IMPACT

[JimT]

There are people who believe Jesus of Nazareth never existed. Some say he is just a made up figure while others agree he probably did exist several thousand years ago but deny the stories told about him in the ancient writings. They dismiss these as myths and fables. Yet here is a man who has impacted the entire planet like no other.

How?

For one, our calendar has divided time by his birth. BC and AD (meaning Before Christ and In The Year of our Lord). Yes, modern skeptics have tried to change that to Before Common Era and Common Era (BCE and CE). The irony, of course, is that what distinguishes B.C.E from C.E. is still the birth of Jesus of Nazareth!

Then there are at least two holidays celebrated around the globe that commemorate him ... Easter and Christmas. While the dates for both do vary in some places, both are celebrated world-wide. Yes, there are some places that do not celebrate these days, just as there are people in our communities who do not celebrate them. The facts are however that the majority of the planet does celebrate these days in one way or another. And yes, many who celebrate these holidays give no thought to what they stand for. But they participate.

Among ancient manuscripts and writings there are more existing copies of stories about him than there are of famous people who have influenced society through the ages such as Homer, Socrates and Plato.

One man, born several thousand years ago in a small town in a seemingly insignificant Middle Eastern nation, somehow impacted history, cultures and practices throughout the entire world! And though he did not come to start a new religion, yet there are billions of people on this planet who acknowledge him in their religion whether christian or otherwise!

We might want to take a bit of time this year and remember the reason for the Christmas Season.

Merry Christmas!

[AJMD429]

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Yep. Pretty amazing no matter whether viewed from a Christian perspective or just that of an atheist historian.

[JimT]

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Yep. Pretty amazing no matter whether viewed from a Christian perspective or just that of an atheist historian.

Yessir ... it is!

[TraderVic]

Thank you Jim. Through the centuries, many have rejected Jesus Christ, and continue to do so. I believe significant reasons for this rejection is many don't want to give up their sin, many refuse to acknowledge accountability to the creator, thus refusing to surrender their will to Christ. Many refuse God's love, His truth, His Law (aka The Ten Commandments).
His resurrection is what we should celebrate the most !

[M. M. Wright]

Thanks Jim. And a MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.

[.45colt]

I saw a show several years ago about the German U Boats in WW2. They interviewed one of the few U Boat Captains who lived to see the end of the war. He said that He had many un believers and so called atheists on several different subs.
He said that when the depth charges were going off , pipes bursting, water spewing everywhere.....Everyone of them were Praying to God for Mercy. Everyone of them................................

[Ysabel Kid]

Spot on Jim!

[Pitchy]

Right on Jim, also if He isn`t real why has the world to this day worked so hard to destroy everything about Him.

I haven`t posted this for a while hope ya don`t mind.

My Lord Is Everything.

He is the First and Last, the Beginning and the End!
He is the Keeper of Creation and the Creator of all!
He is the Architect of the universe and
The Manager of all times.
He always was, He always is, and He always will be…
Unmoved, Unchanged, Undefeated, and never Undone!
He was bruised and brought healing!
He was pierced and eased pain!
He was persecuted and brought freedom!
He was dead and brought life!
He is risen and brings power!
He reigns and brings Peace!
The world can’t understand Him,
The armies can’t defeat Him,
The schools can’t explain Him, and
The leaders can’t ignore Him.

Herod couldn’t kill Him,
The Pharisees couldn’t confuse Him, and
The people couldn’t hold Him!
Nero couldn’t crush Him,
Hitler couldn’t silence Him,
The New Age can’t replace him, and
Philosophers can’t explain Him away!

He is light, love, longevity, and Lord.
He is Goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, and God.
He is Holy, Righteous, Mighty, Powerful and Pure.
His ways are right,
His word is eternal,
His will is unchanging, and
His mind is on me.
He is my Redeemer,
He is my Savior,
He is my Guide, and
He is my Peace!
He is my Joy,
He is my Comfort,
He is my Lord, and
He rules my life!
I serve Him because His bond is love,
His burden is light, and
His goal for me is abundant life.
I follow Him because He is the wisdom of the wise,
The power of the powerful,
The Ancient of Days, the Ruler of rulers,
The Leader of leaders, the Overseer of the overcomers, and
The Sovereign Lord of all that was and is and is to come.

