Shorter barrels

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Scott Tschirhart
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Shorter barrels

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Once upon a time, I rode around with a 16 inch Model 94 SRC in a patrol car. Over the years, I have taken that little carbine everywhere and it has a lot of finish wear from honest work. The reason I went to this gun over an AR is that I think a 170 gr Silvertip hits harder and would punch through intermediate cover better. Moreover, that 16 inch gun was so easy to carry and manuver with. Magazine capacity was not the issue that it seems to be today and I still think this would be a viable police gun and I reach for it before any other rifle.

Moving forward I had a time when I was shooting black powder cartridges a lot. Particularly in Sharps rifles. I took a .50-90 to Alaska in 1999 with a 32 inch barrel and discovered that I missed my shorter .30-30 in that thick brush. So, when I got back, I ordered a new Sharps in .45-70 with an 18 inch barrel. Mark Hargrove promptly christened that rifle "Big Nose Kate" and I cannot tell you how much powder I burned in that short gun.

When Ruger came out with its version of the Scout Rifle, I got one and I have killed more game with that short rifle than any rifle I have ever owned.

I'm the same way with revolvers. I don't really care for anything over 5.5 inches and I prefer 4 to 4 3/4 inch barrels.

The only place I really like longer barrels are in shotguns. My bird gun is a Remington 1187 with a 28 inch barrel, but I don't carry it around a lot. It's heavy but it sure swings with the doves.

So, what do you like for barrel length?
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Pisgah »

I've always had a long-barreled rifle or two, mainly because I always had at least one spot I hunted that might -- just maybe -- provide a 400-yard shot. I'd lug a long gun in to a stand, settle in with my binoculars, and generally eventually shoot a deer at 55 yards...

It didn't take too long before it dawned on me that just about every deer I was shooting was within 200 yards -- heck, most within 100 -- and NONE were as far as 300 yards. In a flash (after years of blindness) I saw that an 11-pound vaulting pole was perhaps not the most appropriate tool for the job at hand.

I've driven across large chunks of the central and western parts of this land and, for sure, there's plenty of acreage where a long, powerful rifle makes absolute sense. But I believe most hunters in North America would benefit by shorter, handier, and a bit less-powerful rifles for most of their hunting. And please trust me, when you've been at it long enough (I'll be 69 in 2 weeks), the lighter load is a delight. I don't really want to carry anything more than my CZ 7.62x39 carbine, and that is fine because on the tract I am hunting there's no shot anywhere over 200 yards. Realistically, that describes a whole lotta hunting territory...
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Ruger makes a short bolt gun called the American I think. I have one in .300 Blackout and it weighs like you would expect a .22 rimfire. It is a killer within any range I can find on the ranch.
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JimT
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by JimT »

I generally chop my rifles off ....
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Savage semi-auto .22 LR
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Marlin 336 30-30
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Ruger American .22 Magnum
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Mosin Nagant

and shotguns
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20 ga.
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12 ga.
shotgun2.JPG
12 ga.

They are just easier for me to use.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by gamekeeper »

I have always favoured short barrels but my muzzleloading 12 gauge has a 31" barrel and it swings real nice or it too would get the chop.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by piller »

My Marlin Guide Gun is plenty for anything I have ever done.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by CowboyTutt »

It depends some on the cartridge chambering for me, and how long the receiver is, but I have two levers with 20" round barrels and it seems a good compromise.

The CZ550 in 375 H&H AI really benefits from the 25" barrel.

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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Sarge »

If I'm going to carry a revolver much it's going to be 4-5 inches tops. I have always favored the Commander over the Government Model. My most used 45 these days is butt-ugly little Springfield XD Mod2 with a 3.3" barrel. It just don't know it's ugly and if I do my part, groundhogs & bigger inside 75 yards are toast.

I've had 16" lever actions and for reasons I can't explain, a 20" barrel works better for me. I just seem to hold them steadier and shoot them better. I also like 20" bolt actions if they're 30 caliber or bigger. I think the three farthest shots I've made on deer were 315 yards (cut down 670 Winchester 30-06) 238 yards (peep sighted 94 Winchester) and 175-180 yards with, of all things a 580 Series Mini 14 using stock sights and a 2800 fps/65 grain Sierra SP reload. I didn't have a decent rest for any of them, which drove me to practice only from field positions once a gun is zeroed.

