New venture in reloading

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marlinman93
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New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

It's true! You can teach an old dog new tricks. At least an old dog can try to learn!
I messed around a little many decades ago with loading black powder in my first 1881 Marlin, because I was told not to shoot smokeless in it. The whole thing went sideways when after about 5 shots the action got sticky, and at around shot #8 I barely got the lever open, and it froze up. Took the gun home with the lever open, and sprayed it out with cleaner, until it operated. Then took it all apart for a deep cleaning, and swore off BP.
But now I'm wanting to shoot with the rest the old fanny burbs at the gun club who shoot BPCR 1000 yd. matches, and buffalo matches. They all of course shoot BP, and told me I could shoot smokeless "for fun", but scores wouldn't count. So I'm beginning a new adventure in getting set up to shoot BP in a couple old single shots I own.
I'm going to stick to .45-70 and .44-77SBN, just because I can share a number of components, and cleaning supplies with the two close diameter bores. The .45-70 being .457" and the old .44-77 being .452" will make wiping, etc. interchangeable.
Right now it's already a bit overwhelming at all the bits and pieces needed for BP loading, vs. how simple smokeless has been. Then there's all the variables that may or may not work in cartridge loading! Everyone who is helping me tells me various things to try as far as compression, wads, lubes, etc., and all add they might work better, or not so good, and I need to experiment to see what my guns like.
Then there's all the variables to do or not do between shots, and what may or may not work well. Blow tubes, various wiping techniques, bore pigs, cleaning formulas between shots, etc., etc. I'm amazed at how much variety there is among great shooters, and yet they still all shoot in the top ten in BPCR matches!
Hope at some point soon to have enough parts and pieces of this puzzle together, so I can begin testing loads, and techniques, to see what does or doesn't work for me and my rifles.
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Pitchy
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by Pitchy »

Good luck with the new venture Marlinman, looking forward to seeing how it comes together. :)
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GunnyMack
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by GunnyMack »

I've not burned bp in anything other than muzzle loaders so its all Greek to me!
I wish you luck in finding a simple solution to great scores!!
Like Pitchy says keep us posted on your endeavors.
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earlmck
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by earlmck »

Congrats and commiserations on your new adventure Val. I got sucked into the dirty black stuff about three years ago for the same reasons as you: ya' get to shoot those 1000 yard buffs alongside the big dogs. After running near the back of the pack for the past several years I finally won the long range shoot last weekend at our local match. I got a 20 out of 32 which would normally barely be in the running for third place but none of our Washington contingent made the trek because the weather didn't look very nice which left room for me to sneak one in.

Shootin' the black is quite a kick and not as much different from our normal smokeless loading as they want to tell you. After drop-tubing my measured loads for a couple years I have now gravitated to dropping directly into the case from my Harrel's measure. I am still using a compression die to squish the wad on the powder down to be just right for where I want the bullet to be when seated, though my pardner Butch has been skipping this step and we couldn't tell it made a difference for him. I am full of hot air so the blow-tubing works a treat for me to keep easily chambering rounds. If I don't blow-tube I am having real trouble chambering a cartridge after 3 to 5 shots. Our best shots (those Washington dudes) mostly run a patch or two through the bore after each shot so they don't bother with blow-tubing. However, one of the Washington fellows who is always one of the top shooters also uses the blow-tube without running the patch through, so I don't think that is any huge difference.

Washing all those cases after the shoot is the biggest change as far as I'm concerned. I have been dumping them in a bucket of soapy warm water and hit inside of each and every one with a brush on the end of a cleaning rod section chucked in my drill. Must take me 15 or 20 minutes by the time I scrub and rinse and rinse again and pour out to dry, 68 cases if I didn't take any playing around shots (40 for the long range, 28 for the mid-range shooting)

A bit of a PIA but worth it for the fun of joining in with the bunch and making a nice "Clang!" on those distant steel buffalo.
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ywaltzucanrknrl
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by ywaltzucanrknrl »

I don't shoot long range but do shoot a bit of black powder in lever guns and single shots----I'll second the blow tube, works well for me. As far as cleaning up the brass goes, I knock out the primer and tumble with soap and steel pins.
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

