Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

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newcastleadam
Levergunner
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:20 am

Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

Post by newcastleadam »

Good morning all!

Wanting to pickup a Trapdoor Springfield to bring my US milsurp collection into the 19th century, and had a specific question y'all might be able to help out with. Was talking with a gentleman about his 1873, and he sent me a bullet bore photo. I use this as a rough guide to muzzle wear, and wanted to double check it also applied to the Trapdoor.

Image

Image

And this crack is the other concerning bit.

Image

Thanks!
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2ndovc
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9302
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am
Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie

Re: Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

Post by 2ndovc »

The case shouldn't be touching the crown. I'd pass on that one unless it was super cheap. There are still some good deals out there on the Springfield's. Not exactly cheap, but compared to a lot of the vintage military arms, they are still fairly priced for a good, shootable example.

Hope that helps.

jb 8)
Last edited by 2ndovc on Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"


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jnyork
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4412
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:33 pm
Location: Wyoming and Arizona

Re: Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

Post by jnyork »

Keep looking, you can do a lot better than that.
JB
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1475
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 3:35 pm
Location: WV

Re: Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

Post by JB »

I'd avoid that rifle like the plague. There are a number of nice trapdoors on Gunbroker now. Even one of my own :)
newcastleadam
Levergunner
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:20 am

Re: Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

Post by newcastleadam »

Thanks all. He sent me a follow up photo of just a bullet in the bore.

Image

To be crystal clear, what I *should* see is the some of the bullet head outside of the barrel?

Best,
yooper2
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 845
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:07 pm
Location: Midcoast Maine

Re: Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

Post by yooper2 »

While I agree with the others that there are better trapdoors to be found due to the pitting near the muzzle and damage to the stock near the lock I don't think sticking a random cast bullet in the muzzle means a dam thing. The rifle isn't a garand and the bullet isn't a 150gr fmj of known ogive shape. That cast bullet looks like a bore riding design, and if so it should drop right in like it does in your latter post. The photos in your first post certainly raise eyebrows but again, you know nothing about the loaded round being shoved in the end of the barrel. Could be that the fella had a small (.457"-.458") commercially cast bullet and went a bit heavy on the crimp with a rifle that happens to run large.

Trapdoors run all over the place in terms of bore/groove diameter. I've owned 3 and personally measured another dozen or so since my dad made a little jig for measuring a pound cast of the three groove rifling. The tightest was .451"/.459" and the largest so far has been .453"/.464". The biggest one is the best shooting one of the bunch with properly sized bullets! The chamber is generous enough to load them that big. Trapdoors had great barrels but like all guns from that era they vary much more than modern barrels. 3 I have examined have had pitting in the same place about 3" back from the muzzle, maybe from using tompions? One of them lives here and still shoots pretty well.

If the bore looks good and the muzzle hasn't been obviously wallowed out from cleaning rod abuse try shooting it. If you're looking down the bore and the rifling becomes less distinct by the muzzle or the contrast between lands and grooves becomes less clear then I would consider it suspect to said cleaning rod abuse. Another option is feeling the bore with the tightest jag/patch combo you can fit through it.

Eric
coyote nose
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Posts: 476
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Location: NE Ohio

Re: Trapdoor Springfield Bore Question

Post by coyote nose »

I used to own 6 or 7 trapdoors, most in 45-70 and still have 1 left, but in 50-70...used to be a trapdoor fiend until the 1866 Winchester caught my eye! In any case yooper2 is spot on regarding the cast bullet in the muzzle. Frankly, I have never seen a really bad trapdoor bore...Sarge must have really let his troops know they better clean that barrel or it's sentry duty for them! I've seen some frosted here and there but amazingly, unlike other late 1800s bores in other models, the trapdoors usually are in shootable condition. Wish I could say the same about the Winchester lever actions from that era. None the less you are wise to inquire about the bore condition as anything is possible. Regarding the wood damage...wood damage at your location and also at the very back end of the lock is classic, and stems from improper disassembly of the lock. Most people take out the lock screws from the left hand side of the stock, then grab that big old hammer and use it as a lever to pry the lockplate out. WRONG! Guaranteed to chip the wood either at the back and/or as shown in your photo (altho admittedly your wood damage is a bit extreme, usually it is a large sliver running parallel to the barrel). The correct way is to put the hammer on the loading notch or half cock notch, back out the screws about 2 turns, then tap the heads with a small brass/leather mallet to 'pop' the lockplate free. Back the screws out another turn or two and repeat, until the lock is out. Since your break is across the grain it may also be due to a broken mainspring popping up into the wood, or someone taking the lock out with the hammer down (ie: not retained in the loading or halfcock notch)...as the lock came out the incredibly strong mainspring cammed the lockplate into the hammer and the wood offered no resistance. Of course, someone may have been heavy handed and tried to pry the plate out with a screw driver too! Who knows. It appears easily repairable though with a good epoxy, some judicious scraping of the cured epoxy, and a little stain. Does the gun have the correct cartouche for the serial number? This would be a much bigger 'problem' for collectors than the wood defect you show if it doesn't. The cartouche varied each year and should match the serial year. Most collectors (but not shooters) will not even consider a trapdoor at any price with missing or unmatched cartouches. Again if you want one just for the fun of shooting (and they are fun, I plan on using my 50-70 1866 for deer here in Ohio in 2 weeks) this may all be irrelevant to you, but it should reflect in the price since you may have a hard time selling it later (ask me how I know). One last thing regarding bore size: I shot either pure lead or 20:1 lead:tin in mine. Very soft, thus it obturated easy enough and really wasnt a big concern.
"...for there is a cloud on my horizon...and its name is progress." E. Abbey, 1958
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