Rolling Block conundrum

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Oldncrusty
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Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

I picked this up a couple years ago for a song but I still havent been able to figure out what story it's trying to tell me. The barreled action is Remington stamped with no martial markings or foreign proofmarks that I can find. Havent removed the forestock however. AFAIK, the furniture is Danish marked. Wood to metal fit is lousy. I had the chamber cast a while back, and the smith's verdict was .44-90 Rem Special. I havent been able to figure out if this is a foreign contract gun, or made here and restocked with surplus furniture, or... I thought I would see if anyone here might be able to shed a little light on this ones history. Thanks for looking
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Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

More pics
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Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

A few more
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2ndovc
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by 2ndovc »

That is a Danish crown on the barrel band. The stock disk looks correct for a Scandinavian rifle, but the rear sight is wrong for an 1867/ 11.7mm. There should also be some proof marks on the receiver and barrel.

Interesting for sure.

jb 8)
Last edited by 2ndovc on Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

It is a mystery all right, especially if actually chambered for .44-90 Remington Special -- always a sporting or target cartridge and highly unusual to "never" in a standard military round barrel with military iron sights.The forend does not match the barrel and should be a three-band.
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marlinman93
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by marlinman93 »

Betting it's not actually a .44-90, unless somebody reamed out the chamber. The gun appears to likely be a Husqvarna, and the early ones had their actions built by Remington, and then Husqvarna assembled the rest of the guns. I believe that was the first 10,000 actions Sweden purchased?
More than likely it began life as an 11.7 Danish, and got brought back to the US and opened up to this chambering. It also appears the forearm was modified at some point as they were either a single band carbine, or a full length forearm rifle. Looking at the closeup of the forearm I can still see where it's a little dull from when it was cut down and sanded smooth.
Still a very neat Rolling Block, and a piece of history!
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Vall, my guess would be that it was chambered in .43 Spanish and then reamed to .44-90. Or it could be that the smith who did the chamber cast was unfamiliar with the very long throat in many of the rolling blocks chambered in .43 Spanish. Crusty, have you slugged the bore? If it is .439, you very likely do have a .43 Spanish, which is nearly identical with .44-77 Sharps/Remington, but with the latter having a slighltly larger .446 barrel.
Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

Thanks folks for your kind assistance!
Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:37 am
Vall, my guess would be that it was chambered in .43 Spanish and then reamed to .44-90. Or it could be that the smith who did the chamber cast was unfamiliar with the very long throat in many of the rolling blocks chambered in .43 Spanish. Crusty, have you slugged the bore? If it is .439, you very likely do have a .43 Spanish, which is nearly identical with .44-77 Sharps/Remington, but with the latter having a slighltly larger .446 barrel.
I probably should have started at the beginning. My "old" gunsmith (60+ years in business) did a cast for me first. Just a quickie at the counter, which included a portion of the bore. He wouldn't let me keep the casting, but I am pretty sure the bore was .439. His diagnosis was .43 Mauser. He passed away last year and I took it to the gunsmith mentioned above for a second opinion, and so that I could get a casting to keep. He however, did not capture any of the bore.

The long throat you mentioned had me befuddled for sure. I am attaching a pic of the second chamber cast and a printout that the smith gave me. Here are 3 diameters for the cast:
Base- .524. Shoulder- .517. Neck- .466.
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Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

marlinman93 wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:24 am
Betting it's not actually a .44-90, unless somebody reamed out the chamber. The gun appears to likely be a Husqvarna, and the early ones had their actions built by Remington, and then Husqvarna assembled the rest of the guns. I believe that was the first 10,000 actions Sweden purchased?
More than likely it began life as an 11.7 Danish, and got brought back to the US and opened up to this chambering. It also appears the forearm was modified at some point as they were either a single band carbine, or a full length forearm rifle. Looking at the closeup of the forearm I can still see where it's a little dull from when it was cut down and sanded smooth.
Still a very neat Rolling Block, and a piece of history!
Thanks a ton for the info. I couldnt see it being original either. My main goal is to make sure I dont ruin something important when I get around to sporterizing it.
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cas
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by cas »

South American rifle in Scandinavian dress?
.43 Reformado maybe? (I think your casting would have less shoulder though, so looking at it again I don't think so)
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marlinman93
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by marlinman93 »

When the gunsmith did the chamber cast did he tell you what the groove diameter was? That would help confirm the cartridge it's chambered for.
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Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

Since he was using a standard micrometer, I assumed he was measuring max OD, which would be groove diameter. That's assuming a symmetrical arrangement (even number) of lands and grooves. I am going from memory, but I'm bout 90% sure the dia. was .439.
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by M. M. Wright »

I have a Danish roller but mine was in 11.7 x 51R. My Dad's best friend liberated it during WWII and gave it to me when I was 12. That 12 year old borrowed a 45-70 reamer and opened the chamber to take a 45-70. When I got old enough to figure out I needed to slug the barrel I found it to be .461 diameter to bottom of the grooves with a slow twist that will only stabilize about a 325 grain bullet. I now load a fired case by changing the primer, drop tubing however much ffg Goex and compressing that about 1/8th inch with a card wad. I then just hand seat my lubed bullet and slip it in the chamber. It's amazing. Of course it took me 70 years to figure all this out. I had a 3 cavity mold made to turn out a suitable bullet and size it down to .459 for my '86 which is 45-90 Express. Mine has the same crown as yours on each barrel band.
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Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

That's a neat story. I was wondering what the bore dia. was on the 11.7.
Bill in Oregon
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Bill in Oregon »

The Danish rolling blocks stand out from a distance because of the extremely long staff on the rear sight.
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Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:58 am
The Danish rolling blocks stand out from a distance because of the extremely long staff on the rear sight.
https://www.ima-usa.com/products/origin ... 3805953605
Thanks for the link!
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marlinman93
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by marlinman93 »

Oldncrusty wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:41 pm
Since he was using a standard micrometer, I assumed he was measuring max OD, which would be groove diameter. That's assuming a symmetrical arrangement (even number) of lands and grooves. I am going from memory, but I'm bout 90% sure the dia. was .439.
Based on the .439" it can't be a .44-77 or a .44-90 as both used a .446" bullet patched to around .451"-.452" groove diameter. Both of my Rolling Blocks in the .44-77 SBN have groove diameters of around .451"-.452" diameters.
And based on the info, I'm changing my mind on it being Swedish too! Like the early Swede built Rolling Blocks, the South American Rolling Blocks were also first supplied by Remington and I think yours is more likely an SA version built here in the US. The measurements you listed look exactly like the 11.5 Spanish Reformado, and not the .44-90 SBN. So likely it still has it's original chambering too.
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Oldncrusty
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Re: Rolling Block conundrum

Post by Oldncrusty »

Very neat. Thanks a ton for your help. Can I still surmise that the Danish furniture was cobbled on by an importer or such here in the U.S.?
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