I lived with short shotguns so long I practically had to re-learn wing shooting when I retired. Shotgun hunting seasons here mean lousy weather here so a couple of years ago, I picked up a 22" Mossberg 930 JM Pro. Everything steel on it got painted flat black and I have a regular forend cap and mag spring, which turns it into a normal 22" hunting shotgun. I shoot it as well as anything on the place.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Drawdown »

I believe in both according to use. In a military or police, urban-jungle combat, SHORT! Bill Jordan proved that with his 4" S&W 357! Marines have went to the A4 (I believe that's the model#) short barreled AR's. My Kimber 45 is 4", I believe 28oz. And I hardly know I got it on until I sit down. And it's loaded with 230gr fmj for at home, and 255gr Underwood Hardcast + loads everytime I go in woods.
Bears run here like stray dogs used to. And I spend a lot time alone in mountains, and I've had 2 bad close calls with bears. No I'm not afraid them in least when I see them, around them a lot. But I can hardly hear, and a blackbear is the quietest animal I ever seen. One incident I leaned to look around a tree I was leaning against, and was face to face with one just as it was fixing to walk by. Now it turned out funny, scared the Bear more than me, but I also know had that been a female with cubs right there, could've took half my face off before I could even reacted, she was that close. And one more time one had me ready to draw, blackbears aren't always the harmless critters they say! 99% time ya, BUT!
Wasn't long before I got this Kimber and it's perfect for self defense!
But if I was going to deer hunt, my 6" S&W Mod 19 for sure! And longer barrels do make accuracy easier to achieve. Not mandatory, and in everything exceptions come into play!
I wish I had a 4" Mod 19, my favorite handgun!
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It has the night sights, few other custom shop features. Cost me $300 and lots ammo with it. It's already showing wear since 2017, but I didn't need a safe queen.
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Last edited by Drawdown on Sat Mar 26, 2022 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Drawdown »

Emptied 3 mags as fast as I could aim standing off hand.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by mickbr »

I have always preferred long barrels myself, the shortest I have owned is 20". Easier on my ears, the dogs ears, balances better for me. I actually get frustrated with some guns only coming in short barrels these days, especially takedowns. In the day even many takedown guns had a 24" barrel option.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by 44shooter »

I tend to favor shorter barrels but have some long barreled shotguns and a few 24 in barreled rifles. I do like 1911s in five inch and single action revolvers around five and half. Double actions I prefer 3 to 4. I have snubbies and a six inch 586 though. My favorite is a four inch Nframe 45 acp. My MKII has a 6 7/8 inch barrel because we had a silly game reg that required 22s to have at least six inch barrel for game. It’s excessively long for me now but it’s easy to shoot well. The 10 inch ones shoot like rifles if you have a good rest. Center fire autos I have a variety. Most fall from 3 to 4 1/2 if you think about it though

In my youth I bought an Express 870 turkey model specifically because I got tired of toting a long shotgun through briars and vines squirrel hunting or kicking up rabbits. It has a 21 inch Remchoke barrel and is pretty handy for a repeater. I can’t hit much flying with it though. Still it’s a good turkey, small game, HD gun. I usually take something longer on dove shoots

With rifles I like 18-20 for 22 and most lever actions. I have mostly longer barrels in my levers though, whether from running across good deals or inheriting my granddaddy’s M64 from my dad. My first one a basic Marlin 1894 44 mag is still the handiest. I’d like to try a trapper though. With bolts I like short actions with 20 to 22 inch barrels best. They seem handy enough for any style of hunting around here and still can reach out a bit. I have plenty of long actions too with both 22 and 24 inch barrels. I wouldn’t want anything longer except maybe on a single shot.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by OldWin »

It's strange, because for living vastly different terrain, our firearms tastes are quite similar. Even having many of the same guns. Except for the shotguns, where I prefer a short barrel also. As long as I have screw in chokes. It's very thick here.
I think there is an argument to be made here. For most people, most of the time, ranges where guns are actually used hasn't changed much in over a hundred years. For all the hoopla over new super cartridges and shooting deer at 2 miles, it isn't a big factor. This seems to prove out with people who shoot more often also. In my observation, the folks obsessed with power and range actually shoot little.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by JimT »

OldWin wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:00 pm In my observation, the folks obsessed with power and range actually shoot little.
The sad fact is most of the population live in cities where there is no place to go shoot. Much of the population never sees "country" unless they are taking a trip. Quite a lot of the "gun people" never fire their guns more than a few times a year. I grew up on ranches and farms. Our nearest neighbor was 5 miles away. That sound horrible to a lot of our population these days. I miss those days but am grateful to be able to live in the country and enjoy it. And teaching the grandkids about it. We have had racoons getting after our chickens, so I put out the trap and this morning had a old fat possum in it. I got the grandsons and showed them the possum. They examined him until they were satisfied, then we took him toward the river and turned him loose. Watching him waddle away reminded me of how I look these days if I try to run! If I had to live in an apartment in the city I think I would feel like I was in prison.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by piller »

Jim, it is great that you are teaching your Grandkids things like that. You never know just how far those lessons will carry.

