New bullet mould for the trapdoor

[earlmck]

One of the matches we shoot in these parts during shootin' season is a trapdoor match. Officially we call it "military single-shot" but we hardly ever see anything but a trapdoor Springfield 45/70 used for this. We shoot steel buffalo that are generally sized for the range; the 200 yarder is about like a medium dog and the 500 yarder maybe a 3/4 buff size thing. Should be no problem hitting such fair-sized targets but I have been noticeable by my absence from the shooters at the top; I've been actively competing for next-to-last place.

Slugged the bore on my smoke pole and get about .460, while the Lee 405 grain bullet I've been using runs abound .456 to .457 depending on where you put the micrometer. Needing a scapegoat beyond my shooting I would like to blame the bullet. And at the last shoot friend Tommy shot real well using a Lee hollow-based 400 grainer. So I found this very mould available at Natchez and ordered one up. Came in today -- funny gizmo at the bottom to make the hollow base.

LeeMouldA.jpg

LeeMouldB.jpg

As is normal for me with a new mould it took a fair lot of casting before it starting making halfway wrinkle-free bullets, but they do pop right out of the mould without any pounding (though you gotta' turn the mould upside down to dump) so it didn't take terribly long to do 50 or 70 or something like that and finally get mostly decent bullets dropping out. Here's what they look like:

NewBulletA.jpg

NewBulletB.jpg

and they measure .460 to .462 depending on where you look. And here is how they look next to the old bullet: a somewhat different profile for sure (old bullets the shorter ones on the left, new hollow-based ones on the right)

NewandOldBullets.jpg

The .460+ size should be a better fit for the bore on the old babe but I'm a little concerned that this is not the most perfectly uniform base I've ever seen: makes a funny little step almost like a bevel, and with the hollow base it just doesn't look totally round. I don't know when I'll get testing done as we have finally got winter weather here with cold and snow, but I'm looking forward to giving her a try.

[Bronco]

Thanks for the interesting report.
Look like a hoot to shoot in those kind of matches/

It will hard to wait for the reports on performance !

[Scott Tschirhart]

Very interesting. I've never messed with a trapdoor though I have some limited experience with the Sharps. I look forward to seeing how these bullets shoot.

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, I had that mold but don't recall using it in a Trapdoor. Which model do you have? I had a couple of 1884s and doubt I could begin to see the Buffington sights any more.

[Ray Newman]

Earl: you probably already know this, byt the original M1873 bullet was hollow based and 20:1 alloy. So you just may be onto something. I never tried that bullet in my Trapdoors.

For Those-Not-In-The-Know, J.S. Wolf wrote The Book on loading, casting, shooting, and using the original US Arsenal sights on the Trapdoor rifles and carbines. Spence Wolf dedicated his shooting life to making the old war horses shoot reliably and accurately. At 184 pages, the book is treasure trove of information and well worth it.

Available at:
Wolf's Western Traders -- https://the4570book.com/shop/ols/produc ... nd-carbine

[Jay Bird]

Earl,
From the half dozen or so 1884 trapdoors I loaded for I sized them .460 and finally opened one mould up to .462.....it was the plain base 457424..(I think that's the number) 385 gr. R.n.....had a guy open up a sizer for me on the lathe.....The trapdoors I had that had perfect bores shot like a house on fire.......(no disrespect for people in Colorado)........

My alloy was wheelweights with 2% tin added.

After I near mastered the Trapdoor I sold them off but if I was going to do it again I'd get the 500 gr. Lyman RN for the 500 meter shooting as the 385 fell apart after 300 meters. 500 grains is definitely needed after 300 meters if you want excellent accuracy.

The hollowbase bullet your showing should be a soft alloy, but you know that.

I used 5744...can't remember the load....but it was for about 1400.....11-13 grains of Unique, loose in the case would put them in a small circle at close range....100 -150 meters...

My trapdoors were solid guns, one was like New with 99% colors but a guy offered me 2 big ones for it and down the road it went.

Also had a $1.98 Remington rolling block in 43 something.....I screwed on a Numrich arms barrel that was about 2" in diameter ...that was my most accurate one.----006

[Ray Newman]

Jay Bird: did you ever try the Lyman 457-121PH bullet?

More than a few years ago, that bullet was "the cat's meow for Black Powder cartridge rifle shooters. Now, I don't see it listed much at all on the various Black Powder rifle match equipment lists.

[Jay Bird]

Nope, can't say that I have....I have so many moulds over here I've never used most of them.....the one I settled on is an NEI design that drops them at 375 grains....if placed right, it'll drop an elk in his tracks.....

The aluminum blocks on the top is my number 1 bullet in all of my 45-70's and 90's.
Underneath that mould is a special order Lyman 4 cavity for the 385 RN

Next pic has 3 sets of blocks. ......the one on top is a special order Hensley and Gibbs with 4 different designs...45-70, .405, 333 OKH, and a long 30 caliber similar to the 308284

[Ysabel Kid]

I'm going to have to get me one of those!

