A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5526
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by JimT »

Missouri Pistolmen

Missouri has been discussed and cussed for many things over the years. Once fact does stand out about the State.......it produced some of the first pistolmen the Nation had ever seen. Called "The Boys" by those who sympathized with them, they were known variously as "guerrillas, bandits, outlaws and rebels" by those who did not. When I use the term "pistolmen" I refer to the offensive use of the handgun, rather than the defensive use of it as had been the practice until then. In the days that I speak of they were not called "gunfighters". That term was coined by the writers of Dime Novels of the 1880's. "They were called pistolmen, and they referred to their weapon as a pistol, or by the make .... a Colt's .44. The Missouri guerrilla was the first expert pistolman. According to U.S. Army dispatches, the guerrillas used this 'new' war weapon with devastating results." (from Gone to Texas by Forrest Cater, preface, page xii)

"Revolvers were their weapons. They were the first to perfect pistol work. With reins in teeth, a Colt's pistol in each hand, their charges were a fury in suicidal mania...." (from Gone to Texas page eight) It is said "the Boys" each carried from 6 to 8 pistols on their person and on their horses. "The real secret to their success in combat against a more numerous Union enemy, aside from their guerrilla tactics, lay in their superior weapon, the Colt's revolving pistol. The revolver was the primary weapon of Quantrill's men, and there is abundant evidence that they were deadly with this frontier weapon. It became customary for the guerrilla's to carry from two to eight revolvers in their belts and on their saddles. These rapid firing five and six shot weapons, in addition to the customary Sharps carbine, gave them a tremendous volume of fire power....." (from The Grey Ghosts of the Confederacy by Richard S. Brownlee, page 104)

Not only did "the Boys" have a lot of fire power, they did not have to stop and reload like the Yankees with their single-shot muskets and carbines. Having another pistol has always been the fastest reload. Two or three more makes a lot of sense. Pistolmen of all ages have known that. It has not been a secret. It is only in the last 30 years or so this fact has been lost to the general shooting public. All the shooting "games" have been designed around reloading a single pistol, and none if any has allowed for the use of another one or two pistols. At least not until Cowboy Action Shooting. But real pistolmen, those who used a gun seriously, have always known it's a good idea to have one or two or three more hid on you someplace. Johnny Hopper, a partisan during the Occupation of France in the 1940's, changed from being a mild mannered mushroom farmer to a killer of Nazi's. He never carried less than 2 and often had as many as 6 pistols on his person. Hopper was once ambushed by the Chief of Police in Caan. The Chief had (according to the newspaper) a dozen men with him. Hopper pulled his pistol, killed the Chief of Police, jumped on a nearby bicycle and made a clean getaway. In an indignant reply to the newspaper a few days later, one of the original ambushers claimed there had not been 12 but only 3 with the Chief when Hopper shot his way clear. (from Smithsonian, Vol. 24, Number 3, Sept. 1993) Whatever the truth of the situation, like most who use a gun seriously Johnny Hopper knew the value of having enough of them with you.

One of the lessons we should re-learn in this day and age is the lesson of packing more than one gun. Even if it is just into the woods to hunt Bambi. If you have ever been on a hunt and had something break on your gun, and it was the only gun you had with you, you will sympathize with my statement. And if you are carrying a pistol for more serious reasons the consequences could be lethal.

