A lot of us Old Guys

[JimT]

We came from an era when Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton were THE sixgun authorities.
In those days most handguns had cylinders, were made of steel, and shot cast bullets.
Rifles were made of wood and steel and had sights that did not require batteries.

What often made the writings of that time interesting was the writers personal experiences using what they wrote about. As an example, Ed McGivern wrote about doing some marvelous shooting and demonstrated it in front of crowds. Some of the writers had been in law enforcement and survived more than a few gunfights. Others were experimenters who helped develop some of the calibers we enjoy today. A few were true handgun hunters who helped change the perspective of the shooting pubic about the ability of handguns to take game. Most of them carried a gun every day. Some lived in the "back country" where a lot of people dream about going but rarely make it.
I am afraid we will not see their kind again.

There were many writers during the 1950's and 60's that most shooters these days have never heard of.
A few of the "greats" from those days that I had personal contact with were:

Elmer Keith
Hal Swiggett
Pete Brown
Charles Askins Jr.
Bill Jordan
P.O. Ackley
George Nonte
Lee Jurras

[gamekeeper]

My interest in firearms started in the late fifties, I read every gun mag and book I could get my hands on. Of course because of where I live I did a lot more reading than shooting. Nowadays I still read a lot but the old books by the old masters are what I prefer. I no longer buy the Gun Digest or Shooters Bible as most of the firearms are of little interest but if I can find an old one from the sixties I will grab it quick even if I had already read it way back then.

[3leggedturtle]

What was Bill Jirdan like?

[JimT]

What was Bill Jirdan like?

My contact with him was through the mail. He was always polite and took time to answer my questions. In those days letter writing was one of the main forms of communicating with each other. As for someone who sat down with him face to face, John Taffin would be the man to ask.

[Old Savage]

John Taffin and Ken Waters were kind enough to answer letters personally in a personal way. I would have to say Skeeter and Jack O’Connor were the ones I liked best along with Finn Aargard.

[JimT]

John Taffin and Ken Waters were kind enough to answer letters personally in a personal way. I would have to say Skeeter and Jack O’Connor were the ones I liked best along with Finn Aargard.

He attended one of The Shootist Holidays many years back. I was blessed to be able to spend time listening to his life adventures. Talking with him was a real treat.

[Bill in Oregon]

Jim, what about Hal Swiggett? I think of him as a man of smaller stature, shooting a handgun of larger stature on the YO Ranch -- just from his articles.

[Sixgun]

I owe those guys a mountain full of gratitude. While most guys my age were sowing their oats, I was buying up the Colts and other 44 Spls they recommended which were in short supply then and are now next to non-existent.

I'd say at the top of my list was Elmer and Skeeter and as the years wore on, John Taffin.

Except for the American Rifleman, I've dropped all of my subscriptions. The writers today, while knowledgeable, are no more than personal advertisers. -----00

[JimT]

Jim, what about Hal Swiggett? I think of him as a man of smaller stature, shooting a handgun of larger stature on the YO Ranch -- just from his articles.

He was not tall. About the same as me .. 5' 10" maybe. Very pleasant to be with. Always looking for ways to help others. He was part of the ministerial staff at Alamo City Baptist Church in San Antonio. I went to church there with him and his wife once, when I was in the area. He had an amazing knowledge of deer and had taken at least one of every species except for Coues Deer and I think one South American deer. He was a great handgun shot.

[Scott Tschirhart]

He was not tall. About the same as me .. 5' 10" maybe. Very pleasant to be with. Always looking for ways to help others. He was part of the ministerial staff at Alamo City Baptist Church in San Antonio. I went to church there with him and his wife once, when I was in the area. He had an amazing knowledge of deer and had taken at least one of every species except for Coues Deer and I think one South American deer. He was a great handgun shot.

That was Hal. A very devout fellow. Very kind.

He had a very short Charter Arms revolver which he had fitted with a small telescopic sight. It was chambered in .22 magnum and was featured in a handgun hunting story published in the Texas Highways magazine. I tried to buy it from his estate, but Jeff Quinn beat me to it. Now Mark Hargrove owns that revolver and one of these days I may be able to talk him out of it.

[Old Savage]

JimT, Ken Waters?

[CowboyTutt]

I like the guys who could experiment and create things and also shoot well. I would have enjoyed meeting Elmer and anyone on the list. I would add Dick Casull and his guns which I believe ended up in the Cody Museum. Someone else who was very influential to me, and is still alive, is Ross Seyfried. He was the one, through my original mentor, to make me choose the 45 Colt for its +P ability over the 44 Mag (sorry Elmer!) Ross is a an avid shooter and hunter and created the 585 Nyati cartridge (which means cape buffalo in swahili) that generates 10,000 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle. Both men were/are extraordinary as well. -Tutt

[hfcable]

He was not tall. About the same as me .. 5' 10" maybe. Very pleasant to be with. Always looking for ways to help others. He was part of the ministerial staff at Alamo City Baptist Church in San Antonio. I went to church there with him and his wife once, when I was in the area. He had an amazing knowledge of deer and had taken at least one of every species except for Coues Deer and I think one South American deer. He was a great handgun shot.