I have a Cleave re-de-capping tool to knock out primers at the range, and drop the cases into a milk jug of soapy water before heading home.
I am still waiting for my order from Brownell's of felts for my bore pigs, and wads from Walters to make up my loads. Got all the rest the pieces for loading, and wiping, so hope to get started very soon!
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Vall, I'm with Earl. It isn't all that different from smokeless, other than the drop-tubing, compression, fouling control and post-shoot cleanup. I find it all pretty darned satisfying, and when you are the guy whose rifle makes a deep boom and blows smoke rings when fired, you get extra style points.
I'll never forget the first long-range BP cartridge rifle match I attended, as an observer back in the mid '80s. It was held at the very fine Douglas Ridge range near Estacada, Oregon. The boys were going to shoot all the way out to 900 yards that day, but they started the match with Trapdoor Springfields at 200 yards from prone. What a treat to watch more than a dozen Trapdoors being fired at once, and seeing those smoke rings shimmying in the bright morning sun. 8)
One of the shooters was Dave Gullo, of Buffalo Arms fame.
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

So far it seems to take far more to reload BP than smokeless powder Bill! If I was loading smokeless I'd prime the cases, drop the powder, and seat a bullet....Done!
With BP I prime the cases, punch some filter paper wads to go over the flash hole, drop those in the case. Dump my charge of BP. Compress the charge. Set a wad over the powder, and seat it. Then seat my bullet. Takes twice as much time even before I start shooting!
Then shooting smokeless is just touching the gun off, and loading another, and another until I'm done.
With BP I'll be wiping between shots, so I made up bore wipes that are a nylon brush with VFG felt over the front. A size 00 faucet washer over the rear, followed by a nylon spacer, and a 8-32 nut threaded on to keep it all together. I'll saturate the felts with a wetting solution, and put them all in a plastic ammo box ready to push through after each shot. Should keep fouling to minimum, and make cleanup extremely easy after I'm done shooting. I made the bore wipes after seeing how expensive they are store bought.

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Douglas Ridge is the club I belong to Bill! We have a 1000 yd. range, and a buffalo at 990 yds. to also shoot. Hoping my BP loads will perform well enough to at least be average there!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Vall, that is a mighty handsome homemade bore pig you have there. Douglas Ridge is a beautiful range.
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:07 pm Vall, that is a mighty handsome homemade bore pig you have there. Douglas Ridge is a beautiful range.
Thanks Bill! Hope it works as well as it turned out! I tried it with just water on it, and it's pretty tight fit in my .44-77's .452" groove, but just snug in my .45-70's. I think it will work even better with a lubricant/water mix on the felts.
Now I just need a darn dry day for a chance to try it!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

Further progress on the BP venture today.
I tried to load some .44-77SBN yesterday, but one look in the cases told me the powder wasn't stacking up well. Same 72.0 gr. charge was various levels in the cases, even when weighing every charge to check them! So this morning I grabbed my saw, some scrap lumber, and some sheetrock screws, and made a drop tube stand. Then cut a piece of 3/8" aluminum tubing I had, and chamfered both ends. Set up some rings on the framework, and using Orings on the tube to set tube height, I began charging cases again. This time they all came out equal height, and lower in the neck too.
I'm using a filter over the flash hole inside the case, then BP, a .030" wad, and my bullets are easily hand seated. The loads I built today are .45-70 for my 34" Ballard #4 Perfection. With the 68.0 grs. of 1 1/2 fg powder and wad compressed .2", and the bullet hand seated, the Paul Jones 526 gr. bullet just kisses the rifling.
Hopefully they'll shoot as good as they look, as I've taken a lot of care to try to be as consistent as possible with the loading. Whenever the rain stops I'll do some testing, and see how these shoot.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Vall, those ought to be wonderful loads. Funny, but a drop tube really does make a difference, doesn't it?
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Sat Nov 06, 2021 6:57 am Vall, those ought to be wonderful loads. Funny, but a drop tube really does make a difference, doesn't it?
Yes it sure does! I tried 20 rds. of .44-77 SBN, and couldn't get the same fill level on the 20 cases. Then with the drop tube they were not only the same, but the level was much lower too.
Going to load up another 20 of .45-70 today with a lighter 500 gr. bullet, just so my trip to the range is a longer shooting day.
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