And if that seems impressive to you, try this on for size.

His goal is a relationship with ME!
He will never leave me,
Never forsake me,
Never mislead me,
Never forget me,
Never overlook me, and
Never cancel my appointment in His appointment book!

When I fall, He lifts me up!
When I fail, He forgives!
When I am weak, He is strong!
When I am lost, He is the way!
When I am afraid, He is my courage!
When I stumble, He Steadies me!
When I am hurt, He heals me!
When I am broken, He mends me!
When I am blind, He leads me!
When I am hungry, He feeds me!
When I face trials, He is with me!
When I face persecution, He shields me!
When I face problems, He comforts me!
When I face loss, He provides for me!
When I face Death, He carries me Home!
He is everything for everybody, everywhere,
Every time and every way.
He is God, He is faithful.
I am His, and He is mine!
My Father in Heaven can whip the father of this world.
So, if you’re wondering why I feel so secure, understand this….
He said it and that settles it.
God is in control, I am on His side, and
That means all is well with my soul.
Everyday is a blessing for God Is!
I love the Lord and thank Him for all that He does in my life.
Yes, I do love Jesus.
He is my source of existence and my Savior.
He keeps me functioning each and every day.
Without Him, I would be nothing, but
With Him I can do all things.
Phillippians 4:13

Author unknown

[Gobblerforge]

Thank you Jim. Through the centuries, many have rejected Jesus Christ, and continue to do so. I believe significant reasons for this rejection is many don't want to give up their sin, many refuse to acknowledge accountability to the creator, thus refusing to surrender their will to Christ. Many refuse God's love, His truth, His Law (aka The Ten Commandments).
His resurrection is what we should celebrate the most !

And some simply because it doesn't fill the need for evidence and facts. I for one don't have faith in super natural or magic.

[JimT]

And some simply because it doesn't fill the need for evidence and facts. I for one don't have faith in super natural or magic.

That's the beautiful thing about this nation ... we are free to choose our own beliefs! That freedom is supposed to extend to our entire life. No one is required to agree with me or believe what I do.

[CowboyTutt]

Things are different now IMHO, God's signature is all over the place and we finally have enough science to demonstrate that fact if you ask me. Here's the latest work by Stephan C. Myer, best selling author of Darwin's Doubt and other books on Intelligent Design. It's a heady intellectual and academic read but doable and I'm still working on it myself. I really need to take a trip to try to meet with this man and have him sign his book. -Tutt

https://returnofthegodhypothesis.com/

[Bullard4075]

+1

[Ray]

Click on photo.....

R.png

Missing from chorus....

salvation to impart. you ask me how I know HE lives.....HE lives within my heart !

[rossim92]

There are people who believe Jesus of Nazareth never existed. Some say he is just a made up figure while others agree he probably did exist several thousand years ago but deny the stories told about him in the ancient writings. They dismiss these as myths and fables. Yet here is a man who has impacted the entire planet like no other.

How?

For one, our calendar has divided time by his birth. BC and AD (meaning Before Christ and In The Year of our Lord). Yes, modern skeptics have tried to change that to Before Common Era and Common Era (BCE and CE). The irony, of course, is that what distinguishes B.C.E from C.E. is still the birth of Jesus of Nazareth!

Then there are at least two holidays celebrated around the globe that commemorate him ... Easter and Christmas. While the dates for both do vary in some places, both are celebrated world-wide. Yes, there are some places that do not celebrate these days, just as there are people in our communities who do not celebrate them. The facts are however that the majority of the planet does celebrate these days in one way or another. And yes, many who celebrate these holidays give no thought to what they stand for. But they participate.