That was Hal. A very devout fellow. Very kind.

He had a very short Charter Arms revolver which he had fitted with a small telescopic sight. It was chambered in .22 magnum and was featured in a handgun hunting story published in the Texas Highways magazine. I tried to buy it from his estate, but Jeff Quinn beat me to it. Now Mark Hargrove owns that revolver and one of these days I may be able to talk him out of it.

That was a charter arms pathfinder with a Hutson Handgunner scope on it. He said he thought he killed more game with that pistol than any other. the idea was so appealing, i mounted one of those scopes on mine. that little pistol was amazingly accurate.

[JimT]

JimT, Ken Waters?

I read his stuff but never communicated with him. Sadly. Man was a wealth of knowledge. No, sorry. I was talking of Finn Aagard.

[JimT]

I would add Dick Casull and his guns which I believe ended up in the Cody Museum.

It was an honor for me to be able to spend some time with him .. shooting some of his guns and he shooting some of mine. I handed him my old Mode 71 Winchester .348 and told him where I was holding the sights for the 800 yard target. He raised it up, fired and in a few seconds we heard that WHANG! as the bullet hit the target. He handed the rifle back and said, "There's no flies on that rifle!"

I shot his Colt Single Action Army .44 Magnum. Built on a Colt 1936 frame. Six shot. Standard size cylinder. I asked him what the loads were and he said they were a 215 gr. bullet at .. I think he said 1500 fps .. if I remember correctly. I fired one through the chronograph and it was about 5 fps faster than what he quoted me. I shot that gun and while it recoiled quite heavily, it wasn't all that bad. For a young guy. He said that the factories could make them, they just did not like doing all the heat-treating that was necessary to make them safe.

[piller]

Jim, sounds as if you communicated with or knew some men who had a lot of fun using handguns.

[CowboyTutt]

I handed him my old Mode 71 Winchester .348 and told him where I was holding the sights for the 800 yard target. He raised it up, fired and in a few seconds we heard that WHANG! as the bullet hit the target. He handed the rifle back and said, "There's no flies on that rifle!"

Jim, that is exactly why I commissioned my model '88 Winchester project in 416/284 McPherson being done for me even though there might have been more powerful cartridges available to me. I was standing right there when it was agreed by Dick Casull and Mic in person that the Model '88 could handle the bolt thrust of the 416/284 McPherson. It would be a very powerful, short action, front bolt locking, levergun. So Mic and I renewed the project, largely because I was standing right there when both of them agreed the Model '88 could handle it.

Sadly, Mic had a whole host of life set backs including the death of his wife and two knee replacements. He could not do the build and I transferred the build to Jason at ABE could and is doing it.
[/quote] Aria Ballistics. https://www.ariaballisticengineering.com/

It was an honor for me to be able to spend some time with Dick on 3 different occasions. It's pretty well documented in Mic's books by photo. I was a "nobody" and and Dick and his wife Jerri were so accommodating. I was not anyone that he knew at all the first time and with my best friend Tym. He was open to meeting with a true stranger. You won't find that quality in anyone but a Shootist I think.

From Jim T. "He said that the factories could make them, they just did not like doing all the heat-treating that was necessary to make them safe.
[/quote]

Yep, that sounds like him. He was a Master at heat treating. His shop and his machines took up a 6 to 8 car garage at a guess at his home. He did things there I and McPherson have yet to report on. We need to. He was always from the get go, the most accessible and kind gentleman ever to me. He had no reason too. I and my best friend Tym were nobody's. It was just how he was. From my first visit with Dick, I knew that I had to arrange a meeting with him and McPherson, and to watch the discussions that might ensue. This ended up resulting in not one, but two visits with Dick and some Shootists. One of the better decisions I have made in my life. I just got to watch and witness, and shoot some one-of-kind guns built by Dick Casull. Some of my most cherished memories in my life. I believe Old Savage was on the phone with me even when I was heading up there I think the first time. -Tutt

[JimT]

Jim, sounds as if you communicated with or knew some men who had a lot of fun using handguns.

Yessir. I have been blessed beyond measure. And I know how much I do not deserve it. I am grateful that I have been able to meet a few of the folks from this forum.