That the revolver was used an offensive weapon by "the Boys" in Missouri is shown by an account pieced together from reports filed after the fight known later as the "Centralia Massacre". I quote from Grey Ghosts of the Confederacy, page 219-220. "Nearing the Singleton farm, the Union forces topped the gentle rise and saw ... a line of two hundred dismounted guerrillas standing silently to their horses....Major Johnson was a brave officer.... he calmly dismounted his company.....and formed a twenty-yard line of battle. The guerrillas were astounded. ....John Kroger...said..."the fools are going to fight us on foot." and then added, "God help'em." ....led by a screaming Bill Anderson they charged up the hill at the Union infantry. Johnson's men fired one volley with their single-shot Enfield muskets. That volley, downhill, was high, and only three of the partisans were hit....In the next minute the guerrillas, their terrible revolvers popping, had ridden into the terrified Union infantry, through it, and had scattered their horses. Frank James stated that some of the soldiers were desperately....attempting to reload. In a few moments, most were dead...The guerrillas roared back into Centralia and rode over Theis's men....in a little more than an hour the Thirty-Ninth Missouri Infantry had lost 114 men and two officers killed, two men wounded and six men missing."

The terrible efficiency of the Missouri guerrillas with their handguns may account for some of the Government's fear of guns in the hands of it's citizens. At least that may be one of the places where the anti-gun sentiment in the Government got it's start. There is ample evidence it did in Missouri.

Among the pistolmen of Missouri (though he was born in Illinois and was only in Missouri a short time) was one William Hickok, more commonly known as "Wild Bill". Missouri and Mr. Hickok have the distinction of one of the first "wild west" gunfights. Although I am sure such duels took place before this time, Hickok's legacy being what it is has helped fuel the legend. Not being adverse to publicity in any way did not hinder his reputation either. Either way, the shoot-out took place July 21, 1865 on the Town Square in downtown Springfield, Missouri. Apparently it was not uncommon at the time to have armed men around the town. "Springfield at the time had more than its fair quota of belligerent heavily armed men...." ( from Triggernometry by Eugene Cunningham, page 160) The fight was with one Dave Tutt of Yellville, Arkansas. Most folks feel it was over a woman who had been with Hickok and then had taken up with Tutt. It may be, but she later showed up in Deadwood with Hickok and if she held any ill feelings about him killing her lover she never showed it. Tutt and Hickok had been in a card game on the night of the 20th and had quarreled. The next day about noon they were on opposite sides of the Town Square and faced each other. Walking with guns in hand, Tutt fired and missed. Hickok stopped and in his own words "held up the pistol and pointed it at Tutt and fired." The shot was through Tutt's heart which settled the matter. It is 75 or 80 yards across the Square which "...would seem to place Hickok as a cool and deadly marksman. There was no question here...of the 'quick draw'....He saw Tutt coming across the square....He expected trouble....and challenged Tutt, ordering him not to cross the square. When Tutt fired and missed, Hickok deliberately fired his shot." (fromTriggernometry page 161) Hickok wound up in Court over the shooting but was exonerated, the Court ruling that he acted in self-defense. Hickok's favorite pistols by the way were the Colt's .36 Navy Models. Shortly after this affair Mr. Hickok moved on to Kansas where he caused considerable ink to be used in printing his escapades in the frontier towns, first at Fort Riley and then more notably at Hays City and Abilene.

Missouri is also credited by some with the invention of the "Border Roll" or "Road Agents Spin". It was said to be used to extract oneself from a sticky situation where someone had "the drop" on you and told you to hand over your guns. The pistol was offered, butt first to the other person, except it is held upside down with the trigger finger in the guard and the barrel in the hand. As Eugene Cunningham describes it in Triggernomety page 415& 416, "The spin is started by a slight jerk upward of the hand accompanied by the release of the barrel. The forefinger is the pivot...the butt comes upward from the horizontal, describes a half-circle....and smacks into the waiting palm. The..thumb drops to the hammer, cocks it while the forefinger holds back the trigger..." This little trick was used by pistolmen as notable as John Wesley Hardin in later years. Forrest Carter credits the invention of it to the Missouri guerrillas. "It would become known as the "Border Roll" in honor of the Missouri Border pistolmen who had invented it....." (from Gone to Texas page 75)

Missouri has had the reputation of producing some bad men. And it did! One of the more notorious being General William Tecumseh Sherman. It has produced more than it's share of good men. One of the most notable and one who truly was a Shootist was Elmer Keith, born in Hardin, Missouri in 1899. We need some more like him.
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11851
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Grizz »

