Overt Religious Content - feel free to scroll on by...

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Overt Religious Content - feel free to scroll on by...

Post by AmBraCol »

Good morning, folks! It occurred to me recently that many recent newcomers to this forum may not have a grasp on the history of the founders thereof and the background on how it came into being.

Paco Kelly is best known for his work in law enforcement, as well as his extensive experimentation with firearms over the years. Many of us have been intrigued, informed and educated by his writing. What some do not know is his deeply held Christian faith and that he was a pastor for many years.

JimT is another expert in the area of firearms and it was due to his writing that I came into contact with the rest of the crew. His "Oracle Skilsaw Massacre" piece especially convinced me that we're relatives as it relates the kind of logical reasoning that I've observed in my own family over the years. When I first met him he was pastor of a congregation in SW Missouri. A few years later he moved to SE Africa with his wife to work as missionaries there.

JT - also known as John Taffin, is another who has influenced this board in times past. He's well known for his writing on firearms, but some do not know of his deeply held Christian faith.

Back in the mid-2000's JimT sold the sixgunner.com site. Paco had started a Leverguns forum and site on a sub domain there. I offered hosting for leverguns.com on my server space and eventually we set up levergunscommunity.com as a dedicated forum domain as well as the sixshootercommunity.com site together with the sixshootercommunity.com/forum where many who didn't want to move to the newer style forum set up decided to hang out. Both the Leverguns and Sixshooter communities have raised funds to maintain the server space and cover other related expenses and we've got a few different domains/sites related to the subject of firearms, including pistolpackingpreachers.us and christiansixgunner.org .

We do our best to make this a place where all folks can feel welcome, as long as they follow the basic rules of the site:
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Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Some folks forget this occasionally and we usually have a seasonal dustup around about February as cabin fever kicks in and folks get a bit testy. Otherwise, here we are and everyone is welcome - as long as they abide by the rules and the established culture of this forum. What many don't quite get is the reason for the relatively smooth running of the place - the bedrock of which is Christian ethics. Indeed, this is something that underpins the entire US culture, although we've allowed decay to set in there and we're seeing the results. That is something we'd rather not see on the forum.

Anyway, this first post is longer than I'd originally planned so will close it with this little blurb. I'll be posting in this space occasionally with bits of information that may be of service to those who seek to grow in their knowledge and practice of the Christian walk. If you are not interested, feel free to scroll on by. If you want to interject your own partisan version of Christianity, I'd encourage you to do the same - scroll on by. The three men mentioned above and yours truly all come from very different backgrounds in the greater tapestry of Christian belief, yet we treat each other as brothers and respect the differences between us as what we have in common is much more important than what we may have that is different. I'd like to encourage all of us who claim to proclaim the name of Jesus the Christ to follow that philosophy. The aim of this thread I'm starting isn't root out the tares, it's to promote the production of wheat. (See the Parable of the Tares - Matthew 13:24-30)
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Post by AmBraCol »

I've been reading J.P. Moreland's "Love Your God With All Your Mind" and have found a lot of value in his thoughts. Far too many have a tenuous grasp of the foundations of Christian faith at best. We've been bamboozled into thinking that we must "take a leap of faith" and that Christian faith is in spite of reason. But that is not necessarily true. In fact, there are very strong reasons for us to believe in the veracity of what we call The Holy Scriptures and all that implies. Yes, there are many things we believe without "proof", but that belief can be rooted in the evidence that abounds in the world around us. Like the Psalmist wrote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they reveal knowledge. They have no speech, they use no words; no sound is heard from them. Yet their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." The apostle Paul affirmed "The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." The evidence for Intelligent Design far outweighs the supposed evidence for blind Evolution. What we call Science today was founded on the belief that there is an Intelligent Creator Who made the universe with logic and reason and men like Isaac Newton sought to understand that universe. Isaac Newton wrote even more about theology than he did about "science".

J.P. Moreland (no close relation, by the way) wrote:
1. A misunderstanding of faith's relationship to reason. First, while few would actually put it in these terms, faith is now understood as a blind act of will, a decision to believe something that is either independent of reason or that is a simple choice to believe while ignoring the paltry lack of evidence for what is believed. By contrast with this modern understanding, biblically, faith is a power or skill to act in accordance with the nature of the kingdom of God, a trust in what we have reason to believe is true. Understood in this way, we see that Faith is built on reason. We should have good reasons for thinking that Christianity is true before we dedicate ourselves completely to it. We should have solid evidence that our understanding of a biblical passage is correct before we go on to apply it. And so on.
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Post by Grizz »

Thanks for posting this!

It is in your context that I will offer, after the Bible, A.W. Tozer's Knowledge of the Holy as an invaluable aid to discerning and understanding the attributes of YHWH.

