i tried to push the emptys out, they did not budge, so i
had to pound them out with a wood dowel, not much long after that i pulled the bullets, dumped
the powder & added my H 110 to the case, recoil with the big Ruger Alaskan up to 1200 fps with 300 gr.
is not to bad for me, the Ruger BH with 45 c. Ruger only loads is to hard on my hand, mostly shoot 300 gr.cast
to about 950 fps, makes for alot more fun


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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Yup, would agree with everything you just said! Regards! -Tutt
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by piller »

.45 Colt in Ruger level loads is a powerful cartridge. Not a . 454, but still more than enough for most critters. Sort of like most diesel pickup motors.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by JimT »

piller wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:01 am .45 Colt in Ruger level loads is a powerful cartridge. Not a . 454, but still more than enough for most critters. Sort of like most diesel pickup motors.
When I got old enough to begin to develop a little sense I figured out that 1100/1200 fps in the .45 caliber with decent weight bullets (260 to 300 gr.) would take everything I am ever gonna hunt with that gun. It took me awhile to understand that .... :D
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by marlinman93 »

JimT wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:38 am
piller wrote: Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:01 am .45 Colt in Ruger level loads is a powerful cartridge. Not a . 454, but still more than enough for most critters. Sort of like most diesel pickup motors.
When I got old enough to begin to develop a little sense I figured out that 1100/1200 fps in the .45 caliber with decent weight bullets (260 to 300 gr.) would take everything I am ever gonna hunt with that gun. It took me awhile to understand that .... :D
Couldn't agree more!
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

CowboyTutt wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 8:31 pm
Rimfire McNutjob wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 4:02 pm Did Helmut finally add 300MP to QuickLoad? If so, I'll need to update. I've not updated in many years due to a lack of those newer Alliant powders.
The current version of Quick Load offers the following Alliant powders: ...
Did you realize that you answered this one question four times in this thread?

I just didn't understand your statement "defies the algorithms of QuickLoad" thinking you meant that 300MP was giving bad results ... but was now there in the database nonetheless.

Unfortunately, one can't simply go to the NECONOS site and see what's been added to the latest update. There's no powder list there ... which is frustrating. Best I can find is the powder list from 3.8 on the UK QuickLoad site.

I'm going to try to email Hartmut and see what the real scoop is on the large swath of missing Alliant powders. The many threads I find on the subject indicate that it's Alliant being unwilling to share the data.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Pisgah »

44shooter wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:13 pm Was it ever really popular though?
This is what I wonder, too. It just seems to me that there would not be enough fans out there to support the behemoths like .460 and .500. Among my considerable circle of shooting friends, 'nary a one has one (or even any particular interest in having one), although we all "know of" people who do. I'd love to know how (or if) S&W makes money on those models. Maybe the market is much larger than I can perceive, or perhaps development and manufacturing costs are just shockingly lower than we think...
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Rimfre, It looks like the Power Pro line of rifle powders is missing and Sport Pistol and BE-86 are missing, and of course 300 MP. I know why 300MP is missing as I explained, not sure about the others. Please let us know what you find out! I would appreciate it. Thanks, -Tutt
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by piller »

I push a hard lead 325 grain .45 Colt bullet at around 900 fps from my Blackhawk. So far, it has been accurate and has put a hole through anything I have tried it on. I would be willing to use it on black bears if needed. If I were in Alaska, the .454 Casull would look better. My . 480 Super Redhawk with 410 grain hard cast LBT Wide Flat Nose pushed to about 1,100 fps by H110 will let you know when they go off. Not much stops them.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Regarding the use of lubricants in the cases of the 454 Casull, Jim Taylor shared some things with me privately that I thought was worth passing on if only to prevent people, much like myself, from doing stupid things!
Good Andy. I am sure you understand that lubing the cartridges causes more rear case head thrust and will hammer the recoil plate/shield harder than normal. I am no expert at any of this but it's my opinion that there are not many guns that can take the pounding that full throttle 454 loads produce. Oiling the cases only increases that. I had a custom gun-maker send me his version of the 454 and it only took about 6 rounds of full-throttle stuff to start the barrel to unscrew, shearing the ejector rod housing screw. He never made another after I sent it back to him.
JIm, had my custom Raging Bull in 454 also begin to unscrew the barrel and misalign the front sight. Had it fixed last year by McPherson. Turns out it didn't have very much red lock tight from the factory to prevent it from rotating.