Good one Jim. Did they all quit killing when Lee surrendered?
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5526
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by JimT »

Grizz wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:27 pm Good one Jim. Did they all quit killing when Lee surrendered?
Well ... it started a few years before Ft. Sumter and I reckon it went on awhile after Appomattox.
The carpetbaggers did their share after the war. And more than a few of "the Boys" were outlawed and continued plundering for awhile.
These things don't start all at once and it takes awhile for them to die down.
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15207
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by piller »

The James gang were part of the fighting. Frank was dangerous to tangle with, and Jesse liked killing.
There was a Blacksmith in Independence, Kansas who helped them to fresh horses and he messed up the tracks on the road to confuse pursuers. He was a sort of short slender fellow with a big mustache named Ephraim Barnes.

NonCombatants on both sides of that war were known to occasionally take a hand.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 32037
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by AJMD429 »

Whenever the topic of a 'truck gun' comes up, if the purpose is a 'get back home if you have to walk' thing, it occurs to me that a spare gun of the same make/model as my CCW gun, along with a dozen loaded magazines, would probably be more useful than a separate carbine and magazines and ammo. Of course if the threat is farther away the long-gun does have an advantage.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8933
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Thanks Jim.
My great grandfather, William Peckham Rathbone Wood, had plenty of respect for the Missouri "secesh" after chasing them for three years as a member of the Third Wisconsin Cavalry. I have his diaries.
Here is Mike Beliveau's take on the Hickock-Tutt shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gGgHs2lPU
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

My people were pretty isolated in Texas during that war. There is not much to show that we participated much, if at all. However, the Landmark Inn had a thick lead roof on the well house and the lead was taken for use by the Confederacy.

We were more concerned with Comanches than with what was happening up north and to the east. Even in the early days of the Texas Rangers (who were militia for the most part and not really law enforcement in those days) there really were not many pistols. The Rangers were more at home with their rifles.

The photo below has three Rangers from Medina County, Texas and it was taken in 1874. I’m blood kin to the two seated fellas. Note that there’s only one pistol in the photo.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Later Rangers were all armed with rifles and pistols. But you don’t see any old pictures of them carrying multiple revolvers.

This photo is from Isleta Texas in 1894. Joe Sitter is on the back row and he was blood kin.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Great article by the way. Riding in on those horses with guns a blazing would be a very effective way to instill terror in the heart of a Union soldier, especially a city boy without experience in such things. Probably had to issue a lot of them new drawers!
Last edited by Scott Tschirhart on Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8933
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Scott, my great-grandmother grew up in Texas, first in San Saba, then near Buffalo Gap. She died aged 99 in 1958, when I was just a kid. My grandmother always told me I could ask her mom about horse and buggy days, but never to ask her about Comanches.
Sure love those great big palm-leaf hats your kin are wearing in the first photo.
TraderVic
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:19 pm
Location: Western WI

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by TraderVic »

Interesting history.....all of it ! Great photos too.
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:26 am Scott, my great-grandmother grew up in Texas, first in San Saba, then near Buffalo Gap. She died aged 99 in 1958, when I was just a kid. My grandmother always told me I could ask her mom about horse and buggy days, but never to ask her about Comanches.
Sure love those great big palm-leaf hats your kin are wearing in the first photo.
I can imagine why! Comanches had to be as scary as Missouri pistoleros.

