A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

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AJMD429
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A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by AJMD429 »

.
A patient of mine who's kind of a 50-ish prepper type told me that he's not really that interested in firearms per se, but realizes they are a necessity, especially if there would ever be a long-term power outage or other social catastrophe. Their kids don't live at home anymore so it's just he and his wife, and he says they each have an Mossberg pump 20 gauge, a Ruger 10/22, an AR-15, a Ruger Mk-2 pistol, and a Glock 17. He has quite a bit of money and I'm sure could afford far more firearms than that, but he was asking my opinion on a more powerful and long range centerfire rifle that they could share. I made the comment that "as much as you are interested in your long-term food storage and all that I figured you'd have lots more firearms". He said "I figure you can only use one at a time, and that although they might make good things to trade, ammunition, is better because you can use if for small-change items" so he said he has always kept 10,000 22 LR, 223, and 9 mm on hand, and 1,000 each slugs, buckshot, and birdshot. So he has 33,000 rounds divided by 10 firearms, or 3,300 rounds per firearm.

I have some guns I probably only have 50 or 60 loaded rounds for and maybe a couple hundred cases I can reload... :( :oops: , although they are things like 218 Bee, or 375 Ruger, not 'mainstays' for survival.

I think the problem is that for many of us, it is the firearm that is interesting, either because of its history, it's mechanism, or just the pure fun of recreational shooting with it. Those of us who hunt don't really need very many rounds of ammunition for the annual harvest, so probably only the competitive shooters go through enough volume of ammunition to really feel compelled to have that much inventory. It's just hard to have $800 in your pocket and look at a really nice gun that cost $750, and not buy it, instead of 'blowing' $800 on a boring box of ammo.

Anyway, his rule of keeping 10,000 rounds of any rifle or pistol cartridge, and 1,000 rounds of each shotgun load he uses really makes sense, but I have been too weak-willed over the years, so wind up spending more money on the firearms than the stuff to feed them.

Those of you who are younger and just starting out with firearms as a hobby or obsession might want to keep this guy's principles in mind. If anything, his gun 'collection' is rather boring, but it is hard to argue that it's not extremely practical.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by ollogger »

I have plenty of ammo for most of my guns & keep reloading for the ones i would need to defend or feed me & the wife with, but the lowly old 12 ga. has only a few boxes as i never use it
on a long term dooms day case the deer & antelope would be shot off quickly, their is alot of ducks geese & sandhill
cranes here some more so in the winter the shot gun would soon be worth its weight in gold
i will be getting a good supply of 12 ga. ammo very soon!



Thanks Doc.



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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by piller »

It makes sense.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Sixgun »

Your patient is smart for a non gun person.......he is consolidating his firearms into varied well proven rounds and well proven guns and most importantly, keeping it KISS.....(keeping it simple stupid)

For a guy with his intellect. I'm sure he has the other necessities such as food, water,,blah..blah...

THERES A LOT TO LEARN FROM THE CURRENT UKRAINE CRISIS

NONE of it will be of any use without the number one necessity......which is where you live and security.

So that means if you live in the city in a wood frame house without a basement, you had better be prepared to join the long lines of people that are headed for the "filtration camps" as Putin calls them.

I've been watching this Ukraine catastrophe very close and everything I previously thought of has come to reality over there.....

The cities are bombed and the roads are blocked so if you live in the city, your F. ed......period.....and that goes for a non military crisis also.

Instead of going on for 37 pages, just use common sense in every need you have...follow the Redneck/Hillbilly and have pity for the highly educated, who only know one thing...what they were taught by their professor.

That AJMD guy is somethin' .......he's the only guy with the combination of redneck/hillbilly/educated/common sense/mechanical guy I've ever known.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Bill in Oregon »

