30 cal jug test

[Grizz]

nothing surprising here, but it is instructive. at what range is the 300WM bullet traveling at the 30-30 velocity?

i wish he had shot solids in a re-test to see how the 300 performs with a bullet that isn't frangible.

frangible bullets is why i quit carrying a 338 WM in the bear's woods and switched to 45/70.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlzKM8VSRqc
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†

[Ray]

Deleted.

[JimT]

As for the exterior ballistics, approximately everything you need to know is in the back of a loading manual.

Ah ... a man who reads.
Rare in this age.
You must be one of us old F.a.r.t.s.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Grizz]

speaking of exterior ballistics, here are two charts trying to integrate the ar15 bigger bore uppers with the pistol hunting loads, and some rifles for the higher output. notice the magnum 47/70 loads, or non-edited output. i guess copy editors are the first to go.
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img20211108_17562785.png

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img20211108_17594186.png

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compare to beartooth 45/70/525 load data
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5354.jpg

[Grizz]

here is the ballistics on the 525 out of Blaine's revolver:

5253.png

seems like to me that it puts the BFR squarely in the rifle category, damage wise

[3leggedturtle]

I always wondered what Hornady 180gr RN meant for the '06 would do at 30/30 velocities fir expansion and penetration. Yes I kniw about 190gr .303 Savage bullets.

[Grizz]

I always wondered what Hornady 180gr RN meant for the '06 would do at 30/30 velocities fir expansion and penetration. Yes I kniw about 190gr .303 Savage bullets.

Good question. going the other way is the 30-06 225 load. Lots and lots of variables to chase around.

[crs]

Grizz not all .338 WM bullets are frangible!
I took my 338 and Winchester Fail Safe 230 grain ammo to Africa and had no failures. In fact, they shot through most game. Even a broadside on an Eland.

[44shooter]

My take away is that 30-30 load is impressive. That bullet not only went through a lot of water but expanded nicely. The 308 and 30-06 loads with the PP performed beautifully too but much less deeply. That same bullet about two or three hundred fps faster shucked out. That bullet was probably designed around 06 velocity and therefore works with the slightly slower 308. It will work fine in most 300s most of the time especially at longer range. I personally think faster cartridges warrant heavier bullets to slow them down a bit or tougher bullets to inhibit expansion. A bit of both probably isn't a bad idea. PowerPoint bullets are pretty good performers for non premium though.

[Grizz]

Grizz not all .338 WM bullets are frangible!
I took my 338 and Winchester Fail Safe 230 grain ammo to Africa and had no failures. In fact, they shot through most game. Even a broadside on an Eland.

Good points. Thanks for the input on that. You have way more range of experience than i do.

I settled on a 225 gr round for mine as it had the best performance of the several I tried. It gave me a point blank range that was way past any shots I had available. But I had read somewhere that it did not hold up on a point blank shot against big boned animals. That was pre-everything and my sources were occasional magazines and the rcbs manual. I never heard of fail safe ammo until you mentioned it. I was very isolated and information was usually developed on an ad hoc basis. So I had a great long range setup hunting a short range animal supply. I tried other stuff but decided to go with 45/70 because it actually met my check list, and if I needed a 600 yard shot for some reason I could do that with the 33...

[marlinman93]

Velocity is not your friend when it comes to penetration tests on milk jugs. The faster the bullet is pushed, the more it expands upon hitting the water jugs. So no surprise to me that the slower .30-30 did better on penetration.
My rifle and cartridge best performer on jug tests is my .40-85 Ballard with a 420 gr. Snover style bullet. It exits the muzzle at a lazy 1275 fps, and penetrated 23 jugs, and exited the last one, ever to be found! No idea how many more it would have passed through as I didn't have enough jugs to try it again with more.

[Grizz]

Velocity is not your friend when it comes to penetration tests on milk jugs. The faster the bullet is pushed, the more it expands upon hitting the water jugs. So no surprise to me that the slower .30-30 did better on penetration.
My rifle and cartridge best performer on jug tests is my .40-85 Ballard with a 420 gr. Snover style bullet. It exits the muzzle at a lazy 1275 fps, and penetrated 23 jugs, and exited the last one, ever to be found! No idea how many more it would have passed through as I didn't have enough jugs to try it again with more.

exactly right. it plays into why I DO use hollow points in my social guns, and why I DO NOT use hollow points in my brer bear guns

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Grizz]

My old, so-called "fackler box" (that used gallon zip-loc baggies) is succumbing to the affects/effects of nature and a few stray hits to its frame. I have a new idea for the next one. It will tightly packed with re-filled (tap water) spent 1/2 litre water bottles. Due to the rounded shape of the plastic bottles, it is precisely the imprecision and unpredictably of the oblique hit and the occasional pass-through between two bottles that I'm looking for. Mammals, two or four footed are not symmetrical or homogeneous. They are replete with curves and angles and layers of widely varying constituents.

that's good info too. there are lots of variations, including shooting carcasses. you must get some interesting effects with that setup. i get load to load comparisons, bullet comparisons, and directional stability. i've had bullets eject themselves sideways from the third jug and go sideways through a sheet of plywood, all within a few feet of the muzzle. i coulda called the 'round to it riot load' or some such, but the backing backed out . . .