A call to civility

[AmBraCol]

This forum has been a great repository of information on leveraction rifles and many other topics for quite a while. We've had some great contributors over the year, some who have passed on and some who continue to post here and some who have moved on. There are a number of different personalities and it is inevitable that some conflict of personality result. I know of some who have quit frequenting this forum because others have forgotten the tagline at the top of every page.

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.

This is not a new phenomenon. Reference Hobie's post from a "couple" years back.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=46964

Unfortunately there are some people who forget - this forum was started by people who hold a certain world view and who rightly expect those they have allowed into their virtual living room to respect that world view and adhere to its principles while in that virtual living room. Not too hard of a goal to live up to, for those who value the camaraderie and opportunity to learn from others and to share what one knows with others.

It is best if people self police and remember the long established forum rules. There have been a couple of changes to posting which may be a slight inconvenience so some but un-noticed by most. If you want to act out and post things you should not on this forum (feel free to act as you wish in other places, we're not saying you can't), be aware that your ability to erase and cover your behind has been seriously curtailed. This is due to the abuse of the house rules by a minority who do not wish to be civil to all while on these premises. We do our best to do so, even though some make it difficult. If you simply can't be polite even to those with whom you disagree, please refrain from posting. There's enough madness going on in the world without Leverguns Community contributing to it.

I wish to recognize publicly our moderation staff. They do a great job of keeping this a SPAM free place and one in particular has been vilified for not living up to some people's expectations, because they have NO idea of the "stuff" he's put up with in back channel communications nor are they aware of the "stuff" he's hauled out.

Anyway, this is more than long enough. If you're not willing for your comments/content/etc to be visible to all indefinitely, please refrain from posting. If there is a serious error then please contact an Administrator for assisting in correcting it. There will be no more posting then erasing of content to attempt to hide one's contempt for the Leverguns Community and its long established rules of behavior. If you really simply can't be decent to others, this is not the forum for you.

I thank God that 99.9% (give or take) of our regular posters behave as gentlemen should, respecting the house rules. Thank you to all who help to make this place a great place to hang one's @.

[Bill in Oregon]

All I can say is HEAR, HEAR!

[Ray]

Deleted.

[AmBraCol]

Are you saying we can no longer edit or delete our own posts ?

The time is limited to do so, due to the abuse of the privilege by certain persons. I don't expect this to be a permanent thing, but rather a reminder to folks to keep their temper/whiskey/personality disorder or whatever under control. And there's NO problem in getting assistance from an Administrator for genuine editing needs. I've gotten too many flags on posts that were edited before getting a chance to get back to the office and see what was going on. Some of us have lives to live while others seem to have time on their hands that could be used to better effect than stirring up hornets' nests. If folks will remember the guidelines, we can go back to "freedom as usual". It only takes a couple knuckleheads to cause issues on a forum inhabited by usually well behaved denizens.

[Sixgun]

Oh! I see now...Leverguns is just like Twitter now...."censorship"....

And your caving into the demands of non contributors like Norman Bates of the Leverguns motel. ..he has nothing more to do with his miserable existence than to come over to the semi private thread and twist words. Norman also dislikes my strong personality as I stand for everything that went wrong in his life which is pretty much everything.

Well, I'll have you know that I have contributed more to the real meaning of the headline of this site, which is "Leverguns" in one day than Norman from the Leverguns motel has in his total time....he hides his meanness in other ways like writing my wife threatening messages to her phone. ...but that's OK as he presents a false image of "goodness" when in reality there's a reason why he's an old man with nobody in his life....

But "contributing" means nothing when you don't have the "follow the rules" weak character trait that is needed to be on a hypocritical religious site.....yea, anyone who's been married 3 times and has had 20 jobs in their lives has real issues...but that's not my business....my wife of 49 years, my two very successful children and my single one job of 44 years is....and guess what? ...I never made more than 44K in my lifetime.