I haven't shot anything over about 100 yards in a long time. Long range cartridges are not needed for my hunting. If you want to get something to shoot at 400 yards, get it and have fun.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

OldWin wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:00 pm In my observation, the folks obsessed with power and range actually shoot little.
I think that's probably right. I know guys who are just crazy about getting super accurate bolt guns in the latest 6.5 or .338 Lapua....not saying that these guns don't have their place, but if you shoot less than a hundred rounds a year, it seems like a waste.

I shot more than a hundred rounds this morning.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by JimT »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:07 pm I shot more than a hundred rounds this morning.
A guy I knew and who worked with family found out I liked to shoot. He said he did and I invited him over. He brought a nice 1911 and about a half a box of shells. I asked what he was gonna do with those. He said he was going to shoot some of them. I started laughing.

After that first range session he wanted me to teach him to reload. Eventually he got into bullet casting, Cowboy Action Shooting, prairie dog hunting and now has 3 safes full of guns. The reloading room he built is really cool. His wife looks at me out of the corners of her eyes and says it is all my fault.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

JimT wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:14 pm His wife looks at me out of the corners of her eyes and says it is all my fault.
Well Jim, it kind of is. This is my therapy and it keeps me out of bars and pool halls (though I wouldn't know where to find either one these days).
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by JimT »

That's true ... but he asked for it. :lol: And truth be told, she don't mind.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by 6pt-sika »

I’ve always liked Remington Model 7’s be it 18 , 20 or 22 inches as well as Mannlicher Schoenauer MC/MCA full stocked carbines and have killed piles of deer with both brands . In shotguns i in earlier years always enjoyed what I called “bird length” barrels , meaning short for grouse quail that kinda thing mostly 24 and 26 inch with 28” on the outside . And I still like them for walk up shooting . But I’ve also gotten quite the liking for 30 and 32 inch shotgun barrels for clays and tower shoots . But I shoot a heck of a lot of flying targets over the course of a year be it feathered or clay . A couple pics of deer with MS rifles .
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by 6pt-sika »

piller wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:37 pm I haven't shot anything over about 100 yards in a long time. Long range cartridges are not needed for my hunting. If you want to get something to shoot at 400 yards, get it and have fun.
I can relate to the 400 yard thing . In my log book of the about 350 deer I’ve taken in my lifetime the average length of shot for the entire bunch is 42 yards . Had a couple over 200 yards in Montana thirty years ago , and to be honest the longest shot I’ve ever taken at a deer was three years ago at 9PM one night with thermal optics and that was only 287 yards . Now with all that being said I have five rifles set up for 400 or so yard shots . My 26 Nosler has taken three deer and the furthest was 75 yards . The 6.5-06’s I had or have , have never missed a deer and never shot one over 150 yards and so on .
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Oldncrusty »

I like the long 24-27 inch barrels on my old .22s, Win 67,s,, 69's, Rem 41's, 511, etc. They balance really well, and still dont weigh much. The standard 22" bolt action center fire is OK, but I'm leaning toward shorter since I discovered the wonders of lever actions. My Model 70 Featherweight now feels like an "Overweight" due to old age. A Win 94 20" or 18.5" Texan is now my " mountain rifle". Am itching for a 94 trapper.
Handguns are 3-6" for me. A 3-4" revolver or Commander for packin. SA are 4 5/8 so far, but I would probly pick a 5 1/2 if buying a Magnum. Shotguns are best for me at 26 or under, but I dont shoot trap, or hunt geese.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Scott, that looks about perfect. The levergun was the "assault weapon" of its age. I still content that as long as you don't need to lay down a LOT of suppressive fire, it is easily the equal of any AR-15 for aimed fast shots. :D
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I've had a couple of short-barreled 94s in .44 Magnum and .45 Colt (and yes, lifter issues) and a Rossi 92 in .357. They sure did handle like dreams, but in my hands they were close-range guns. There sure is a place for them and I wish I had one in the safe.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Grizz »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:56 am I've had a couple of short-barreled 94s in .44 Magnum and .45 Colt (and yes, lifter issues) and a Rossi 92 in .357. They sure did handle like dreams, but in my hands they were close-range guns. There sure is a place for them and I wish I had one in the safe.
i have a 94 AE in 357 that's accurate, and a dream to carry the 16" barrel down. the guide gun is only 2 inches longer, but noticeably more annoying in the woods with one hand carry barrel down.
as far as range and utility go, i think of the carbine as overlapping the range of my revolver, and compare the contact velocities, sort of like extending the hand gun out 60 yards or so . . .