Among ancient manuscripts and writings there are more existing copies of stories about him than there are of famous people who have influenced society through the ages such as Homer, Socrates and Plato.

One man, born several thousand years ago in a small town in a seemingly insignificant Middle Eastern nation, somehow impacted history, cultures and practices throughout the entire world! And though he did not come to start a new religion, yet there are billions of people on this planet who acknowledge him in their religion whether christian or otherwise!

We might want to take a bit of time this year and remember the reason for the Christmas Season.

Merry Christmas!

Amen!

[Scott Tschirhart]

It is interesting to see the influence Jesus had on everything that followed. Even the Muslim reveres him as a prophet.

Likewise, Paul (Saul of Tarsus) was the most influential Roman of all time. Julius Ceasar was a distant second.

[Ray]

The gospel of John chapter 1 in the king james version to me is the greatest englisher text ever written.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe6eMQQIoqE

[JimT]

I like The Passion Translation also.
It better expresses the Greek and Aramaic that it was originally written in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwhZjJ-stJc

[Grizz]

Things are different now IMHO, God's signature is all over the place and we finally have enough science to demonstrate that fact if you ask me. Here's the latest work by Stephan C. Myer, best selling author of Darwin's Doubt and other books on Intelligent Design. It's a heady intellectual and academic read but doable and I'm still working on it myself. I really need to take a trip to try to meet with this man and have him sign his book. -Tutt

https://returnofthegodhypothesis.com/

you're way ahead of me. I have "signature in the cell", one of the greatest books ever written, outside of Scripture. i will have to get the next two. the signature website has a short animation that asks where information comes from, and illustrates how DNA uses information to manufacture proteins. and export them where they are needed. anyone, bless his heart, who thinks that code came from trillions of failures is an example of one. I M H O †

https://signatureinthecell.com/

[CowboyTutt]

the signature website has a short animation that asks where information comes from, and illustrates how DNA uses information to manufacture proteins. and export them where they are needed. anyone, bless his heart, who thinks that code came from trillions of failures is an example of one. I M H O †

Grizz, you never fail to entertain!

How do you make that cross at the end of your quote???

-Tutt

[Grizz]

the signature website has a short animation that asks where information comes from, and illustrates how DNA uses information to manufacture proteins. and export them where they are needed. anyone, bless his heart, who thinks that code came from trillions of failures is an example of one. I M H O †

Grizz, you never fail to entertain!

How do you make that cross at the end of your quote???

-Tutt

hold down alt key and on the number pad enter 0134 †

lots of things you can insert that way

[Blaine]

The gospel of John chapter 1 in the king james version to me is the greatest englisher text ever written.....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe6eMQQIoqE

There's a film called Gospel Of John. It's word for word straight out of the Bible. It really opened up my eyes....

[Grizz]

speaking of bibles, i study the received text which came from Antioch, from the apostles and prophets. from the ones who were with Christ, who all knew each other of course, and the ones they discipled. there are around 5800 copies from the first church era that are all in substantial agreement with each other. they are the basis for the scripture i study. i rely on Holy Spirit to teach me and to help me straighten out and fly right. (fliers will get that one)

Good Night Y'All

[CowboyTutt]

Grizz, the Textus Receptus is a largely Protestant translation. No offense meant, but it doesn't cover the whole with and breath of the original Bible.

The principles are the same, but some things were honestly left out. And even more of them would have been left out if Luther had his way.

Everyone is free and clear to undertake what translation of the Bible they choose to use. Many versions and translations out there. I personally choose the Septuagint for the Old Testament, and virtually any translation of the New Testament could probably work.

-Tutt

[Grizz]

Tutt, protestant is not a word that is in textus receptus, which is backed by and copied from the five thousand eight hundred existing examples of the new testament. nothing that was agreeable with and to the five hundred plus witnesses of Christ's ascension is missing. nothing that is directly from or alluded to in the old testament is missing.