Agape,
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Grizz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:17 am Thanks for posting this!

It is in your context that I will offer, after the Bible, A.W. Tozer's Knowledge of the Holy as an invaluable aid to discerning and understanding the attributes of YHWH.

Agape,
I need to get more of Tozer. So far I've only come by some quotes here and there. GK Chesterton is another interesting thinker as are CS Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and many others. J.P. Moreland, Frank Turek, Lee Strobel and Josh McDowell are more recent writers. What I find particularly interesting are the works of those who set out to "disprove Christianity" - but in an honest search for truth. Turek, Strobel and McDowell all fit into that group - and they all came to faith through honest inquiry into the subject matter.
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Post by Grizz »

Paul, not certain but i think i saw Knowledge of the Holy online somewhere as a free download.

I agree with you about the honest seekers who tried to impose their own world view on scripture! A great witness to the power and presence and persuasion of Espiritu Santo.

Tozer is a great and deep thinker, saturated with agape for Savior...

Thanks
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Post by wvfarrier »

My recent affinity for CS Lewis cannot be overstates
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Post by JimT »

I am reading C.S. Lewis's GEORGE MACDONALD. Lewis said that he never wrote anything but what MacDonald was in it. So in addition to Lewis's book I am reading George MacDonald's UNSPOKEN SERMONS. Quite a lot to mine out of both books.
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Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Overt religious content does not trouble me in the least.
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Post by AmBraCol »

Another book I've been thoroughly enjoying is The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization It was my pleasure to meet the author and hear him speak here in Coffee Country a couple years or so back. Most people have NO idea of the positive impact of the Bible and culture around the world. We take for granted certain blessings, not realizing how blessed we are nor yet the fount from which those blessings spring.
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Post by AmBraCol »

Grizz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:46 am Paul, not certain but i think i saw Knowledge of the Holy online somewhere as a free download.

I agree with you about the honest seekers who tried to impose their own world view on scripture! A great witness to the power and presence and persuasion of Espiritu Santo.

Tozer is a great and deep thinker, saturated with agape for Savior...

Thanks
Thanks, Grizz. Just acquired it in Kindle, will devote some time to it after I clear up some of my reading backlog.
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Post by AmBraCol »

JimT wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:37 pm I am reading C.S. Lewis's GEORGE MACDONALD. Lewis said that he never wrote anything but what MacDonald was in it. So in addition to Lewis's book I am reading George MacDonald's UNSPOKEN SERMONS. Quite a lot to mine out of both books.

Thanks, Jim!
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Post by Ysabel Kid »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:27 pm Overt religious content does not trouble me in the least.
+1 (well, plus infinity!)

Paul, thanks for the history of the site. Even for us old hands, it is nice to get the backstory. :D

And thank you for starting this thread. I am really looking forward to it growing!!! :D :D :D
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Post by AmBraCol »

Thanks, Jay.

It's easy for something as simple as the faith that undergirds many of us to be overlooked by folks with out the same values. "The Book That Made Your World" goes into detail in how the content of the Bible really is responsible for the blessings we enjoy. Many are doing their best (worst?) to undermine its influence - not realizing what kind of society we would have without it. I don't want that to happen to this forum. Besides which, I know many of you may find things I read and pass on to be of value. So putting it all in one thread makes a lot of sense (from my perspective). Like I tell folks down here, "I don't necessarily want you to think like I do. But I'm going to do my best to make you think!" Reading and thinking are two endangered items in today's media driven society.
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"He is the best friend of American liberty who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion." -- John Witherspoon

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Post by Ysabel Kid »

Well said Paul!

I hope this thread becomes a source of inspiration to us all, and especially for the younger members here. I am truly afraid of where our society is going...
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BTT
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Post by piller »

Having looked through a microscope at a cell, and having learned that the cell needs all parts to work together for life, it seems to me that random accidents could never produce life. There was a supreme design. Only a Creator who happens to be the GOD of the Bible could do this. Science reinforces my faith. I have no right to claim any knowledge beyond the Bible for GOD's will. What I am saying is that science proves GOD's existence if you just look. If you then listen, all of creation gives evidence.

