45-70 Penetration Test

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jkbrea
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45-70 Penetration Test

Post by jkbrea »

I took Grizz's advice and decided to test the Leverevolution against Rem Core-Lokts. I don't drink much milk and whiskey bottles won't work so I used two old 6x6 post.
I shot 3 rounds of each from 30 yards.
(FYI..at 30 yards, LE hit 4" high and CL hit 1" high.)
1st LE round penetrated the 1st block and went about an inch into the 2nd block.
1st Rem CL ended up protruding 1st block about an inch and dented the 2nd block.
2nd LE round exited the 1st block and dented the 2nd block. Couldn't find it.
3rd LE round penetrated 1st block and went in about 3" into the 2nd block.
2nd and 3rd Rem CL penetrated through 1st block and about 1-2" into the 2nd block.
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jkbrea
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by jkbrea »

So the deepest penetration was through 6" and about 3" into the 2nd block with the leverevolution but it could've been the wood. All exited the 1st 6x6 although the 1st Core-Lokt stopped against the 2nd block as did one of the LE rounds I didn't find. Overall, they all performed about the same.
I think each would kill elk and can penetrate a grizzly's skull within 30 yards.
Last edited by jkbrea on Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
3leggedturtle
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Nice write up and photos. Todd
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gamekeeper
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by gamekeeper »

3leggedturtle wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:30 pm Nice write up and photos. Todd
+1 thanks for posting.
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Grizz
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Grizz »

GOOD JOB on your tests. it says a lot for the bullets. some I've tested sorta disintegrate doing that cross grain test. you will get a different kind of test if you shoot length wise, with the grain. the bullets have more time to expand. of course, the porch has to donate another leg, but it's for science. :D
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crs
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by crs »

Our penetration test for Ele bullets for our African bullet testing Safari were to shoot them from an 1886 45-70 at less than 2000 fps at 50 yards distance at a suspended steel plate 5/8 inch thick.
Only two shot through :
450 grain NF FPS and 450 grain Punch. None of the others qualified. No jugs of water or boards, just steel plate.
Both NF and Punch preformed well on frontal brain shots on Ele head.

86er and Rkrodle were there.
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Grizz
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Grizz »

Cool Beans. A 142Gr 7.62 Nato makes neat 30 caliber holes through steel plates too. Plates that the hard cast just kiss and dimple. OTOH, here are some 70# lead balls with craters caused by 338 win, 44 mag hard cast, and 525gr 45/70.

I never hunted anything so ginormous as you have. I did read of a famous hunter who used 7x57 on the soft spot of hundreds of elephants, but who knows if that's even true. Not me.

Judging from those poor lead balls, those loads aren't useful for anythiing

.
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Ray
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Ray »

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Last edited by Ray on Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Grizz
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Grizz »

Ray wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:04 pm Most interesting !

Wood, water, newsprint, pottery clay, gelatin, fruits/veggies, plate steel, pachyderm skulls, lead balls.....just when you think you've exhausted the bullet test media themes, something novel comes along.

What is next ?
I don't know Ray. What'dya got? :D
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Ray
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

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Grizz
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Grizz »

Ray wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:54 am
Grizz wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:07 pm
Ray wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:04 pm Most interesting !

Wood, water, newsprint, pottery clay, gelatin, fruits/veggies, plate steel, pachyderm skulls, lead balls.....just when you think you've exhausted the bullet test media themes, something novel comes along.

What is next ?
I don't know Ray. What'dya got? :D
I'm thinking (for self defence ammo) of maybe shooting into a block of a blend of parrafin/soy waxes. Remelt and skim and remould as needed.
sounds like an interesting concoction, have you tried this?

using water I found that the flat nose 380 lands next to the 9mm gold dot in the second jug. that's kind of useful info. I also found another hollow point that disintegrated in the same setup. I forget which one.

I regret not getting a Ruger #1 in 458 WM because I could cross the pressure barrier and really find out what hard cast can do when pushed by 458 pressures.
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marlinman93
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by marlinman93 »

Penetration is good, as is expansion. It's tough to get the perfect combination of both, and when you have better penetration, you'll get less expansion. Or better expansion, less penetration. Wood is OK for comparison tests, but certainly not optimal as a comparison to what it will do on game animals. Water filled milk jugs are maybe a bit better, but they allow far more penetration than an animal's body allows. Ballistic gelatin is best, but has no bones, and for most of us not readily available in enough quantity to do real testing.
We shoot milk jugs for fun, just because they're easy to get. I have friends and family save them for me when we're planning to test loads. My record so far is with my Ballard Pacific in .40-85 Ballard, with a 415 gr. Lyman Snover cast bullet moving along at a slow 1250 fps. It penetrated 23 milk jugs filled with water, and kept going, never to be found.
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Grizz
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Grizz »

THAT'S a record! The muzzle velocity is interesting. What is the twist rate? What is the shape of the front end of that bullet? Have a photo of the round? Have you done gain of function studies to compare velocity increases?

Thanks
Bill in Oregon
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Good to know the LE bullet is as tough as it is.
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Blaine
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Blaine »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:14 am Good to know the LE bullet is as tough as it is.
It looked to me as if it were on the edge of falling apart.
I think this was litigated on the Marlin Board after they came out. The red tip comes off and then you have a hollow point.
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marlinman93
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by marlinman93 »

Grizz wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:57 pm THAT'S a record! The muzzle velocity is interesting. What is the twist rate? What is the shape of the front end of that bullet? Have a photo of the round? Have you done gain of function studies to compare velocity increases?

Thanks
Not sure if you're asking about my Ballard Pacific?
It's a old slow twist like most were at 1:21" twist rate. The bullet is the Lyman Snover, which is a round nose. Like these two are:

Image

Those are a .44-77 Bottleneck left, and a .44-100 Ballard Long-Range right.
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44shooter
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by 44shooter »

I had no idea those Remington loads ran 1600. I thought they were like 1300ish.
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Blaine
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by Blaine »

44shooter wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:29 pm I had no idea those Remington loads ran 1600. I thought they were like 1300ish.
That's what I thought, too, so I jumped on the Remington site, and they have two different loadings of that 405 grain now....
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jkbrea
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Re: 45-70 Penetration Test

Post by jkbrea »

Blaine wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:24 pm
44shooter wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:29 pm I had no idea those Remington loads ran 1600. I thought they were like 1300ish.
That's what I thought, too, so I jumped on the Remington site, and they have two different loadings of that 405 grain now....
I will say those 1600 fps Core-Lokts are very pleasant to shoot! When I shoot the L.E. , I can't wrap my hand all the
way around the pistol grip on my Marlin or my knuckle will hit my nose on the recoil! Same with Buffalo Bore. I keep my thumb alongside the stock. I couldn't believe how mild the Core-Lokts felt and still penetrated about 8" into solid wood. Recoil was like shooting a 30-30! Hit steel out to 250 with no issues.
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