Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

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AJMD429
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Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by AJMD429 »

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The recent suicide of a patient got me to thinking about something that I don't think gets communicated well to patients. It is particularly applicable to the rednecks and other 'rugged individualists' who form the bulk of our gun culture, outdoor culture, and other people who eschew 'pills' in favor of 'natural' treatment.

Depression is viewed by many as a 'weakness', and there are certainly some who respond to depression or any other life-hurdle by rolling-over, giving-up, and wanting someone else to fix their life for them. I think we all know that doesn't generally go well, whether you're just a naive college-kid who got too far in debt going down an academic rabbit-hole, or an alcoholic who has to face the reality that the only one who can climb back into life via the AA's 12-step program is themself.

Anyway, I think we as doctors/scientists take some things for granted and as foundational knowledge, that the public really doesn't realize, and likewise, the public often has a jaded and cynical view of the 'science' that Big Pharma has set up that so many doctors can't see beyond.

The REALITY with 'depression' (and 'anxiety', and 'obsessive compulsive disorder' and 'post-traumatic-stress-disorder' and whatever other catch-phrase best describes the patient's own personal challenge) is that it is NOT just a 'character flaw' or an inability to deal with reality. It is a very tangible, documentable, and REAL series of enzymatic issues, epigenetic phenomena, and chemical imbalances, happening in the environment of a specific genetic inheritance, as affected by specific life challenges.

As such, it is no different than say a person who is exposed to an unusual level of toxins due to their job or whatever, and that affects some people more than others, based on their genetics, their enzymatic state, and epigenetics (epigenetics is a series of tangible and dynamic changes in the way existing genes are read versus ignored, depending on environmental influences, and these changes can last a lifetime - and even be passed on to the next generation). So expose a whole crew to something, and some might get sick, some even die, and others barely notice an effect. Some will be ill for 24 hours, and others have lifelong changes, or even bear children with issues reflecting their parent's toxic exposure. None of that is 'weakness' and none of it is something that can be gotten through by just 'being tough'.

A woman who was sexually abused as a child isn't just being 'weak' if she doesn't regain a healthy and happy and functional life as she grows up - she has measurable, tangible, REAL chemical changes, alterations of neurotransmitters, and PERMANENT epigenetic changes that affect her chemistry and physiology going forward. If she was pregnant when horrible things happened, her child will have REAL chemical changes, alterations of neurotransmitters, and permanent epigenetic changes as well. Yes, she can compensate for those changes to a great extent, and yes she can indeed have a happy and normal life in the long run, but she will NOT get there simply by 'being tough', and it will very likely require a comprehensive life-approach involving not just 'drugs', but also not just 'counseling' or not just 'natural supplements' or not 'JUST' anything.....it will require ALL of the above.

How do you deal with a toxic exposure, or an environmental condition that messes up these things...? You use diet, supplements, and antidotes of various sorts. And yes, sometimes you use 'drugs'. Someone who has been exposed to a toxic dose of something and refuses the antidote because it is a 'drug' is a fool, and may be a dead fool before long. Some 'drugs' are complex synthetic chemicals that we don't even know how they work, and some are ordinary vitamins given at therapeutic doses, or any number of entities between these extremes. Some are even vitamins that have to be modified synthetically because the patient lacks an enzyme needed for the vitamin to work, either due to genetics, or due to the effect of a toxin, or the effect of some other environmental stress.

Just being in a 'pill' or from a 'drug company' doesn't mean much clinically; all it means is that in order to obtain the particular entity involved, somebody had to 'make' it, which likely means it comes in a pill, in a bottle, and from a pharmacy. That's NOT a 'bad' thing, any more than getting an antidote for a poison from a pharmacy would be a bad thing.

You use WHAT WORKS.

In this case, a man had lost his wife after her long illness, and he was "not a pill person". Having seen several patients DIE over the past couple years from CoVid because they "didn't like to take pills" so refused to take even the zinc and quercetin that could have benefitted them, I've gotten less patient with the "I don't believe pills are the answer" attitude - I do understand the cynicism and reluctance to succumb to our 'pill culture' where so many people do NO diet, NO counseling, NO prayer, NO supplements, NO exercise, and just want a 'wonder drug', but the opposite attitude is just as dangerous, just as silly, and just as deadly.