I love a good palm leaf hat as well. If you get it wet you have air conditioning until it dries out again. I have a good wide brimmed one that I have worn for years when in a pool or at the beach.
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15207
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by piller »

In the city, a truck gun could be a pistol caliber carbine in a backpack. Same cartridge as your primary pistol, same magazines. Enough bullets to make someone regret getting your attention in the wrong way.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
AmBraCol
Webservant
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:12 am
Location: The Center of God's Grace
Contact:

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by AmBraCol »

I remember that article from back when you first posted it, I believe. A couple years ago I downloaded "Three Years with Quantrill: A True Story Told By His Scout John McCorkle" by O. S. Barton. He talks about the "Centralia Massacre" (among many other occurrences) and goes into the whys and wherefores of their use of the pistol. The Lawrence, KS raid is well known, but not the causes for it - which he details in the book.

My maternal grandfather was born not too far from where Keith was. Reading Keith's "Hell, I Was There!" is like listening to Grandpa Stewart talk, as far as mannerisms of speech and such go. The last time I talked with my grandpa before he passed on I finally understood why he always voted Democrat. His grandpa and great grandpa rode for the South and the Federals burned their family out. That kind of thing tends to have long lasting effects in a negative way. McCorkle's account gives the other side to the usually one sided look at Quantrill and men like him.

Down here in Coffee Country folks are surprised to learn that the US also had guerillas. Shucks, most folks back up north don't know it either. This year I finally picked up a copy of the 1860, need an 1851 Navy or 1861 Navy to go with it some day.
Paul - in Pereira


"He is the best friend of American liberty who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion." -- John Witherspoon

http://www.paulmoreland.com
http://www.pistolpackingpreachers.us
http://www.precisionandina.com
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5526
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by JimT »

General Order No. 11 is the title of a Union Army directive issued during the American Civil War on August 25, 1863, forcing the evacuation of rural areas in four counties in western Missouri. The order, issued by Union General Thomas Ewing, Jr., affected all rural residents regardless of their allegiance. Those who could prove their loyalty to the Union were permitted to stay in the affected area, but had to leave their farms and move to communities near military outposts (see villagization). Those who could not do so had to vacate the area altogether ......

Order No. 11 was partially intended to punish Missourians with pro-rebel sympathies, however many residents of the four counties named in Ewing's orders were pro-Union or neutralist in sentiment. In reality, the Union troops acted with little deliberation; farm animals were killed, and house property was destroyed or stolen; houses, barns and outbuildings were burned to the ground. Some civilians were summarily executed—a few as old as seventy years of age.

Ewing's four counties, Jackson, Cass, Bates and northern part of Vernon, became a devastated "no man's land," with only charred chimneys and burnt stubble showing where homes and thriving communities had once stood, earning the sobriquet, "The Burnt District." Historian Christopher Philips writes, "The resulting population displacement and destruction of property (lest it fall into rebel hands) prompted the nickname "Burnt District," as an apt description of the region." There are very few remaining antebellum homes in this area due to the Order No. 11 ...

The infamous destruction and hatred inspired by Ewing's Order No. 11 would persist throughout western Missouri for many decades as the affected counties slowly tried to recover.

More than 150 years later, towns impacted by General Order No. 11 are still less developed than their neighbors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_O ... _11_(1863)
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11851
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Grizz »

piller wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:12 am In the city, a truck gun could be a pistol caliber carbine in a backpack. Same cartridge as your primary pistol, same magazines. Enough bullets to make someone regret getting your attention in the wrong way.
sub2000 fits that job. the sticky part concerns the minutia of the idiotarian regulations
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11851
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Grizz »

it's grisly stuff Jim. thanks for posting. facts are tough things, and unintended consequences are as wicked as the intended ones
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11851
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Grizz »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:34 am Thanks Jim.
My great grandfather, William Peckham Rathbone Wood, had plenty of respect for the Missouri "secesh" after chasing them for three years as a member of the Third Wisconsin Cavalry. I have his diaries.
Here is Mike Beliveau's take on the Hickock-Tutt shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gGgHs2lPU
i've made 75 yard kill shots on deer with a hand gun. it's not hard to do.