So don't try this case lubing thing at home, not worth the risks except maybe on a Freedom Arms gun!

Regards!

Jim, hope you don't mind me posting this! Just wanted to prevent any other people from making the same mistake in a different firearm!

-A-
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by piller »

I plan on leaving it to others to take guns apart with recoil. People have learned from doing such things, and we have had advancements from such things. Please remember, a .454 Casull is much more powerful than the Colts that a certain Cowboy used to overload on his way to coming up with the .44 Magnum.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

Rossi still catalogs the 92 in 454. LSI imports there LEVTAC-92 in 454.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Steve, I always welcome your responses and glad that Rossi still makes the '92 in 454 Casull. Hopefully the quality control and tolerances are better than my 2003 rifle. The 454 Casull in a small levergun that can hold 9 rounds, is really exceptional! It's 9 rounds of 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet. That should not and could not, be takin lightly. The 1:30 twist rate is optimal, even better than the the Big Horn leverguns.

Regards.

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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

For a good knock around carbine, one of the Rossis in .454 is really interesting as I have plenty of brass and bullets!

But I do have a pre-safety Rossi in .45 Colt that will really do what I need doing.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

CowboyTutt wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:36 am Steve, I always welcome your responses and glad that Rossi still makes the '92 in 454 Casull. Hopefully the quality control and tolerances are better than my 2003 rifle. The 454 Casull in a small levergun that can hold 9 rounds, is really exceptional! It's 9 rounds of 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet. That should not and could not, be takin lightly. The 1:30 twist rate is optimal, even better than the the Big Horn leverguns.

Regards.

-Tutt
Tutt,
You got one of the early one. They like most new ideas had some issues as you know. It took them about three years probably 2005 or so to get the kinks out. Like most mechanical things the first few years are trails seems. :(
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by Old Savage »

Full power 454s likely have limited actual application. Tutt, loaded some custom 360 Keiths in 45 Colt that chronographed 1350 out of my 20” Rossi. Seems like low end 45-70 to me.
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by 450 Fuller »

IN grizzly and general bear country, a practical 45 Colt in a Colt New Service or Ruger SA with BBL length limited to around 5- to 7 1/2 inches
is practical. A 300 gr bullet at 950 FPS will discourage most bears. Repeat shots may be necessary, so recoil is an actual issue with the 454 on up.
In the national parks, these revolvers pack well but are still handy.

For really serious bear medicine, I have two (2) pre-war Winchester
Model 71s in 450 Alaskan and 450 Fuller. With 400 gr bonded Kodiak bullets,
they will reliably outclass any revolver. BUT, its what you are carrying that becomes your "bear gun" when Old Ephraim comes calling.
With AK homestead land, for us its what really works: ATGATT (All the gear, all the time.)

Bear spray only works if the wind( and the bear) is headed away from you.


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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by CowboyTutt »

Kudos to Rimfire McNutjob. He did contact Hartmut at Quick Load. The response from Hartmut was that St. Marks, who makes the powders for Alliant, did not want to share their data with Hartmut at Quick Load and their new ball powders. Hartmut's computer algorithm cannot calculate "double deterrent" powders used to retard ignition of the powder. So that is why 300MP is not listed, he cannot predict for it, but it is very close to Lil' Gun and you could predict a load for it, then reduce by 10% and that would work safely I think. I can't speak for the other powders at this time.

-Tutt
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Re: The 454 Casull is gradually disappearing

Post by piller »

Sounds as if they might be getting close to some proprietary technical methods on another brand and do not want that found out.
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