Inserting a word like protestant or Luther into a discussion of the bible is humanism. i am interested in conversing about what the actual revelation of YHWH is, and not what humanists have to say about it.

it's like discussing whether Saul was antinomian, calvinist?

since neither thing is in scripture, it is a pointless waste of time because Christ did not command us to make calvinists or antinomians, or protestants for that matter. Christ commanded us to make disciples around the world. The church fathers are the apostles who were with Christ, and their disciples. Their teaching is the doctrine of salvation and needs no humanistic assistance, because it is Holy Spirit who guides and teaches and 'leads us into all truth', which is fact checked in scripture.

One of the most powerful things Holy Spirit taught me is from Galatians 1, and it is proof against every wind of doctrine, wherever it may come from.

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [perverting the gospel of Christ entails twisting, perverting the truth]

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. [proof test 1: is someone stating that the gospel is different in any way from the one they heard from Paul] (for example, adding to what Paul stated, or changing what Paul stated) {understand that this was happening in Paul's day. people were following behind him twisting the message. humanism at work}

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.[proof test 2: if anyone preaches any other gospel THAN THE ONE THAT THEY RECEIVED, let him be accursed, which means to be cast out from YHWY's grace for ever.]

an angel from heaven!!! any cults fit that description? nor Paul himself. nor any other person at any time. the truth test is, do they twist scripture from what Paul taught? and are they altering the gospel that the Galatians believed unto salvation? When I know those two things I am innoculated from all heresy, all counterfeits, all perversions of the doctrines of salvation. It's a divine measuring stick. when i understood that i realized that i had no worries about cults or religions or doctrines of devils or false prophets or devils disguised as angels, or humanists, or anti-christs, or philosophies, because "greater is He who is in me....." i realized what great thing He has wrought, all of His own doing, i became like a little child in His arms. there are no other things to know or to do other than what the Galatians believed and what the Galatians received.

and for this reason i trust the received text that comes from the apostles and the commissioned disciples.

truth is binary. there are two binary diagnostic questions. I take the apostles at their word as i take Christ at His word.

Sincerely, † † †

[JimT]

nothing that was agreeable with and to the five hundred plus witnesses of Christ's ascension is missing. nothing that is directly from or alluded to in the old testament is missing.

Grizz .. not meaning to argue .. just pointing out that James quoted directly from The Book of Enoch and that book has been cut out of the modern Scriptures. Paul in the Book of Romans1:18-31 writes what is virtually identical to The Wisdom of Solomon 13:1-10,14:22-31.

I believe in the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God. When He was about 18 He grew a beard!

[Ray]

nothing that was agreeable with and to the five hundred plus witnesses of Christ's ascension is missing. nothing that is directly from or alluded to in the old testament is missing.

Grizz .. not meaning to argue .. just pointing out that James quoted directly from The Book of Enoch and that book has been cut out of the modern Scriptures. Paul in the Book of Romans1:18-31 writes what is virtually identical to The Wisdom of Solomon 13:1-10,14:22-31.

I believe in the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God. When He was about 18 He grew a beard!

Jude(as) perhaps ? Close to home as he was thought to be bro. to james the just.....

[JimT]

nothing that was agreeable with and to the five hundred plus witnesses of Christ's ascension is missing. nothing that is directly from or alluded to in the old testament is missing.

Grizz .. not meaning to argue .. just pointing out that James quoted directly from The Book of Enoch and that book has been cut out of the modern Scriptures. Paul in the Book of Romans1:18-31 writes what is virtually identical to The Wisdom of Solomon 13:1-10,14:22-31.

I believe in the inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of God. When He was about 18 He grew a beard!

Jude(as) perhaps ? Close to home as he was thought to be bro. to james the just.....

Correct. My mistake. Jude 14 - 15. I am not inerrant infallible or inspired!

[Ray]

Paul also quoted from the greek classics and he did not intimate that aristotle was divinely inspired. Any and all of the so-called apocrypha have always been treated as somewhat suspect even by the papists. It is rarely quoted from today.