[Old Savage]

JimT, I particularly liked Finn’s practical approach toward guns and shooting. I recall his use of the 375 Win in Africa and the 30-06 here. Said the 338 and 270 would make a good combination here. He described taking a Mauser action and putting a 30-06 barrel on it with some sort of synthetic stock and I think a 4x and thought that was good to go for most uses with a particular 180 gr load he liked,

[JimT]

Old Savage ... John Taffin and I had an old friend, now gone many years. He had a lot of practical use of a rifle in various situations. His advice was "The .30-06 is never a bad choice."

[TWHBC]

Great names, and stories of the past. One writer I remember was Bob Milek, Thermopolis Wyoming. He hunted and guided with both revolver and rifle.
After commnicating with him I chose my first center-fire rifle in .243 Winchester. And later his writings got me interested in a Python.
The .243 has always s been an interest of mine and a Ruger M77 remains with me though I no longer hunt.
The Python just never connected with me so I no longer have it.
But Mr. Milek's writings were always interesting.

[Bill in Oregon]

TW, I never reached out to Bob Milek, but have nearly memorized his two Peterson "books" on handgun hunting. My first experience with a wildcat about 1980 or so was putting together a Contender in .30 Herrett, 10-inch barrel, Leupold EER 2X scope and the chest bandolier, just like Bob's.

[Mike Armstrong]

I still have a bunch of letters from Ken Waters about my various single shot rifle projects. He knew a lot about them and was very kind to write so much to a "kid."

I miss letters--they were worth waiting for and taking the time to write. We are drowning in the stuff that goes with "convenience"--nobody seems to reckon the costs of WASTE. But Ma Nature does and we've been over-consuming her for long time. I fear she may begin to consume us back some day....

[OldWin]

When I was a kid and everyone ran for the ball field after school, I ran home for my dad's modest gun room. I read everything I could get my hands on from the giants of gun writers. Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton were a couple of my favorites. Col. Cooper and Bill Jordan should be included also. These few are probably the ones who influenced me most.
There is no way I cannot mention the man who influenced me most, however. He is not a writer. In fact, he is unknown, and had the most rudimentary of education.
He ran a small, home gunshop in the evenings after work. I met him when I was 12 years old the day my dad bought me my first rifle. It was the start of a lifelong friendship and education on everything firearm related. I practically lived there and he took the time over 30 years to teach me all he knew about old guns, loading, casting, gunsmithing, and anything else I asked. Not to mention the gifts, giveaway prices, and free use of machine tools and free gunsmith work.
Thanks Ken. You're the best.

[Old Savage]

Met the owner in a very small gun shop up your way about 1989.

[TraderVic]

The small gun shops of yesteryear (55+ years ago) are certainly a cherished memory for many of us oldsters. I'd give a chunk of change to visit one or two again, still have the memories though

[OldWin]

Met the owner in a very small gun shop up your way about 1989.

Sorry if I'm derailing this great thread, but I have a few pics of my friends shop.
Mind you, these pics were taken a year ago, not 50 years ago.
Places like this are few in number now. There are treasures buried under piles of stuff, firewood, and dust.
Griff needed some 94 guides for a project a couple years ago. I sent him some from this shop.
The only heat source is the stove in picture. The smithing tools, mill, and lathe are to the right of the wood pile. There is no plumbing. Gotta take a leak? Go out back.
No computer or internet. Doesn't take credit cards. Instead, he has a green metal box with index cards. If you want something, he writes your name down and what you owe. Pay as you can, when you can. Cash or trades. If he knows you, you can take the gun before you pay. A more decent and honest man never walked this earth.
I have countless stories haha.

[TraderVic]

Way cool or what ?!!
Where is this place ? I would consider a road trip to experience a shop like this !
Time to load the truck camper

[OldWin]

Way cool or what ?!!
Where is this place ? I would consider a road trip to experience a shop like this !
Time to load the truck camper

Central Maine.
Sadly, he hasn't had the shop open in several months. With the shortages, it's been hard for a small shop to get stuff. He has had some health recently, also. He owns everything so he doesn't need to be there. He is basically retired. I do hope he can open back up. I still see or talk to him every week or so. He lives a mile up the road.

[Bill in Oregon]

OldWin, what a treasure you have there!

[marlinman93]

I had the good fortune to meet Bill Jordan at an annual NRA convention many years ago, and was pleasantly surprised to find him a real gentleman. He was quite old at the time, and I think a lot of guys walked past him not even realizing who he was. I stopped when I saw him, and was a bit awe struck to be face to face with him. We talked long enough he invited me to sit with him, and the guys I was with moved on after about 5 minutes. I stayed for a half hour, and finally had to go find my group. But I could easily have missed the rest of the show, and just visited with him.

[Woodsloafer2]

I too really like Finn Aagard's practical approach. Francis Sell is another I greatly enjoyed for his practical approach. Read everything Skeeter wrote in all the magazines i could find. For reading pleasure greatly enjoy Gordon Macquarie and Ted Trueblood. They all sure helped shape the interests in my life....