You know, I don't have all that much ammo, or prepper stuff stored. That's partly because I struggle with this concept of post-apocalypse (Putin nuclear strike) survivalism. At this moment in history our broken nation is so riven by partisan/ideological divides that I have little hope we could all come together for each other like we did 20 years ago after 9/11. I hear buzz about "patriot" militia units planning denial of service attacks against fellow Americans -- hitting power, water supplies, highways and other infrastructure to ensure nobody can get to "my stuff." Just for starters, what would that do to the ill and elderly needing oxygen? Would these so-called patriots come knocking on doors asking what a family or an elderly couple need -- like the Salvation Army -- or would they come like hyper-partisan thugs looking for the weak to pillage, or, horrors, Democrats to murder based upon looted voting records?
I admit this is extreme and dystopian. But it's not an America I wish to be a part of, as it would be too painful to witness, I love her so much. I am an old Boomer from a time when everyone's dad fought in World War II, and I still believe we are "one nation under God" -- but no longer indivisible. I have no issue with being reasonably prepared -- and able to defend one's home in the short term against honest-to-gosh criminals. My great fear is that respect for the God-blessed principles that once made America "the shining city on the hill" will be quickly discarded in the rush to "survive" -- thrown away by generations whose brains have been damaged by the amorality of 12 seasons of "The Walking Dead."
I'll keep one bullet, and my Bible, and pray to my Nazarene that He will forgive me if it comes down to it.
In the book "Catch 22", about Americans in the Italian campaign in World War II Joseph Heller described an old man in Rome who lived entirely without values and principles except to survive. He told Captain Yossarian that "it is better to live on your knees than die on your feet."
I disagree.
Last edited by Bill in Oregon on Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Trailboss »

Doc AJ, the fella you speak of sounds pretty smart. I've been unable to follow his advise but have tried to do so. I have a certain number of dedicated rounds for every firearm I own but less than he recommended. My ammo reserve is based on the number of rounds reserved for each firearm so that I can hunt with them for the remainder of my life. I've never been a target shooter so I don't need as much ammo as some do. For my 375 H&H I keep 300 rounds. For a 22, I have 4000 set aside. I've always believed that a firearm without ammo is just a poorly shaped club.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Sixgun »

The thought of a military issue causing an apocalyptic atmosphere is far fetched....

Covid 19 was just a rehearsal....and a fair warning.......wait till Covid 25 comes.......Covid Mexico and Covid Central America is here along with Covid Inner City. Right now the Covid Democrat is the most alarming and can be dealt with this November....
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Ysabel Kid »

I try to have 1,000 rounds per gun of any common caliber. Plus a decent quantity of brass, bullets, primer and powder to feed all of them. I'm trying not to add additional calibers, but when I do, the first thing I do is get a set of reloading dies.

For some of the not-so-standard calibers, it depends on the gun(s) and actions. Single-shots and single actions don't require the same number as semi-automatics.

For each caliber I feed I have a "minimum inventory". I try to have more than that as a "shooting inventory". I do practice good inventory control - FIFO. Every box gets logged and gets my own inventory control sticker with the date purchased (or reload date).

I may have a bit of OCD... :wink:
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by OldWin »

Most of all that stuff is movie and video game fantasy.
The bigger the pile of stuff you have, the more you are influenced to stay with it in one place. That alone will get you killed. The animals will band together just long enough to take it. They will have convinced themselves the answer to all their problems lies in your pile of stuff. After they get it, they will kill each other over it, but that isn't going to help you.

Being able to move anywhere, at anytime, with no strings attached, and nothing to influence your decision other than your personal survival is what will keep you alive. The less you need and have, the better.

The truth is, a single, 18yo in perfect health has a way better chance than a 50-something with high BP and type 2 diabetes who is worried about his wife and family. It doesn't matter how big his pile of stuff is.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Sixgun »

Good point Jayster......I'm doomed....maybe that why my house is no longer a house but a compound.--00
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by OldWin »

Sixgun wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:58 pm Good point Jayster......I'm doomed....maybe that why my house is no longer a house but a compound.--00
I'm not saying something can't be defended, but the more it looks like you are defending something, the more thise without are going to think you have.
Look how people behave now..... with a full belly and a warm home to go to.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Sixgun »

Jay...there's a world of people who know what you and I have.....lots of people you deal with on a regular basis......the only way I could hide from it all would be to shave my A and walk backwards and move into a condo......I prefer my way...compound...let em think what they want as they know what they will get.....