To me you have to take them all or none. If you actually believe that jude thought the enoch book divinely inspired then it follows that the quabballic stuff, full of wizardry and the occult and satanic lies.....adam had a wife previous to eve who laid with the serpent to spawn cain etc. has to be truth. I reject it all and stick to the proven 66 books.

The so-called extra gospels include such blasphemies as our blessed Redeemer in his earthly youth committing murder to allow opportunity to perform miracles.

[Grizz]

i had replied to Jim's comment, and mercifully it disappeared instead of posting. the Lord is looking out for me still

[CowboyTutt]

Grizz, here is a comparison between the Septuagint, the Roman Catholic and Protestant Old Testament Bibles. This is taken from my Orthodox Study Bible, one of my favorite "go to" study Bibles.

Bible Differences .jpg

I have all 3 and then some (the Latin Vulgate as translated into English is also a neat one as is the Knox Bible, I have many to cross compare. The Passion Translation is however new to me, and thanks to JimT. for enlightening me there.) Anyhow, this chart demonstrates how different the Old Testament books which are Canon for one and not the other. None of the books in the LXX (Septuagint) are considered Apocrypha by Orthodox Churches and are deuterocanonical books within the Roman Catholic Church and supposedly are included as an attachment to a modern Protestant Bible but I have never seen that myself to be honest (here I have to say the NASB is one of my favorite literal translations as well). Here is the Wikipedia page on Biblical apocrypha.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha

The book Jim T. was referring to was "The Book of Enoch". It is one of the very oldest Apocrypha books and as Jim did say, it is often referred to by early Church Fathers and even in the Bible itself, but it is not consistent with Jesus's teachings. It is however an interesting read. The other Apocryphal book of notice and worth looking at for everyone is the Book of Jubilees, sometimes called Lesser Genesis, "Little Genesis" or the "Book of Division". It expands on the tale of Noah. These two books are only considered canonical from the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and a very rare form of Judaism I believe.

Grizz, I admire your faith A LOT! I think you and Jim T. are even more passionate than me. I admire you both. On the one hand, you can be the academic like me, or you can just throw that aside, and just follow the basic principals of loving God and Jesus and trusting in him. I have learned in the last few years to trust him more than ever, and I have seen the results of his sending me where I need to be. I admire you both a lot, all these different translations might be, as you said, a "humanistic invention" and for sure, we need to focus on having a personal relationship with God and Jesus (Yahweh). And also know my best friends are Protestants, so please don't think I am "Protestant Bashing" because I am not. I do have my preferences however like anyone. And I think many of the books and deleted prayers included in the LXX add something to the greater "breath and depth" of the Bible.

Regards,

-Tutt

[JimT]

Tutt ... I am sure you know this but in case ... the Septuagint was translated from an ancient Hebrew test that is 1000 years older than the Masoretic text that the modern translations use for the Old Testament Scriptures. Jesus, Paul and the Apostles all used the Septuagint, which is why when they are quoted using Old Testament scripture it reads differently than the modern translation.

[CowboyTutt]

Tutt ... I am sure you know this but in case ... the Septuagint was translated from an ancient Hebrew test that is 1000 years older than the Masoretic text that the modern translations use for the Old Testament Scriptures. Jesus, Paul and the Apostles all used the Septuagint, which is why when they are quoted using Old Testament scripture it reads differently than the modern translation.

Yes Sir, and why it is my "go to translation" of the Old Testament. I was advised to go back to Jesus and Apostles, which is what lead me back to this version of the Bible in the first place. I was just trying to take it back to its original roots and what Jesus and the Apostles actually used to educate the faithful. Its the very reason I went back to it. If it was good enough for Jesus and his Apostles, it is certainly good enough for me. By a large margin. Thank you for the clarification Jim.