My constant condescending attitude towards,Rossi guns really ruffles the feathers...they are JUNK, plain and simple.....An experienced true gun person like myself can get them running easily but the novice, who spends his hard earned money has to have his gun reworked which leads to more money and mental aggravation....ill say it again, a large percentage of Rossi guns are JUNK and it takes someone with balls to say it on an open forum.

Do what you have to do.....I have a full life and for the most part, never needed any living soul to get through life.

Leave this up for the world to see ...by deleting it you are only protecting the bums of society...like Norman Blaine Bates of the Leverguns motel......-------006. (Double O Six). I change for no one..

[AmBraCol]

It's not a matter of censorship. It's a matter of people learning to live together in relative peace. It's a matter of self censorship, for that matter. Act as you will in your home, by your rules in your home, but abide by the level of civility in another's home. IF I were to someday go to visit you in your abode, I'd do my level best to abide by your rules - as it's your domain. That's your right, to enforce your rules in your domain. But when you enter a private forum that has been opened up with an invitation to "discuss ... politely", one would anticipate that somewhere in the depths of the reader's mind they'd actually be capable of understanding and deciding to adhere to that level of communication. There are plenty of other forums that sink to the lowest common denominator. It is my intent that Leverguns Community Forum does NOT sink to that level. That's just the way things are here. We expect folks to be on their best behavior for the good of all who desire to utilize this space to communicate about what we have in common - politely. Surely that's not too much to ask?

[crs]

Paul,
I must have missed what caused this dustup, but I do agree with being polite ( my Dad passed this on to all three sons in memorable ways from a thump on the head to a good belting that I still remember! )
I also agree that political posts belong in the named section of the forum; a section that I personally tend to avoid.

As has already been said Hear, Hear!

[Sixgun]

Paul,
I must have missed what caused this dustup, but I do agree with being polite ( my Dad passed this on to all three sons in memorable ways from a thump on the head to a good belting that I still remember! )
I also agree that political posts belong in the named section of the forum; a section that I personally tend to avoid.

As has already been said Hear, Hear!

CRS,
It's Blaine making constant everyday complaints about me.....he does not like me for any reason and spends his days reading everything I write and then goes tattle telling like a child.

And Paul...I'm the same way wherever I go...I say it like it is......Old Win (Jay) and Fordwannabe (Tom) have been here and they will tell you the same. I had a Target on my back for many years at the plant because I would educate the lesser intelligent on what it means to have a steady job with protections...something that the upper management was trying to break....you know, keep you on pins and needles just so you have a job. I was told that management had a party the day I retired.

Well, in that case I guess there's no place for me here as I do not intend to change. Just like at the plant, management needs to do something with the trouble makers that cause the real issues. Who is the common denominator here with other people? Why it's Blaine "attempting" to topple anyone who is smarter than he is...and that's just about anybody.

Sayonara---006

[Blaine]

Nice try, Six.....If you are trying to force me to respond in kind, you are out of luck. Have a great day, Sir....and, prayers for your soul.

[gamekeeper]

There are many different types of people on this planet and in my 73 years have seen a lot of them, some I've got along with and others not so much.
The first thing I look for in a person is honesty, in my mind that counts way above status or manners. I would rather invite into my home a honest begger than a dishonest prince but as you say Paul, my house my rules.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I want to personally apologize to anyone I may have offended in my time here. No offense was intended and I have no reason to hold any ill will against anyone here. If anyone holds something against me, contact me in the PMs and I will be happy to consider your complaint directly.

God bless each and every one of you.

[AmBraCol]

For the record, I've not heard from Blaine about anything since the dustup back in February, and he can testify that I didn't give him much satisfaction back then either. This post was placed due to incipient lack of civility on the forum. Thankfully it's not widespread but rot needs addressed before it takes control. The rules here are simple, really.

A wise man wrote: "Patience is better than power, and controlling one’s temper, than capturing a city." To paraphrase a bit, "Self control is more demanding than control of others, yet yields greater rewards." Personally, I don't care how tough anyone is or thinks they are. Prove it by utilizing self control on this forum as you (in the generic sense, not pointing fingers at anyone) are your greatest challenge. We come here to get away from "out there" and to meet with likeminded people and talk about particular things of interest to all who stumble on this usually quiet backwater of the internet.

