hi, newbie with 50-100 ?

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:28 pm

Hi all. Long time lurker first time joining and posting. little about me. My favorite firearms are my 86 win 45-70 and 45-90, both antiques, i reload both and have taken many whitetails with both but other then that I am a newbie to working on leverguns but have extensive experience in building and working on semi auto older military rifles.
I gold prospect here in Montana and find myself not being able to concentrate on my prospecting or just staying away from some of the best gold prospecting areas because of the ever present Grizzly population.
Of course I wear a pistol/revolver but that isnt the protection that makes me feel comfortable so I want to build a winchester or browning or ? model 71in 50-90 / 50-100 short barrel, guessing 18-20 inches with full mag.
Would like to do octagon barrel.
I have searched the best I know how on this topic of building this rifle in this forum and elsewhere. I found a little bit of info on this forum but the info I found seemed to mainly be dated back around 2008 or so and not much technical data.
Im not sure of which levergun would be the best and easiest to convert, thinking browning model 71 348.
Looking for info on internal changes that may need to be done.
magazine tube attachment reinforcing that may need to be done.
Cant seem to find dies at this time but sounds as if they are usually available.
This rifle is designed for a 50' and under shooter. Hoping for a moderate recoiling 500 gr slug at 1700-1800fps, Is this doable?

Anyway this is a project I have been thinking about for a long time but really dont know much about this process so any help and tips are much appreciated.

thank you

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:08 pm

Welcome, very interesting. Read that a woman was dragged out of a tent and killed by a grizzly recently.

Guess you better have adequate protection.

Post by **AmBraCol** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:08 pm

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like an interesting project, although I can't shed any light on the subject myself I'm sure someone here will be able to fill in some of the gaps for you. What I can do is commiserate with you about the scarcity of loading dies/molds/components. This isn't the best year to be getting into a new to you caliber, for sure. I was finally able to source components and dies for one of my projects thanks to the generous folks on this forum, but it wasn't nearly as esoteric as a 50-100. The one 50 caliber that really strikes my fancy is the old 50 Government (50-70) as the precursor to the 45-70 and such. I've an itch for an old Rolling Block or Trapdoor in that caliber, but they don't pop up very often.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:10 pm

Welcome to the fire Montana22, that's quite a project you got there.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:34 pm

Glad to have ya! Yup tinkering is a good trait for this bunch. I can't help ya but Fordwannabe is doing a 50-110 conversion. Im sure he will see this and chime in soon!
Have you started to source a barrel yet?

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:44 pm

I highy recommend a YouTube channel called "Leverguns 50"

His videos are entertaining, and his content will probably answer most of your questions about the .50-110. He's a good guy too.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:49 pm

Moving a 71 from 348 Win to 50-110 WCF or 450 Alaskan is probably the best path forward. I would think an 86 in 45-90 would be formidable unless it's without a nickel steel barrel and needs to be run at lower pre-smokeless pressures. You should be able to get 50-110 brass online and even 450 Alaskan from Qual-Cart. I usually have to thin the necks on the Qual-Cart stuff to bring them to spec. I do miss Mike D.'s informative comments on the 1886 line of guns/carts these days.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:13 pm

Hi rimfire, yes both of my 86s are NOT nickel steel, 1889 and 1891 and both are full length 26" which is to long for a compact rifle.
I have pondered the idea of building a modern 45-90 since I have all i need to reload it, but am a tinkerer so new ground is the place for me as long as i can find dies. If i can purchase dies then I will start the project.
with help from this forum.

Leverguns 50, just found that you tube site yesterday, i like it.
thanks

M. M. Wright · Post by **M. M. Wright** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:55 pm

Hi there Montana22. Sounds like a great project. I had a 50 Express that was built on a Browning 71 action with an original Winchester barrel. I couldn't get it to group worth a flip so I traded it for a really good 73. I have a Browning 86 SRC, in 45-70 of course but mine has the barrel cut off 3 inches which makes it exactly the same length over-all as a 20 inch 94 SRC. Plenty of power for me and handy too. I've always thought it would make a great fishing rifle for Alaska which is close to what you want to use one for.

"Don't force it, get a bigger hammer!"

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:03 pm

mm wright, ive been tempted for 40 years to buy a nice 73, still havnt done it. yes my src 50 cal will be a fish shooter.
Been searching for dies and may end up going with 50 alaskan .200" shorter case which should allow room for a 500 grain bullet to feed nicely in a model 71.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:19 pm

Hello Montana

Of course I wear a pistol/revolver but that isn't the protection that makes me feel comfortable

i hunted for food in SE Alaska for quite a while, right in amongst the coastal brownies, none of whom ever had anything nice to say.

2 things you might consider. I have a 5-1/2" redhawk 44mag that i load with a 405gr hardcast bullet from beartooth bullets to around 960 fps or so. Marshall Stanton loads hotter, to 1030 i think. if you do the math on this load you will find that it lands in the TKO range of the buffalo guns. it's easy shooting from my redhawk.

the second thing is that i shoot a 525gr hard cast bullet from my 45/70 that exits my guide gun around 1450. I've shot this from Blaine's BFR 10 inch revolver, it's not painful, it's controllable, it's a freight train. it ran at 1310 from that barrel. I think. I posted the loads for the 525gr BTB on another topic, along with the energies of the 525 at 1300+

there are revolvers with buffalo class energies.