[earlmck]

I was neglectful of my duties and didn't show the rifle. Friend Gene came and shot with our wild bunch one time a couple summers ago. He used this for both the trapdoor match and the mid- and long range matches (he didn't get any awards but got to burn some powder and get a smile on this face)

GeneShoots.jpg

And then he left it with me when he went on the road (full-time RVer). This is the 1884 version --

Trapdoor1884mark.jpg

It has a very decent bore and a good chamber.

TrapdoorRifle.jpg

The Buffington sight is a danged fine sight, but a little challenging for over-experienced eyeballs. I tried to show my view through them with the camera focused on the front sight.

TrapdoorLookThruSights.jpg

Yes, that's the leetle sceenchy front sight down in the left corner. Maybe my shootin' problems are sight alignment problems rather than bullet problems?

These will be loaded with black powder because that's the game we play with these. Left to my own devices I'd be using a BP equivalent load of 5744 most likely.

Oh, and thanks for the book tip Ray -- Looks like something I should have, so I've now got one ordered up.

[Bill in Oregon]

Earl, it is indeed that "leetle sceenchy front sight" that causes my eyes all the trouble. The Buffington had to be one of the most sophisticated iron sight systems ever mounted by any country on their military rifles.

[M. M. Wright]

I let my trap door go about a year ago but just wanted to let all know that if you have a chance at one with a bad bore there is a solution and his name is Bobby Hoyt. He relined mine with the proper 3 groove liner and it shot real good after.

[earlmck]

Earl, it is indeed that "leetle sceenchy front sight" that causes my eyes all the trouble. The Buffington had to be one of the most sophisticated iron sight systems ever mounted by any country on their military rifles.

I initially couldn't see the sights on this thing at all but then made the discovery that -- if I took my glasses off -- I could kinda' see the sights. And without the glasses the targets had got somewhat bigger even though much blurrier. And although the front sight still disappears when looking through the peep hole on the Buffington, if I use the open "v" I can at least persuade myself that I can get lined up pretty good on the target. Heck, I can't see how I can keep missing so regularly, which is how I decided it might be the bullet. Took a while to train my spotter not to say something like "ya hit just under his front legs" (unhelpful if you can't tell which way danged bullalo is facing) so I need "7 o'clock, 18" out" sort of information.

[Catshooter]

Well, old eyes can be a hill to climb, but I promise sending a .457 bullet down a .460 bore will be trouble. At least in my experience. Keyholes wouldn't surprise me at all. Too, I agree that the base of that Lee looks . . . funny. Hope it works for you.

Trapdoors are fun. Good luck with yours!

[earlmck]

I thought that before I lube/sized the new bullets I'd open up my lube die a thousandth of two to take advantage of the .460 diameter of the new bullet. I've done this occasionally over the years and my previous Lyman dies had been easy to do. Not this one! I bought it about 5 years ago and somewhere in these last 20 years the folks at Lyman started hardening their lube-size dies. After four or five applications of my trusty hone with 60 grit sand paper I had not opened that die by even a ten-thousandth; hadn't even roughened it up. Definitely good and HARD, these newer Lyman dies.

Friend Dana does blacksmithing as a hobby, his advice for annealing the die: "heat to cherry red, allow to cool very gradually" So I got a pot of lead melted at about 700 degrees, floated a large steel spoon on top, hung the die on a piece of baling wire and heated the "G" die to cherry red using the propane torch (might have gone a bit past red and toward yellow), set the die on the spoon on top of the melted lead and turned off the pot. A few hours later we were cool enough and I broke out the hone again -- my hone is a piece of steel rod chucked in a drill with a slit cut with a dremel cutting wheel so I can insert strips of the appropriate grit of sand paper (preferably the wet-or-dry stuff which is tougher and stands up better to the treatment).

lHoneinDrill.jpg

I used 60, 160, and then 600 grits wrapped large enough to be a firm fit, hone run in-and-out and with the die allowed to rotate slowly, done until the die was almost too hot to hold with my bare hand. This time it worked like it is supposed to; the first session opened the annealed die up a couple thousandths so a trip through the die polished the bands of the bullet a bit but only the base band was polished all the way around. I judged that just about perfect -- diameter comes out just a scosh over .460 now.

leadbullets490hb.jpg

The slightly funny base on the hb bullet wants to let lube squeeze under the bullet when you apply pressure on the lube (at least with my die) which I solved by putting one of the vegetable-fibre wads that I use for loading the cartridges on top of the die punch, which resulted in a good enough seal to keep lube from getting under the base.

Lymandiewithwad.jpg

Here are loaded rounds, old bullet on left and new on the right.

loaded4570.jpg

If I was hunting with these and packing them in a pocket I would probably seat a little deeper to cover the lube better but at this length they are a nice press-fit in the chamber of the old trap-door. Now we wait for some better weather to do a bit of shooting!

[Bill in Oregon]

Your mods and bullets look great, Earl! Hope you get a break in the weather and give them a good workout. I miss a Trapdoor. Wonderful rifles.

[Catshooter]

Nice work kid! You're a good mechanic. Those should shoot well, I hope they do!