Hopefully we can return to our usual programming of talk on leverguns, cartridges, firearms in general and etc - keeping a civil keyboard amongst us here. How hard can that be?

[OldWin]

I haven't intentionally tried to offend anyone here. Having joined in 2009, I'm still a relative newcomer.

It is hard to "feel out" people online. It's only natural that people gravitate towards some and not to others. I am no exception.
As Six mentioned above, I have been in his home, shook his hand, had financial dealings with him (as has my son), and swapped gifts. I like and respect the man. I can list others here I like and respect, even not meeting them.
There are many, many more I'm sure are the same, I just don't know them as well. Maybe because they don't care for me. That is absolutely OK. I'm not offended. As a matter of fact, if someone doesn't like me, I'd rather they avoid me than be disingenuous.
As my friend Gamekeeper said above, I can tolerate honesty much better than a polite liar.

I don't know why complaints to moderators seem to be a pastime. Now, people who have no idea what even happened can't edit their posts if they make a typo or whatever.
Just like 3rd grade....."someone took Suzy's pencil, so nobody is going out for recess."

Wow.
Pretty much the state of the whole country.

[Bronco]

I don't know if I did anything to insult anyone but I will put out a big " I am sorry" for general purpose

[AmBraCol]

I don't know why complaints to moderators seem to be a pastime. Now, people who have no idea what even happened can't edit their posts if they make a typo or whatever.
Just like 3rd grade....."someone took Suzy's pencil, so nobody is going out for recess."

Wow.
Pretty much the state of the whole country.

Actually, moderators and administrators can also read for themselves. The editing will come back on, probably sooner than later. There were instances of blatant disregard for the simple rule of "be polite", followed by a cowardly erasure of the evidence. Unfortunately I've not found the way to limit an individual's ability to edit posts. Wish I were smarter or had more time to dig into it. There's plenty of places where folks can dump their worst side out for the world to see, no need for it to be on the Leverguns Community. If we can't provide a place for decent folk to behave decently to each other, who can? That's all we're asking, but some simply don't get it.

I do apologize for the temporary issue regarding editing, but things will return to normal in that area soon.

[marlinman93]

Seems to me that the ability to edit one's own post would help in the hurt feelings. If somebody says something, and then later comes to the realization it wasn't very nice, at least they could remove it. But if they can't remove it, it's going to be seen by everyone.
The idea or thought that the person who posted something derogatory is a coward by removing it makes no sense at all to me. I wouldn't call someone coming to their senses a coward for retracting a bad post.

[2ndovc]

The recent behavior has cost this group a couple of good guys as of late.

I was castigated by one individual and then others for a simple typing error that I would have corrected on my own. I hope none of you have to experience what a month long medical coma does to your short term and in some instances long term memory. I type quickly and am usually working on another computer when I'm responding to a post. I don't always catch my mistakes before hitting the submit button. I usually do, but sometimes I might be remembering things wrong. Even in my own collection. It sucks, but there isn't much I can do about it.
Meanwhile I called out said individual for an anti-Semitic remark and all I got was crickets from everyone. If you don't have the cajones to say something to someone's face, don't do it from behind a keyboard.

I got over it.

Respectfully,

Jason

[OldWin]

I don't know why complaints to moderators seem to be a pastime. Now, people who have no idea what even happened can't edit their posts if they make a typo or whatever.
Just like 3rd grade....."someone took Suzy's pencil, so nobody is going out for recess."

Wow.
Pretty much the state of the whole country.

Actually, moderators and administrators can also read for themselves. The editing will come back on, probably sooner than later. There were instances of blatant disregard for the simple rule of "be polite", followed by a cowardly erasure of the evidence. Unfortunately I've not found the way to limit an individual's ability to edit posts. Wish I were smarter or had more time to dig into it. There's plenty of places where folks can dump their worst side out for the world to see, no need for it to be on the Leverguns Community. If we can't provide a place for decent folk to behave decently to each other, who can? That's all we're asking, but some simply don't get it.