After so much rain I've lost track of the last dry day, we got a beautiful clear day today! Cold, but no wind, and I figured it was my window of opportunity to try the loads I worked up! So grabbed my shooting bag, ammo, and my Ballard #4 Perfection in .45-70, and hit the range.
Set up paper to try to get a groups for starters, and after the first shot I looked around and realized I'd left my darn delrin wiping rod at home leaning against the loading bench! Had everything else, but no way to wipe the fouling. I decided to at least see how many shots I could get off before rounds wouldn't chamber, and it was about 4-5 rds.!
Then I had my Colt Commercial .45 carry gun, so grabbed some ammo from my stuff to shoot it instead. That's when I discovered my bore snake for .45-70 in the bag too! I had brought a jug of soapy water to deprime cases and drop them in, so I dropped the middle of the bore snake in where the brush was, and pulled it through the barrel! It worked great, so I just pulled that through every 3-4 shots, and it kept things pretty clean!
I shot 10 shots at 75 yds. and had a decent group of about 2", which could be improved if I switch my front insert in my globe sight to a aperture, and not the wide post in it now. After that I cranked in what i figured was 200 yds. elevation, and moved out to the 200 yd. ram steel the club has. Finished shooting the other 30 rds. I had loaded, and all 30 hit the ram with the 526 gr. bullet making it swing from it's chains pretty good. Group of 30 shots could almost cover with my hand, except for a couple flyers. So I'm calling this a success for the first attempt at BPCR type loads.
I think I'll continue with the 64.0 grs. of OE, and the 526 gr. bullet, as the 68 gr. loads didn't shoot any better, and were slightly more recoil. If I was still hunting, I'd take this gun and load out for deer, and see how well it took them off their feet!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

This is the rifle I've been using so far for my load testing. And although a very accurate rifle, the old Marlin Ballard's deep crescent buttplate has proven to be a killer with the heavy recoil of my 526 gr. bullet loads! It's a very early Ballard #4 Perfection that Marlin built the first year they took over production, and they were using up Brown Mfg. parts. So the trigger, hammer, lever, and the crescent buttplate are all Brown parts. I bought this gun 40 years ago for $250, and was able to salvage the action, and buttplate. The barrel and stocks were junk, so I had a friend copy the original 34" half octagon barrel using a Green Mountain blank I bought. I made up new stock and forearm and fitted the Brown buttplate. Sent the action off for color case, and rust blued the new barrel.

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The painful buttplate!
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My next trip to the range I'll take my Hepburn in .45-70 after I ensure my cartridge OAL will fully chamber in that .45-70 too. It's got a steel shotgun style buttplate, and weighs a couple pounds less, but might still be more comfortable on my shoulder!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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GunnyMack
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by GunnyMack »

Looks like you have a good line on reloading bp.
Yeah those cresent butts just hurt too much for repeated shooting from the bench. I keep a short length of pipe wrap insulation in my muzzle loader box. Helps take some of the sting out of my .54.
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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

GunnyMack wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:48 pm Looks like you have a good line on reloading bp.
Yeah those cresent butts just hurt too much for repeated shooting from the bench. I keep a short length of pipe wrap insulation in my muzzle loader box. Helps take some of the sting out of my .54.
My PAST recoil pad is what they call the "Magnum" size, which is larger, but I don't think any thicker? It covers my shoulder well, and protects it, but I still got bruised my last outing, even though it didn't feel sore that day, or later. But I have other .45-70's, so will take others along next time, just to compare the way they shoot the same loads, and feel when shooting them.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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Ray
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Re: New venture in reloading

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marlinman93
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Re: New venture in reloading

Post by marlinman93 »

wayneesmith1001 wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:21 am Hey,
I m new here I'm trying to perfect rifle reloading.
I've reloaded for over 45 years, and still trying to perfect it too! I think I've got a handle on smokeless, but wish I'd tried black powder a long time ago, so I could have a better chance at getting a good handle on it too!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
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