Don't believe it's ever going to get that bad, unless a nuke gets released or people start dying on a massive scale from some disease and if that's the case, who wants to live?---00
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by OldWin »

Oh no doubt. People ask me that all the time. I tell them that 90% of it I would just walk away from. However, I wouldn't want to be the first one to start nosing around my place. And the second one won't find much of use. :D
Truth is, while I'm in excellent health and take no medications, I'm probably too old to beat the woods 24/7. Especially in winter while staying mobile.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Sixgun »

That's another thought...all these people have these "bug out bags"....like, WTF are they?....I want to stay home and make a stand if need be.....a basement is excellent shelter, especially if you know how to make a tunnel that leads into thick heavy brush....

Ahhh...dreaming again...watching too much of the Great Escape and that little Mexican guy, El Chapo....

THAT is funny....a tunnel a mile long and a motorcycle to take him away.....then he lets Sean Penn give him an interview and he gets caught.....
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by .45colt »

Build your house into the side of a big hill or small mountain, have enough food, water and fuel for the generators for a year. around here where You can't see more than 200 yards on a good day , a shotgun with slugs & buckshot (2k) and a 45-70 (1k) will fill the bill. a .22 with 5k rounds if there is any small game left around the houses . I'd like about 25 cases of cheap whiskey to barter with. then try to stay awake and vigilant long enough to stay alive. every lowlife will try to take what you have. I'd never be able to cut enough wood for heat and would need to stock pile at least 20 tons of hard coal.
the coyotes have killed all the small game in the woods and the big flocks of wild turkeys we had for years are gone now too. every piece of property around has elevated tree stands and what few deer there are would be gone in no time.
Like Oldwin said "Being able to move anywhere, at anytime, with no strings attached, and nothing to influence your decision other than your personal survival is what will keep you alive ". No country for Old Men.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by AJMD429 »

.
The young healthy resourceful smart ones would survive.

That's probably as it should be.

Hopefully us old guys raised decent young'uns who will be among the survivors.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Bill in Oregon »

.45Colt, your comment about having 25 cases of cheap whiskey to barter with reminded me of the advice given by George L. Herter many years ago in one of his wild and crazy books -- to keep on hand a stash of booze, tobacco and coffee to barter with. I believe it is still sound advice. :lol:
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by piller »

As we have all seen ammo and gun shortages recently, and the riots of BLM and the fascist AntiFa, then it is a good idea to have some supplies to be able to defend yourself and survive a night or two of the riots. I do not expect there to be a "Walking Dead" situation. I am Type 1 diabetic, and am tied to a supply of insulin and needles. Supply lines get interrupted at times. It is a good idea to have a couple of months of stuff like that if you can.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by JimT »

The only firearm I have is an RG in .22 Long Rifle. It is a big powerful gun. I have 1 box of 50 rounds and a half box that I've been using for practice shooting for the last 6 months. All this talk of stocking up has gotten me worried so I went to Wal Mart and bought a huge box of ONE HUNDRED ROUNDS! Crazy. So much ammo. Now I am worried someone might see it and turn me in for having an arsenal!
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by marlinman93 »

If I was only thinking of my guns as a tool like your patient does, then I'd agree that only a handful is needed to survive. Since that's not my case I need ammo for all of them, but only a lot of ammo for some of them.
I don't have 10,000 rds. of anything except .22LR, and only have that because I've lived through various shortages. Other calibers or guns I consider self defense purpose I keep larger quantities, but not 10,000 rds. Since I reload I figure no conflict will last 10,000 rds., as it will either be over, or I'll be dead before that. So I can reload when I need to replenish, so loading supplies are more important to me than how much ammo I have loaded.
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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by cavelamb »

I didn't know it was a rule.
I thought it was just a good idea.

800 round in each box of Nine (repack boxes fit beautifully)
1000 rounds of 45 in the 30 cal cans.
A little light on 556 - 600 rounds per box.

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Re: A rule I hadn't heard but wish I had heard and obeyed...

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Having some ammo set aside makes sense.....but the stockpiling of huge amounts probably does not unless you are a competitive shooter or shooting is your hobby.

Its my hobby and part of what keeps me out of the therapist's office. So I shoot a great deal and I don't worry too much about it. Its not like I have a sportscar, or a boat, or a hot young girlfriend(each of which is more expensive than my hobby).

What makes no sense to me is those who stockpile ammo, but don't shoot any of it because it is so valuable. You can't eat it and I think it is a mistake to trade it off to someone who might use it on you.
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