I do apologize for the temporary issue regarding editing, but things will return to normal in that area soon.

I didn't mean to intimate someone couldn't read. And yes, rudeness and poor behavior isn't something that should be ignored. This is someone's living room, so to speak.
I understand that, and I hope my behavior here reflects that.
I have to work with lots of different people in my job. While it's no fun to deal with a rude or impolite person, I much prefer that to the very polite and gracious manipulator, string puller, and troublemaker.
As for the editing, in my case at least, it's about typos. I don't delete anything I put down in print. I make an effort not to have to. If I misstep, I certainly hope the moderators do it for me. And inform me of my misstep.

[Bill in Oregon]

Jason ... "crickets"? I don't read all the threads on here, especially the ones that go on and on. Sorry if I missed one that demanded a decent response from all of us.

[octagon]

Years ago, I'd have considered it beneath the dignity of Levergunners to use degrading language like Beaner, Chink, Slope etc, and countless defamatory references to blacks etc, but it is the common parlance of the often cancelleled long threads. Does anyone think this ugly talk contributes to the dignity of Paco' s place here? It is my belief that the 100s of pages if gutter talk does little but Stink The Place Up!
As good manners are the only requirement here, recall that manners might be taught to a small child or even a dog to an acceptable degree. Gentlemanly conduct is NOT a difficult concept.

[CowboyTutt]

Paul, thanks for the heads-up to self monitor. I have seen people go back and delete posts. I'm pretty unaware of most of the infighting that goes on between members. Some of it I have seen. This place is a role model forum amongst forums, not perfect, but a whole lot better than most. Lets keep it that way. Keep the personal squabbling to PM's maybe and not make them public. A toxic forum just causes people to leave. I've not been perfect here either and ruffled some feathers myself, but like to think I am getting better. I keep working at it. Trying. Regards, -Tutt

[Blaine]

Years ago, I'd have considered it beneath the dignity of Levergunners to use degrading language like Beaner, Chink, Slope etc, and countless defamatory references to blacks etc, but it is the common parlance of the often cancelleled long threads. Does anyone think this ugly talk contributes to the dignity of Paco' s place here? It is my belief that the 100s of pages if gutter talk does little but Stink The Place Up!
As good manners are the only requirement here, recall that manners might be taught to a small child or even a dog to an acceptable degree. Gentlemanly conduct is NOT a difficult concept.

Exactly....
Or, made up BS as to assassinate one's character such as photoshopping "evidence" that someone is sending threats to a spouse's cell phone.

[CowboyTutt]

There is more to this story Blaine. I don't approve of what Sixgun said or did. I wish he had not done so. As a school psychologist, we don't ever approve of public denouncements. You praise publicly, and you correct privately. That being said, you have also played a part in all of this, on other forums and by PM's behind the scenes here.

You may think this is not known, but it is.

Since the moderators won't take this on, I offer to help. You and I have never had a cross word. I hope it can remain that way.

This level of toxicity and a vendetta between two members does not benefit the forum in any way, shape or form.

I'm sending you a PM. Maybe we can arrange a way to talk.

Sincerely,

-Tutt

[Blaine]

There is more to this story Blaine. I don't approve of what Sixgun said or did. I wish he had not done so. As a school psychologist, we don't ever approve of public denouncements. You praise publicly, and you correct privately. That being said, you have also played a part in all of this, on other forums and by PM's behind the scenes here.

You may think this is not known, but it is.

Since the moderators won't take this on, I offer to help. You and I have never had a cross word. I hope it can remain that way.

This level of toxicity and a vendetta between two members does not benefit the forum in any way, shape or form.

I'm sending you a PM. Maybe we can arrange a way to talk.

Sincerely,

-Tutt

No thanks. As you said, this is in the hands of the Mods.... I'm comfortable with my actions in the past and in the present.