-Andy Tuttle aka Tutt

[Grizz]

Tutt and Jim, thanks so much for the input, this is invigorating, wish the distance from the campfire was shorter. There is a lot of spiritual tide rips in the world, but that is not new. My big ask is, "may i not be deceived". Here is an example, it's commonly said with the utmost sincerity that to be born again you just "ask Jesus into your heart". this turns my stomach because there is not one instance in the bible of anyone becoming justified that way. Not 1 ! One 'sinner's prayer' in scripture that comes to mind is Luke 18:13. Jesus said the hated publican went home justified. the pharisee who "prayed with himself", not so much. he was the most religious person on the planet. it hinges on who we believe and trust. you know, not everyone agrees about this, regardless of how much textual data we have. it's weird. because Jesus says that a child can grasp it. The pharisee trusted his own works. To the degree we trust ourselves, we blaspheme the Holiness of the Spirit of Christ.

Another one is the MISUSE of the word repent. It means something entirely different with regard to a believer and an unbeliever. And those differences are muddied or just plain lied about.
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Screenshot (10970).png

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Screenshot (10971).png

the url for the specifics is: https://healthyjourney.org/kjv-vs-niv-b ... -contrast/
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i know this is new to some people, most of whom would classify me in the KJB 1611 ONLY crowd, but that's not me, exactly, and there are lots of reasons why. it is hard for people to hear. I know actual believers who won't listen to or probe this proposition. I am someone whose favorite place is the intersection of Truth and Not True, because the deepest truths of scripture are at the intersection of "these two things cannot possibly both be true". Consider the scene in John where the jews told Jesus that he had a devil, and Jesus told them they had the devil for their father.... both things cannot be true. John8:44, 52. It makes a difference what text base i read, because the revised readings are spurious and downright wrong in places. The two lines of text are the received from Antioch, and the revised from Alexandria. These compare similarly to the differences between the septuagint and the masoretic texts.
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Two-Lines-of-Bible-Manuscripts.png

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I follow the scriptures that the apostles and their disciples wrote, the ones the galatians received and believed unto salvation. I reject the revisions, or "versions" in the same way i regard the cootie variants. keep my distance, wash after reading, etc. [ ]

i think modern evangelicals have a lot to answer for, because the church is tainted by the world to the degree that right and wrong and righteousness and holiness and godliness are squishy and spongy, two characteristics that aren't part of the Godhead, as far as i know.

This is not directed against anybody's person, it is just me opening a vein and hoping for the best.

Thanks for listening

grizz † † †

[Blaine]

Some think that a only a very narrow path has been cleared up to heaven.
I believe that's very wrong.
The OT was The Law and Prophecy.
The NT was love and forgiveness....The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John say so. You can argue every little turn of phrase you want, but that's The Good News.

[CowboyTutt]

Grizz, thanks for the heads up on the NIV. I've never been much of a fan of it and don't own a copy. It just never spoke to me, it seemed too casual in its language use. Have you heard of the Knox Bible? Its back in print again. Its beautifully written, very poetic and I do have a copy of it.

http://knoxbible.com/reviews.html

Thanks again Bro! -Tutt

[JimT]

While I have versions that I use and prefer I do not believe any translation of the scripture is satanic. Some are poorly done. But you know what? God uses them all. I remember a young hippie who met Jesus while hitch-hiking across the desert. He was stuck in a lonely place and he saw a paperback book caught in a thorn bush. It turned out to be Good News For Modern Man .. not one of the best translations. Yet as he read it he met Jesus and his life was changed.

And THAT is what counts. Not what version you read. What counts is an encounter with the living Messiah. The purpose of The Book is lead us to an encounter with Him.

[CowboyTutt]

I don't think Grizz and I met to imply that any translations of the Bible is satanic Jim, only that Grizz and I are probably "Bible Snobs".

Happy January 1st and thanks again for the book referral! I look forward to receiving it!

-Tutt

[JimT]

Yessir Tutt ... thank you for the kind wishes.
I am sure some translations were done for a profit motive, since the Bible is such a best-seller. But I rejoice that in sincerity or in false motives, the Gospel continues to go out.

Be well my friend!