AND, no, i did not hunt with a cap and ball revolver, but i am willing to say that, if i had hunted with cap and ball, and fired that revolver as many times as i've fired my current revolvers, then making that shot should have been routine. unless of course those old time revolvers couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

I don't think i could shoot a human being unless it was the ONLY POSSIBLE WAY to protect my family members . . .
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5526
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by JimT »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:34 am Thanks Jim.
My great grandfather, William Peckham Rathbone Wood, had plenty of respect for the Missouri "secesh" after chasing them for three years as a member of the Third Wisconsin Cavalry. I have his diaries.
Here is Mike Beliveau's take on the Hickock-Tutt shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gGgHs2lPU
I have hunted with cap n ball revolvers and what little I did proved to me that they were every bit as deadly as our modern guns when used within their limitations. A 75 yard shot is well within the capabilities of a good Colt or Remington and undoubtedly many of the other gun-makers of the day.
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8933
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Jim, the awful results of General Order No. 11 constitute the opening scenes of "The Outlaw Josie Wales," one o' my favorites.
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5526
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by JimT »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:59 am Jim, the awful results of General Order No. 11 constitute the opening scenes of "The Outlaw Josie Wales," one o' my favorites.
Yessir. Mine too.
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15207
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by piller »

The Law of Unintended Consequences. It rears its ugly head now and again. It does not give a hoot about what you were trying to accomplish.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5526
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by JimT »

piller wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 1:13 pm The Law of Unintended Consequences. It rears its ugly head now and again. It does not give a hoot about what you were trying to accomplish.
If we pay attention, there is a little voice whispering "You might want to seriously consider the ramifications of your actions."
Personally, while I would like to say I listen to that voice, I must admit far too often I have not paid attention.
4t5
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1258
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:28 am

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by 4t5 »

Great article,thanks!
Rumble.com/ hickock45
User avatar
2ndovc
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9323
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am
Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by 2ndovc »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:34 am Thanks Jim.
My great grandfather, William Peckham Rathbone Wood, had plenty of respect for the Missouri "secesh" after chasing them for three years as a member of the Third Wisconsin Cavalry. I have his diaries.
Here is Mike Beliveau's take on the Hickock-Tutt shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gGgHs2lPU
Bill,

My great-great grandfather, Sgt. Ezra Burge, spent a few years in Missouri chasing Raiders as well.
Company H, Second Ohio Vol. Cavalry. After the war and became town marshal in Brighton, OH for several years after that.
I don't have any of his belongings, but we do have some letters from my mother's side. Jehu Hiatt, Third Indiana Cavalry. They fought at Gettysburg as well as many other battles.

jb 8)
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"


" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

JimT wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:53 am I have hunted with cap n ball revolvers and what little I did proved to me that they were every bit as deadly as our modern guns when used within their limitations. A 75 yard shot is well within the capabilities of a good Colt or Remington and undoubtedly many of the other gun-makers of the day.
My first sixgun was a Colt 36 Navy (reproduction) and when properly loaded, it shot every bit as well as my cartridge revolvers do today. I was watching Lonesome Dove again last night and for the first time I noticed the cap box on Gus's belt. It makes sense, but I had not noticed it before. I use a cap box like that for holding .22 shells.
piller
Posting leader...
Posts: 15207
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by piller »

No personal experience with cap & ball revolvers. What I have read is that they were accurate. I have seen people who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with a pistol. Someone else takes the same pistol and it hits exactly to point of aim. It just seems that fit to the shooter's hand is a big part of it. With a 1911, I can shoot pretty well. With a Colt Python, I struggle to keep a 5 inch pattern at 25 yards. With a Ruger Super Redhawk, I can put the bullets right where I want them.
Granted, there are some people who are better with hand/eye coordination and have the ability to calmly face danger. Those are the folks who you want at your side when things are going to visit Miss Helen Ina Handbasket.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
TraderVic
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 727
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:19 pm
Location: Western WI