[Blaine]

There is more to this story Blaine. I don't approve of what Sixgun said or did. I wish he had not done so. As a school psychologist, we don't ever approve of public denouncements. You praise publicly, and you correct privately. That being said, you have also played a part in all of this, on other forums and by PM's behind the scenes here.

You may think this is not known, but it is.

Since the moderators won't take this on, I offer to help. You and I have never had a cross word. I hope it can remain that way.

This level of toxicity and a vendetta between two members does not benefit the forum in any way, shape or form.

I'm sending you a PM. Maybe we can arrange a way to talk.

Sincerely,

-Tutt

No thanks. As you said, this is in the hands of the Mods.... I'm comfortable with my actions in the past and in the present.

BTW, Tutt....this is the only forum i've been on since the early 2000s, so I'm not sure what the heck you're talking about "other forums".
PMs here? Interesting how Private Messages landed in your hands. This sounds suspicious. Anyway, thanks for taking a private matter public.

[gamekeeper]

I have received and sent many PMs discussing many varied topics, mentioning no names only one member here as sent me threatening messages even when I was offering help. Like I said earlier I prefer honesty no matter how rough around the edges to deceitful behaviour from someone who only pretends to be virtuous.
As an adult male I am not easily offended and I also try not to offend others, when in Rome do as the Romans do.

[Bill in Oregon]

Threatening messages -- to our friend Gamekeeper? What on earth?

[AmBraCol]

Seems to me that the ability to edit one's own post would help in the hurt feelings. If somebody says something, and then later comes to the realization it wasn't very nice, at least they could remove it. But if they can't remove it, it's going to be seen by everyone.
The idea or thought that the person who posted something derogatory is a coward by removing it makes no sense at all to me. I wouldn't call someone coming to their senses a coward for retracting a bad post.

I agree on principle. But in practice there was a pattern of breaking the rules, posting from another server's photo repository and then erasing. No repentance, just seeing how far they could go. It reminds me of the time some in-laws came. Their kids were about 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 years old or so. I gave it about 10 minutes to see if the parents would get the kids under control, then started controlling the kids myself. The younger one started banging on what we called "the kids' aquarium" because it was eye level with short statured humans and full of colorful fish with lots of movement. I said, "Don't hit the aquarium, it isn't good for the fish. Just look at them." The twerp raised his hand to whack it again and I grabbed his hand, said "NO!" and directed his attention elsewhere. He went back, raised his hand and looked me in the eye. I grabbed his hand, told him "NO!", gave it a light swat and directed him elsewhere. It took about 48 hours for the kid to learn to simply stand in front of the aquarium and enjoy the beauty of the colorful fish inside - but he learned. Some folks refuse to learn and just want to see how far they can push.

[AmBraCol]

The recent behavior has cost this group a couple of good guys as of late.

I was castigated by one individual and then others for a simple typing error that I would have corrected on my own. I hope none of you have to experience what a month long medical coma does to your short term and in some instances long term memory. I type quickly and am usually working on another computer when I'm responding to a post. I don't always catch my mistakes before hitting the submit button. I usually do, but sometimes I might be remembering things wrong. Even in my own collection. It sucks, but there isn't much I can do about it.
Meanwhile I called out said individual for an anti-Semitic remark and all I got was crickets from everyone. If you don't have the cajones to say something to someone's face, don't do it from behind a keyboard.

I got over it.

Respectfully,

Jason

Jason, the ability to make edits was there all along, but at a curtailed amount of time - due to the pattern shown of the posting of inappropriate content, waiting so many could see and then erasing it.

[AmBraCol]

I don't know why complaints to moderators seem to be a pastime. Now, people who have no idea what even happened can't edit their posts if they make a typo or whatever.
Just like 3rd grade....."someone took Suzy's pencil, so nobody is going out for recess."

Wow.
Pretty much the state of the whole country.