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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by OldWin »

Grizz wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:53 am
Bill in Oregon wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 6:56 am I've had a couple of short-barreled 94s in .44 Magnum and .45 Colt (and yes, lifter issues) and a Rossi 92 in .357. They sure did handle like dreams, but in my hands they were close-range guns. There sure is a place for them and I wish I had one in the safe.
i have a 94 AE in 357 that's accurate, and a dream to carry the 16" barrel down. the guide gun is only 2 inches longer, but noticeably more annoying in the woods with one hand carry barrel down.
as far as range and utility go, i think of the carbine as overlapping the range of my revolver, and compare the contact velocities, sort of like extending the hand gun out 60 yards or so . . .

Grizz makes an excellent point here.
This is one of my biggest reasons for packing a Trapper other than hunting. Where I used to woods loaf with a big bore revolver, I find the Trapper a huge improvement. It's not riding on my hip, it is in my hand or on my shoulder if I need it quick, and like Grizz said, range is greatly improved over a handgun.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Grizz wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:53 am as far as range and utility go, i think of the carbine as overlapping the range of my revolver, and compare the contact velocities, sort of like extending the hand gun out 60 yards or so . . .

I found in police work that a rifle generally is used, if at all, at fairly short ranges. Even police snipers are generally set up pretty close. As the range increases there is too much to go wrong.

Moreover, its kinda hard to get mad at someone who is outside of conversational distance....so most shootings are up close.
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by 6pt-sika »

There was a time I thought a relatively short (21-23”) drilling would be about the perfect hunting weapon for my eastern woods . I could keep buckshot in one barrel and Turkey shot in the other while of course the rifle was loaded as well . And I still like drilling’s but not as much in practical application . It’s kinda important to me that a rifle or shotgun feels good in my hands and any of the drilling’s I’ve owned or messed with didn’t feel as nice to me as a side by side shotgun or short barreled bolt action rifles .
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Griff »

I'm with you Scott. Shorter barrels are the coolest. My favorite pistol is my 4-¼" Combat Commander. Next are my SAAs with the 4-¾". As a deputy in SoCal, our department issue was a S&W 10-4. When I bought my own duty gun, I got a smokin' deal on a nickel mdl 19 & 4" bbl. When my infatuation with that piece had run its course, I went with a mdl 65 with a 4" bbl. Our qualification course consisted of 60 rounds for a 300 point score... I could never beat the range master with my "X" count, but I routinely tied his score... usually with a mid- to high- 30s X count. Like you, when I became a deputy here in north Texas, in a semi-rural county I felt a short carbine would be a better long gun. Surprised the heck out of me when I found my 20" mdl 94 carbine fit the shotgun rack perfectly. If I'd of had a Trapper, I probably would've used it. My mdl 94 trapper has become my go to gun for coyote control. My bird gun came with a 28" barrel, but I probably spent a lot more time shooting skeet with a 26" skeet barrel on it. Even used that bbl hunting a few times. My favorite cowboy action rifle wears an 18-½" half round/half octagon barrel. I bought the rifle because it had the shortest barrel that would hold 10 45 Colt rounds, even with a 225 grain TC bullet seated in the crimp groove. I recently installed a Cowboy45Special carrier so it now holds 13 rounds of this 45ACP length cartridge! I'm anxiously awaiting a Uberti 1860 steel framed with an 18-½" bbl, because it should hold 10 Cowboy45Specials for the cowboy action game I enjoy playing. Been over a year since I ordered it... Patience might be a virtue... but it sure is painful!!!
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Re: Shorter barrels

Post by Grizz »

i agree that shorty barrels are easy packing. i've made meat with the 4" Model 66. but i wound up hunting most of the time with a 10" SBH 44. it had the performance of a carbine, but gave me the option of using both hands when descending the root systems of trees in steep going.

the best thing about it is that with the bead front sight and peep rear sight, for my eyes at that time, it was the fastest acquisition and straightest shooting gun i owned. the bead was the bullet, it was very reliable, and easy going. as long as i kept the muzzle taped to keep the muskeg out of it when sliding down the slippery slope. :)

i usually had it in hand when in the woods. very handy.
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