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by TraderVic »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 8:32 am
JimT wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:53 am I have hunted with cap n ball revolvers and what little I did proved to me that they were every bit as deadly as our modern guns when used within their limitations. A 75 yard shot is well within the capabilities of a good Colt or Remington and undoubtedly many of the other gun-makers of the day.
My first sixgun was a Colt 36 Navy (reproduction) and when properly loaded, it shot every bit as well as my cartridge revolvers do today. I was watching Lonesome Dove again last night and for the first time I noticed the cap box on Gus's belt. It makes sense, but I had not noticed it before. I use a cap box like that for holding .22 shells.
I noticed Gus carried a Colt cap & ball revolver way back when, but always presumed it was a cartridge conversion. I have never noticed the cap box........interesting.
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

TraderVic wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:04 am I noticed Gus carried a Colt cap & ball revolver way back when, but always presumed it was a cartridge conversion. I have never noticed the cap box........interesting.
Gus's revolver is a cartridge conversion in the movie. He doesn't get it out too often, but when he points it at the surly bartender, you can clearly see that it is a cartridge conversion.

There are a number of interesting guns in the movie.
765x53
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1044
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: Bushwhacker Capitol, Missouri

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by 765x53 »

JimT wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:06 pm
Bill in Oregon wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:59 am Jim, the awful results of General Order No. 11 constitute the opening scenes of "The Outlaw Josie Wales," one o' my favorites.
Yessir. Mine too.
Don't forget "Ride with the Devil". Probably too authentic to be reproduced today.
User avatar
Sarge
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 870
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:54 am
Location: MO

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Sarge »

They'll do just fine for keeping garden pests at bay or providing supper, too. 10-12 paces each.

Image

Image
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.
User avatar
wvfarrier
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1452
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:27 am
Location: West (by GOD) Virginia

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by wvfarrier »

The military axiom holds true "Two is one and one is none". Of course, in todays political climate if you were caught carrying two guns (as a civilian) you would painted as a blood thirsty psycho.
A bondservant of our Lord, Christ Jesus
User avatar
JimT
Shootist
Posts: 5526
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:04 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by JimT »

wvfarrier wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 6:57 am The military axiom holds true "Two is one and one is none". Of course, in todays political climate if you were caught carrying two guns (as a civilian) you would painted as a blood thirsty psycho.
I don't care to be painted. That's why I carry 3.
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I rarely carry more than one gun on me and what I carry is a GET THE—— OFF ME!! gun. But there’s always a rifle somewhere around.
Last edited by Scott Tschirhart on Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Steve in MO
Levergunner
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:54 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Steve in MO »

Great article, Jim. I remember when you posted that one. Living in Missouri now, and being a history buff, has been pretty cool.

Like Scott, I rarely carry a second gun anymore. Usually have a Ruger Vaquero 44 Special on me, but there's a Winchester Wrangler .44 Magnum in the truck.
"When the shooting stops, and the dead are buried, and the politicians take over; it all adds up to one thing: a lost cause."
biggfoot44
Levergunner
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:15 pm

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by biggfoot44 »

Wasn't just in Missouri during the War . 43rd Va Cav aka Mosby's Rangers were likewise primarily armed with multiple revolvers , and used them often to great effect .
User avatar
TedH
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8249
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by TedH »

I live right near the Centralia battlefield, and visit the memorial on occasion. It's a eerie feeling when you relive the events that took place there in your mind.
NRA Life Member
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3920
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: A Repost Of An Old Article I Wrote Years Ago

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

TedH wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:01 pm I live right near the Centralia battlefield, and visit the memorial on occasion. It's a eerie feeling when you relive the events that took place there in your mind.
Its spooky isn't it. I don't know why, but some places have a feel to them like that, sometimes many years after the killings took place. I was on the Board Road where Stonewall Jackson was killed and I got the same spooky feeling that I got at Gettysburg. My folks tell me that they got that same feeling touring a Nazi concentration camp in Europe.
Post Reply