Actually, moderators and administrators can also read for themselves. The editing will come back on, probably sooner than later. There were instances of blatant disregard for the simple rule of "be polite", followed by a cowardly erasure of the evidence. Unfortunately I've not found the way to limit an individual's ability to edit posts. Wish I were smarter or had more time to dig into it. There's plenty of places where folks can dump their worst side out for the world to see, no need for it to be on the Leverguns Community. If we can't provide a place for decent folk to behave decently to each other, who can? That's all we're asking, but some simply don't get it.

I do apologize for the temporary issue regarding editing, but things will return to normal in that area soon.

I didn't mean to intimate someone couldn't read. And yes, rudeness and poor behavior isn't something that should be ignored. This is someone's living room, so to speak.
I understand that, and I hope my behavior here reflects that.
I have to work with lots of different people in my job. While it's no fun to deal with a rude or impolite person, I much prefer that to the very polite and gracious manipulator, string puller, and troublemaker.
As for the editing, in my case at least, it's about typos. I don't delete anything I put down in print. I make an effort not to have to. If I misstep, I certainly hope the moderators do it for me. And inform me of my misstep.

That's the spirit I hope we all have. Typing what I did took some time and many edits PRIOR to posting as ad hominem arguments are weak at best. It ain't the person, it's the principle, so to speak. The pattern of behavior that has been (to MY perception) sinking to lower levels needed to be addressed. I may not have done so correctly, but it wasn't for lack of thought and consideration.

[2ndovc]

The recent behavior has cost this group a couple of good guys as of late.

I was castigated by one individual and then others for a simple typing error that I would have corrected on my own. I hope none of you have to experience what a month long medical coma does to your short term and in some instances long term memory. I type quickly and am usually working on another computer when I'm responding to a post. I don't always catch my mistakes before hitting the submit button. I usually do, but sometimes I might be remembering things wrong. Even in my own collection. It sucks, but there isn't much I can do about it.
Meanwhile I called out said individual for an anti-Semitic remark and all I got was crickets from everyone. If you don't have the cajones to say something to someone's face, don't do it from behind a keyboard.

I got over it.

Respectfully,

Jason

Jason, the ability to make edits was there all along, but at a curtailed amount of time - due to the pattern shown of the posting of inappropriate content, waiting so many could see and then erasing it.

What I was trying to convey here, had very little to do with the ability to make an edit and more so the fact that some are very quick to jump on what was an obvious mistake. Also, to be clear, I've never erased or edited anything other than a typo.

Jason

[CowboyTutt]

Interesting how Private Messages landed in your hands.

Blaine, no such emails, PM's or anything remotely like it have landed in my hands. Witness accounts? Yes. I say forgive and forget! We should always each of us strive to do better. We have saying within my Ukrainian Catholic Church, and to paraphrase it, it says to please forgive me for being "first among sinners". We are all sinners, we all make mistakes. Some are venal sins, some are mortal sins. The venal ones can be corrected if one sincerely tries. The mortal ones, not so much. The important thing, regardless of your spiritual beliefs, is to try and do better, no matter who you are. -Tutt

[Blaine]

Interesting how Private Messages landed in your hands.

Blaine, no such emails, PM's or anything remotely like it have landed in my hands. Witness accounts? Yes. I say forgive and forget! We should always each of us strive to do better. We have saying within my Ukrainian Catholic Church, and to paraphrase it, it says to please forgive me for being "first among sinners". We are all sinners, we all make mistakes. Some are venal sins, some are mortal sins. The venal ones can be corrected if one sincerely tries. The mortal ones, not so much. The important thing, regardless of your spiritual beliefs, is to try and do better, no matter who you are. -Tutt

So, as I expected, you have zero first hand knowledge...got it. Please leave me alone. I've about had it with what other people think of me.

[AJMD429]

.

I always miss the dust-ups, either because I'm too busy or just to oblivious. I guess from what I've seen over the years some of the best contributors to the forum have been people with 'strong personalities' who tend to offend others fairly easily and frequently.