I thoroughly enjoy learning more of our Creator. Paul, please do continue posts such as this one. JimT's posts from the reloading bench are helpful, too.
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Some random highlights from "The Book that Made Your World: How the Bible Created the Soul of Western Civilization" by Vishal Mangalwadi

Part I: The Soul of Western Civilization
1. The West Without Its Soul: From Bach to Cobain > Page 22 · Location 702
Now , having amputated the Bible , the Western educational machinery is producing “ strays , ” lost like Cobain . It can make good robots but it cannot even define a good man . The postmodern university can teach one how to travel to Mars but not how to live in one’s home or nation .
Part II: A Personal Pilgrimage
Highlight (yellow) - 4. Self: Am I Like Dog or God? > Page 52 · Location 1228
Those who said we shouldn’t judge kept judging those who judged . That showed that making value judgments is an integral , inescapable part of who we are as human beings .
Part III: The Seeds of Western Civilization
Highlight (yellow) - 5. Humanity: What Is the West’s Greatest Discovery? > Page 70 · Location 1503
Therefore let us form not stellar images in metals but the image of the Word of God in our souls . ”
Highlight (yellow) - 5. Humanity: What Is the West’s Greatest Discovery? > Page 72 · Location 1548
Our neighbors did not understand her compassionate impulse because three thousand years of Hinduism , twenty - six hundred years of Buddhism , a thousand years of Islam , and a century of secularism had collectively failed to give them a convincing basis for recognizing and affirming the unique value of a human being .

The West became a humane civilization because it was founded on the precepts of a teacher who insisted that man was valuable
Part V: The Intellectual Revolution
Highlight (yellow) - 10. Languages: How Was Intellectual Power Democratized? > Page 166 · Location 3111
The way to Enlightenment was through emptying one’s mind of all words and thoughts . The goal was to reach absolute Silence . Therefore , the Buddhist monks barely studied their own scriptures . They had no religious motivation to take the trouble to turn their neighbors ’ dialects into literary languages to make the Buddha’s thought accessible to everyone . The monks ’ mission was to propagate meditation techniques to empty everyone’s minds of all thought . They were not out to fill minds with great ideas .
Highlight (yellow) - 15. Family: Why Did America Surge Ahead of Europe? > Page 291 · Location 5309
The only way to make monogamy work is to value love above pleasure , to pursue holiness and humility rather than power and personal fulfillment , to find grace to repent rather than condemn , to learn sacrifice and patience in place of indulgence and gratification . The modern world was created by countless couples who did just that . In working to preserve their marriages and provide for their children , they invested in the future of civilization itself .
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"He is the best friend of American liberty who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion." -- John Witherspoon

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Post by Old Savage »

And all that ..,
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

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"...I know many of you may find things I read and pass on to be of value. So putting it all in one thread makes a lot of sense (from my perspective). Like I tell folks down here, "I don't necessarily want you to think like I do. But I'm going to do my best to make you think!" Reading and thinking are two endangered items in today's media driven society..."

That puts it well....

Thanks for the post.
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Post by AmBraCol »

Do you read your Bible like a lawyer, eagerly searching for loopholes and binding clauses, or do you read your Bible like a lover, earnestly searching for the heart and the will of the Beloved?
Paul - in Pereira


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Neither, there is very informative information in it about the system of the spiritual level.
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Post by AmBraCol »

I find that last sentence particularly interesting. Folks get it backwards and think they can have freedom without morality - and end up enslaved to their passions.
Family: Why Did America Surge Ahead of Europe? > Page 293 · Location 5347
Tocqueville noted that even in the 1830s the French Catholics were providing their girls with a timid , withdrawn , and cloistered education , then leaving them unguided and unaided amid huge social disorder . In contrast , biblical Christians in America were systematically preparing their girls for responsible freedom — to rule their own thoughts , choices , and behavior , and to defend their chastity . Morality bred freedom , and freedom reinforced morality .

The Book That Made Your World, Vishal Mangalwadi
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Unashamed explanation of the God I serve.....

Post by AmBraCol »

Today I received an email from someone I'd not heard from for a while. He wrote a while back, about the same matter, a little something I ran into on the internet and passed on. It was posted in the guest section of John Taffin's Sixguns.Com site and I see that the current webmaster of that site has left it there through the remodel. Anyway, he wrote to tell me how much he appreciated it and I appreciate him doing so as sometimes we all need a reminder. I just wish I knew who wrote it originally so we could give proper attribution.
Unashamed explanation of the God I serve.....

submitted by Paul Moreland

I don't know who wrote it.... nope, it wasn't me. Wish I DID have that power of expression. If blatant expressions of faith in God offend you, please read no more.