There ARE medications that help depression, and yes, some of them are the 'old kind' that blunt all feelings and make you a zombie like in One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest, but those are seldom even considered these days. Most of the medications we now use are ones that correct enzymatic deficiencies that are genetic, or have been epigenetically induced, some compensate for receptor geometry that would be ok with a 'normal' level of stress, but cannot handle a high-stress environment, and some enable the patient to absorb or properly metabolize ordinary nutrients and vitamins in their diet that they happen to be unable to use (and even a 'perfect' diet completely fails to benefit patients if they fail to take the 'pills' that may be needed to fix such a situation).

Depression is no different than hypertension in that regard - yes, some people can lower their blood pressure 'naturally' by meditating, altering their potassium/sodium balance, or eating more omega-3 fatty acids. Others have ACE receptors that are crappy, renal arterial stretch receptors that have deteriorated with age, or other issues, and will never, EVER, get normal blood pressure without 'drugs'. They can do all the 'natural' stuff they want, and can virtue-signal to their friends about how they are 'avoiding drugs' and doing everything 'naturally' - AND they can go on to have a nice 'natural' stroke, and drool on themselves for a few years before dying of pneumonia or pressure ulcers from sitting in a wheelchair all that time. What a great thing they avoided 'drugs'... :roll:

This gentleman had a supportive family and could have lived many years of healthy and happy life, and been of benefit to his kids and grandkids, but was too stubborn to 'take pills' because he thought that a person shouldn't need pills to be happy. Well, God gave us FEET too, so I guess we shouldn't need to wear shoes, then, should we...??? Try going without shoes for a week. I think God gave us the intelligence to invent shoes, and a society where some people make their living making shoes for the rest of us. God did NOT give us the tough feet of animals, nor did He give us the innate sense many animals have to go eat the right plant for what ails them....but he did give us knowledge of pharmacology and physiology, and there are pharmacies where we can get the right things to help us when we need them, just like shoes.

The goal SHOULD be to live as long a life, and as functional a life, and as happy a life, as possible, for our own sake as well as that of our family, friends, and community. Doing that without 'pills' is no more virtuous than it would be to do it without shoes.... :roll:

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Last edited by AJMD429 on Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JimT
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by JimT »

Thanks Doc.
A good dose of common sense.
Of course for some that's harder to take than pills. :)
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by AmBraCol »

Thanks, Doc. There's also the matter of learning to pay attention to our thoughts and to redirect them in a healthy way. When Jesus directed us to forgive, it wasn't necessarily to benefit the forgiven but rather the forgiver. When the Bible tells us that it is more blessed to give than to receive, it is due to the impact that the act of giving has on our mental processes and the chemical response within our brain to that act. Also when we are directed to "be transformed by the renewing of your minds" (Romans 12:2) it's about developing healthy thought processes that in turn result in a happier, more balanced life. But, as Jim points out above, some folks have just as much trouble with accepting common sense advice as they do taking life saving pills.
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by reivertom »

I know people that have some phobias, OCD, and some with emotional problems that would benefit from seeing a doctor for treatment, but they won't do it because the way "red flag" laws are being pushed in some places. I know they aren't a danger to themselves or others, and they are more worried that they will lose their gun rights than living with the problems. I can't say I blame them in the current atmosphere in Washington, DC.
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by Sixgun »

Doc,
Thank you or taking the time to explain a lot of what most do not understand. When the Good Lord made you, he connected all of the docs...eeerrrr....dots :D

We here believe in some medications, mostly for important maladies like BP, etc. if I listened to my doc, I would on 200 pills.....and I'm healthy...in fact, he went as far to say I'm the healthiest senior citizen he has....Geeze, I feel for the other 99%.

Making this up......My doc, "well Six, your blood tests came back and your two points over for sugar and 1 point above for lead exposure so how about if I get you some medication?"....me, "no thanks Doc, just BP meds and the stuff that keeps me from punching people in the face."

The above is what makes most people untrusting of prescribed medication.

My wife and I are increasingly becoming more reclusive, mostly with this Covid thing and the contradictory solutions. I'd rather die bull headed than risk my relatively good health with blood clots....

Thanks again for for extreme knowledge.....it sinks in......and works!.....I haven't punched anyone in almost a month!-----006
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by AJMD429 »

.
Each person's approach and solutions will be different. The important thing is that the dialogue has to happen.

I remember a case where a young 30-year-old mother of four who had an organic garden and goat herd an elevated LDL particle count with a normal LDL cholesterol. That seldom responds to even the most strict diet, but responds easily to a low dose of a statin. But because many doctors over prescribe statins patients are resistant to taking them, sometimes for legitimate reasons, and other times due to irrational fear. Anyway, I knew she wouldn't want to try medication so we tried various diets for over a year before she finally realized she needed medication, in part because she had a relative her same age actually have a heart attack.