I guess I'm pretty hard to offend, but even if I got offended I don't think it would bother me, as long as there were interesting conversations about guns happening.

I think of it like a holiday get-together, and maybe I wander into a room where there is a discussion going on about politics or race or money or how evil doctors are or whatever. If I don't care for the conversation in that room I go back to where the wine is being poured and have another glass and try a different room. I don't try to get anybody thrown out of the house over it.

[horsesoldier03]

While I understand it is with good intentions, I would like to state, CENSORSHIP is wrong. Whether is is on FB or a gun forum!

I also appreciate everyone getting along, however, realistically that isnt always possible. Right now it seems the LEFT wants to silence anyone who has a different opinion. I honestly appreciate those who are unafraid to speak out even when it is unpopular to do so. They are just opinions, and I doubt anyone's opinion carries any more weight than another's. Unless of course you are a moderator!

[CowboyTutt]

Nobody here is editing or moderating a post or blocking a post. That would be censorship. You can still write whatever you want here. This is not censorship. Its holding people accountable for the words they choose to write. And there is a brief window to change things even then, should you come to your senses. I just recently did so myself for clarity. You can still write what you want here, just know you will be held accountable for what you choose to say. This is not censorship, its just basic training in holding you accountable for what you choose to say.
-Tutt

[Griff]

I sure hope I haven't contributed to this in any shape or form. I've seen a couple of posts that I thought went well beyond gentlemanly conduct, and am guilty of not stepping up and saying something. I am hopeful that a reminder every once in while will not be met with those few good folks that have a wealth of knowledge to share leaving. That would be to our (collective) loss.

[gamekeeper]

Quote from the Doc.
I guess I'm pretty hard to offend, but even if I got offended I don't think it would bother me, as long as there were interesting conversations about guns happening.

I think of it like a holiday get-together, and maybe I wander into a room where there is a discussion going on about politics or race or money or how evil doctors are or whatever. If I don't care for the conversation in that room I go back to where the wine is being poured and have another glass and try a different room. I don't try to get anybody thrown out of the house over it.

Good advice as usual Doc...

[Ray]

Deleted.

[gamekeeper]

Ray, your post has been deleted..

[gamekeeper]

Threatening messages -- to our friend Gamekeeper? What on earth?

Bill, it wasn't serious but if said in a pub I would have asked for it to be repeated outside.

[CowboyTutt]

Ray, things will get back to normal soon I think. Hang in there!

Bill, it wasn't serious but if said in a pub I would have asked for it to be repeated outside.

GK, I like your style and sense of humor! -Tutt

[Scott Tschirhart]

Guys,

I watched the Dave Chappelle show "The Closer" last night. I wanted to see what the hype was all about. I wanted to see what the people who live on social media wanted to cancel him for........it was not what I expected.

The show opened with low hanging fruit that you might expect to a largely black audience in Detroit. But it did not stay there. It became a lecture on how butthurt we get and how we (and in particular some groups) react to it.

But the art was in how he closed the show.

He told a story about a transvestite who wanted to be a comedian. He told of how he and the transvestite became friends (I refuse to disrespect women by calling this person a "she") and how much he came to admire how funny this person was. At one point, during a show where the transvestite opened for Chappelle (and according to Chappelle the set was really bad) the transvestite said something that was really profound. He said that he did not need for people to understand him but that what he needed was for people to believe that he was human and was facing a very human struggle.

I think we all face very human struggles and sometimes we don't behave or respond in ways that others think we should. Sometimes we are mean and cruel....I know that I have been. We all can do better.

Near the end of Chappelle's show, he told the story about how he was getting dragged on Twitter after a particular Netflicks show (I think it was Sticks and Stones). And Chappelle made the observation that he didn't care because Twitter isn't a real place.

But this transvestite posted a tweet in support of Chappelle because they knew each other personally. (I have posted a similar defense of a gunwriter I knew here when people dragged him though he has long gone on.) The transvestite got piled on by the trans community on social media and several days later, he killed himself.