He is the First and Last, the Beginning and the End!
He is the keeper of Creation and the Creator of all!
He is the Architect of the universe and
The Manager of all times.
He always was, He always is, and He always will be...
Unmoved, Unchanged, Undefeated, and never Undone!
He was bruised and brought healing!
He was pierced and eased pain!
He was persecuted and brought freedom!
He was dead and brought life!
He is risen and brings power!
He reigns and brings Peace!
The world can't understand him,
The armies can't defeat Him,
The schools can't explain Him, and
The leaders can't ignore Him.
Herod couldn't kill Him,
The Pharisees couldn't confuse Him, and
The people couldn't hold Him!
Nero couldn't crush Him,
Hitler couldn't silence Him,
The New Age can't replace Him, and
Donahue can't explain Him away!
He is light, love, longevity, and Lord.
He is goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, and God.
He is Holy, Righteous, mighty, powerful, and pure.
His ways are right,
His word is eternal,
His will is unchanging, and
His mind is on me.
He is my Redeemer,
He is my Savior,
He is my guide, and
He is my peace!
He is my Joy,
He is my comfort,
He is my Lord, and
He rules my life!
I serve Him because His bond is love,
His burden is light, and
His goal for me is abundant life.
I follow Him because He is the wisdom of the wise,
The power of the powerful,
The ancient of days, the ruler of rulers,
The leader of leaders, the overseer of the overcomers, and
The sovereign Lord of all that was and is and is to come.
And if that seems impressive to you, try this for size.
His goal is a relationship with ME!
He will never leave me,
Never forsake me,
Never mislead me,
Never forget me,
Never overlook me, and
Ever cancel my appointment in His appointment book!
When I fall, He lifts me up!
When I fail, He forgives!
When I am weak, He is strong!
When I am lost, He is the way!
When I am afraid, He is my courage!
When I stumble, He steadies me!
When I am hurt, He heals me!
When I am broken, He mends me!
When I am blind, He leads me!
When I am hungry, He feeds me!
When I face trials, He is with me!
When I face persecution, He shields me!
When I face problems, He comforts me!
When I face loss, He provides for me!
When I face Death, He carries me Home!
He is everything for everybody, everywhere,
Every time, and every way.
He is God, He is faithful.
I am His, and He is mine!
My Father in heaven can whip the father of this world.
So, if you're wondering why I feel so secure, understand this...
He said it and that settles it.
God is in control, I am on His side, and
That means all is well with my soul.
Everyday is a blessing for GOD Is!
Paul - in Pereira


"He is the best friend of American liberty who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion." -- John Witherspoon

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Post by JimT »

However bad I may be, I am the child of God, and therein lies my blame. Ah, I would not lose my blame! In my blame lies my hope.
- George MacDonald in "UNSPOKEN SERMONS, Second Series, Abba Father." -
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Post by Grizz »

Thanks Paul

Amen to that psalm

It is so easy to take the Savior at His Word
Because He is God, and YHWH cannot lie
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Wormwood asteroid, if it hits the earth the timing would put us in the time of the AC and beginning of the Tribulation period now and the Rapture.
2029 would be about mid trib. or later.
Or ya can believe the Gov. that it`s going to miss the earth.

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Pitchy wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:53 pm Wormwood asteroid, if it hits the earth the timing would put us in the time of the AC and beginning of the Tribulation period now and the Rapture.
2029 would be about mid trib. or later.
Or ya can believe the Gov. that it`s going to miss the earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEgzqq9YMLU
Maybe this is the Space Force mission?
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if that one misses, the ones behind it won't
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Re: Overt Religious Content - feel free to scroll on by...

Post by CowboyTutt »

I just read this thread for the fist time. I have actually met Paul in Oceanside, CA, with his son probably over a decade ago. I narrowly missed meeting with Jim Taylor before he left for Africa, but have had a video chat with him since he came back to USA. In that time period my Christina journey has been all over the map. I started out being Protestant. I was actually baptized Russian Orthodox which will make some sense in a moment. I am son of Ukrainian women and American service man. I used to refer to my Mom as a Ukrainian peasant girl only to have her correct me just recently. It turned out we were land owners in Ukraine and if not for WWII and the poverty and land loss that ensued, we were gentiles.

I was not, nor have not, been a very good Protestant Christian. It was only after I came back from Ukraine after maybe 7 or 8 trips, after looking to discover my Ukrainian roots, and attend some churches there, that I began to see something else. I came back from Ukraine one trip, and attended a local Eastern Catholic Church here in Ukiah. Everything came together, and finally everything in the Christian Church finally made total sense to me for the first time. And much to my surprise, it turned out the parish was actually Ukrainian Catholic, not "Eastern Catholic" What are the odds of finding such a church in my small town of 1600 hundred? Is it non-existent.

I am glad this is a Christian forum. I am actually Eastern Catholic although in more exacting words, I am Ukrainian Greek Catholic Person. This means I am Orthodox Christian person. I believe in icons and Saints and the incredibly beautiful churches here in Ukraine and some in the USA. This even includes some Russian Orthodox churches I visited south of Kyiv under the Moscow Patriarchy. They are not as friendly as Ukrainian people, but they are still nice people to deal with. -Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)

"These battered wings still kick up dust." -Peter Gabriel
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