The same day I saw her I saw an over the road trucker who had really pretty good numbers and would probably just need to decrease his starch intake by eating fewer french fries. He took one look at me and said "Doc, I'm not gonna change a thing; you need to just give me a pill...". He was being honest and I followed his advice. :D
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by stretch »

It's true - if you need the medicine, take the medicine.

On the other hand, our American medical/pharmaceutical/shareholder community
is far more interested in making big profit for the shareholders, than making
Americans happy, healthy, and improving the length and quality of their lives.
So, medicine is the go-to for the PAs and docs who work for the HMOs and the other
corporate entities.

There are exceptions........ (Yes, I'm talkin' about YOU, Doc! :lol: )

One has to take the time and trouble to understand the whole person in order
to effectively treat symptoms. It's also a HUGE uphill battle to get folks to unlearn
the nutrition propaganda and a lifetime of bad habits in order to help themselves.

I'm a type 2 diabetic, for instance. I take no medicine and my A1C is around 6. Not
perfect, but not bad. ( It was 13.5! :shock: ) What's my treatment? Diet and exercise.
I spent 2 years figuring out what I could and couldn't eat.
I'm disciplined, but I could be more disciplined, and my numbers would be a little bit better.
Will I have to take medicine as I get older? Maybe... Age won't help, but on the other hand
I sit on my backside all day flying a laptop. When I have a couple of weeks off, my numbers
improve, because I'm more active. We'll see. Everybody's a little bit different.

People with mental health issues are an under served community in this country - chiefly
because there's no money in it for the insurance companies. A simple fracture has a pretty much
finite price tag - even bypass surgery is pretty routine and predictable if there are no major complications.
Mental health issues can be remediated in weeks or months, or go on for a lifetime. Big risk for insurers.
And then, as Doc mentioned, there is the stigma of asking for help. Ya can't pull yourself out of severe
depression. It's as debilitating as a broken back.

Thanks for bringing the subject up, Doc. Not really levergun-related, but an interesting and needed
discussion nonetheless.

-Stretch
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by JimT »

stretch wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:17 am Thanks for bringing the subject up, Doc. Not really levergun-related, but an interesting and needed
discussion nonetheless. -Stretch
And it can be levergunner-related at times!
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I totally agree Doc and thanks for sharing.

After my first shooting as a police officer (I was very young, I believe 21 years old) I suffered terribly but was afraid to seek help. I probably suffered for years from what we now call PTSD but it went untreated.

When going through a divorce, I had a good friend advise me to go see a counsellor. This was the best advice I have ever recieved and it probably kept me from going down a very destructive path. I had gotten into a loop where it seemed that nothing I could do would ever be good enough and if you think that way long enough it becomes true.

He helped me work out of a dark place and my Church family did the rest. I personally will not hesitate to ask for help if I start down that path, and the help might just be in the form of a pill.
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by gamekeeper »

I guess I am lucky that I have never been really depressed no matter what life has thrown at me. It has made it hard for me to understand how depression affects others but I am nowadays aware that living with depression is debilitating for those that suffer it. Thank you Doc for a thought provoking and helpful post.
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Re: Rednecks, Geeks, Naturalists, and Doctors

Post by piller »

I am one of those very very few who have genetic reasons for avoiding most medications. Having been genetic tested, I am completely missing 2 of the most active liver chemicals. 2C19 and 3A4 are missing from my genetic makeup. That makes Tylenol and statin drugs deadly to me. ODDLY, it makes me highly resistant to Bubonic Plague and Hepatitis B. Since Tylenol and statin drugs are more common in our world, it makes it a risk of death for me to see ANY Doctor trained at Baylor College of Medicine. Last Baylor trained Doc I went to was screaming at me to just take the statin drugs because my cholesterol was at 151. He told me that he didn't know and didn't care about the lab report I was showing him.
When my U.T. trained Doctor with his Master's Degree in Genetic Medicine was trying to get my insurance company to pay for the test, the CDC stepped in and paid because they wanted to keep my samples on file for testing. None of the Baylor trained Quacks I have seen since (Insurance forced me to them) we're competent enough to understand the lab report.

If your Doctor is not listening, call your insurance company and ask for a patient advocate. Have the patient advocate help you get a good Doctor like AJMD429 who listens and thinks. You will live longer and healthier if you do.
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