Bringing this back to this thread........I know that some terrible allegations have surfaced where one or more of us has not treated another of us the way we might expect. I'm not taking sides and I don't want to diminish the feelings that are very real. But would it not be better to forgive at this point rather than continue a fued where nobody wins?

[AmBraCol]

Well stated, Scott. If we only have contact with people who are identical to ourselves, we become ineffective and disconnected from reality. Learning to treat people who are different from ourselves with civility (even when "they don't deserve it") is imperative to a healthy development of the person and, by extension, of society.

People shouldn't take social media so seriously. Not even a relatively small backwater of the internet forum such as this one. It has been my pleasure to meet many of the regular posters from here in person and have received many kindnesses from them over the years. It would be easy to make a list of differences between us, but what draws us here is our similarities of interest in leveraction rifles and other more traditional firearms as well, along with a sprinkling of interest in firearms in general and a desire for community which is reflected in the name of the forum.

There have been flareups of discontent and discord over the years, but I'm grateful for the overall tone observed and employed by most of the denizens herein. We must occasionally post a reminder of the level of discourse and civility expected here, but thankfully most of us don't need that reminder.

Sometimes all that's needed is to use the scroll function on one's mouse and to scroll on by. I've frequently found [ctrl a] [backspace] to be advisable (delete all I've just typed) and sometimes simply a rewording of something to avoid ad hominem posts or to clarify some point.

I'm glad we are honored with the presence and participation of many fine men who understand the concept of respect for the principles on which this forum has been founded and run.

[JOG]

It seems in the past 15 years or so that American men have turned into a lower part of the female frontal anatomy! Everybody feeling are hurt!
It's quite humorous to me! This forum is no exception!
If you don't agree with a someone's opinion so be it!
I truly respect people who have a lifetime of firearm knowledge.
Learning from them and perhaps preventing few mistakes that I would have made with out there guidance!
We all know who the good guys are!
Johnny

[gamekeeper]

It seems in the past 15 years or so that American men have turned into a lower part of the female frontal anatomy! Everybody feeling are hurt!
It's quite humorous to me! This forum is no exception!
If you don't agree with a someone's opinion so be it!
I truly respect people who have a lifetime of firearm knowledge.
Learning from them and perhaps preventing few mistakes that I would have made with out there guidance!
We all know who the good guys are!
Johnny

Good points..

[OldWin]

It seems in the past 15 years or so that American men have turned into a lower part of the female frontal anatomy! Everybody feeling are hurt!
It's quite humorous to me! This forum is no exception!
If you don't agree with a someone's opinion so be it!
I truly respect people who have a lifetime of firearm knowledge.
Learning from them and perhaps preventing few mistakes that I would have made with out there guidance!
We all know who the good guys are!
Johnny

Good points..

Ayuh!

[harry]

It seems in the past 15 years or so that American men have turned into a lower part of the female frontal anatomy! Everybody feeling are hurt!
It's quite humorous to me! This forum is no exception!
If you don't agree with a someone's opinion so be it!
I truly respect people who have a lifetime of firearm knowledge.
Learning from them and perhaps preventing few mistakes that I would have made with out there guidance!
We all know who the good guys are!
Johnny

+1

[Scott Tschirhart]

This is one of the reasons I use my real name on line. It keeps me from posting anything I would not say to my mother.

[CowboyTutt]

Scott, thanks for bringing that point up. People hide behind forum pseudonyms all the time. It prevents accountability, which is the point I think you are trying to make.
When you use your real name, you cannot hide. I guess I am actually one of them too even. I have used the forum name of "CowboyTutt" for many, many years, over a decade I think, on different places once in a while, but mostly here. I have only entrusted my given name to my friends who I trust on these forums. My given name is rather common, there are many of us, and I'm easily confused with another man by the same name as mine. Probably, "CowboyTutt" or Tutt is the most accurate name for me on the internet, and where you can find me and write me if you want to. I'm equally imperfect man, but always trying to do better. Humbly, -Tutt