but don't quit on your 50 cal project, I've long admired that one.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 3:40 pm

hi grizz nice of you to chime in. I load my 44 mag with 300 gr hard cast lfn gas checks, if i remember correctly somewhere around 1200, havnt tried the 400 gr slugs. But i do know what my antique 45-70 shooting 405gr hard cast rnfp gas checks at 1350 do to a 1/4" steel plate at 250 yards, hole the size of my thumb right thru it while my 7mag wont even dent it. Im sold on big slow slugs.
Just dont know how good i would be with a pistol at close range compared to a short barreled rifle, with a pistol/revolver backup if needed of course.
And mainly i just like the idea of a saddle ring carbine 50 cal. sounds like a fun project to me.

crs · Post by **crs** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:14 pm

Welcome aboard Montana 22.
WRT your project options, here is food for thought.
1.A Miroku/Winchester 1886 extra light in .45-90. My Miroku 1886 .45-90 with 26 inch octagon barrel would be too large but it does chamber and fire 500 grain Cowboy Action ammo with long nosed bullets, BUT that bullet is really a bit to long. By loading a blunt bullet it should work fine. It can shoot 450 grain Punch and 450 NF solids at 2150 fps which have taken elephant and Cape Buff. You could raise the weight to 500 grains and back off on the load and be in your ball park with such a .458 2.4 (45-90).

2. Try a Winchester 1895 .405 WCF with 300 or 400 grain handloads. These rifles have taken the biggest game in Africa and the 400 grain Woodleigh Weldcore bullet at 2100 - 2200 fps should get the attention of the biggest of bears. The rifle is handy as is with 24 inch barrel without any customization:

An advantage of these calibers is availability of ammo and loading equipment.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:42 pm

Hi crs. the 1895 is on my list for down the road, thats a beauty.. Right now its a companion for my two antique 86s. I have really thought long and hard on a 45-90 and I might end up there if I cant find any 50-100 or 50 alaskan dies, which I havnt been able to find.

Do have a few question for you. Hopefully not to many questions for you, thanks.

Did Browning and Winchester both have a modern 86 rifle made by Miroku?
Is that a Winchester Miroku in the pic?
What years were the Miroku rifles built?
Are the Miroku rifles set up to handle the case of the 50 like the model 71 .348
Do all the Miroku rifles come with the tang safety?
Are the Miroku rifles set up with two rear tang screws to accommodate a tang peep?

The only problem I have with the browning 71 is the pistol grip and the standard butt. I really want a straight grip, crescent butt rifle to start my project with just like in your pic.
thanks

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:39 pm

Welcome friend. If it was me contemplating such a build, I'd sure try to talk to Buck for some direction.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:27 pm

If you have the funds and want a similar result ballistically, consider a Big Horn Armory model 89 18” carbine in 500 S&W; 7+1 capacity and very rugged design. Easy to shoot (feels like a 20 gauge slug gun to me) but the TKO is way up there over 50, and ft-lb energy over 4,000. Wide meplat courtesy of the 0.500” bullet diameter.

I agree a ‘build’ would be fun though, if you have the time and skills and inclination.

win40-82 · Post by **win40-82** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:50 pm

A good .22 revolver is the best suggestion, won't kill a griz but you can put yourself out of misery .

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:32 pm

I think if I was grizzly or other big bear country I would seriously consider a 12 gauge auto with slugs or Brennke "Magnum Crush " slugs. https://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-amm ... m-crushtm/

At the range you mentioned, a Remington "Slugger Rifled Slug" -- 1 oz. lead --will pack a great deal of energy. https://www.tds-us.com/remington-slugge ... 75-sp12rs/

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:53 am

Ray, that's a very practical outfit you suggest. When Dad, brothers and I did a fly-fishing trip out of Wrangell up the Stikine River 25 years ago, our guide left us with a Mossberg pump loaded with Brennekes. He said that is what he and his family always carried in grizzly country, along with an "Alaskan early warning system," also known as a dog.
But it is not nearly as romantic and cool as a lever gun in .50-100.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:23 am

Montana22 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:13 pm Hi rimfire, yes both of my 86s are NOT nickel steel, 1889 and 1891 and both are full length 26" which is to long for a compact rifle.

Yeah, I had one of my 71's converted to a takedown and added a 20" 450 Alaskan barrel. It handles nicely at that length.

crs · Post by **crs** » Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:10 am

Montana 22 asked:
Do have a few question for you. Hopefully not to many questions for you, thanks.

Did Browning and Winchester both have a modern 86 rifle made by Miroku? YES
Is that a Winchester Miroku in the pic? YES
What years were the Miroku rifles built? MANY, but I do not remember.
Are the Miroku rifles set up to handle the case of the 50 like the model 71 .348 ? I have read that they can be had in .50-110, but I cannot personally confirm.
Do all the Miroku rifles come with the tang safety? YES for Winchester. Maybe not for Browning.
Are the Miroku rifles set up with two rear tang screws to accommodate a tang peep? NO for Winchester, but the Marbles peep tang on my 1886 does fasten securely with the one screw. Picture:

A bit of the front of the comb on my 1886 was removed to allow the elevated peep to fold fully back to lock position. The Marbles folding barrel sight makes a good combination with the peep.

I use the barrel sight for big game up close (ele, Cape buff, bison, etc) and the peep for more distant targets such as a Pronghorn (in Africa that was a tom leopard eating a farmers goat) .

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:26 am

Montana22 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:28 pm Hi all. Long time lurker first time joining and posting. little about me. My favorite firearms are my 86 win 45-70 and 45-90, both antiques, i reload both and have taken many whitetails with both but other then that I am a newbie to working on leverguns but have extensive experience in building and working on semi auto older military rifles.
I gold prospect here in Montana and find myself not being able to concentrate on my prospecting or just staying away from some of the best gold prospecting areas because of the ever present Grizzly population.
Of course I wear a pistol/revolver but that isnt the protection that makes me feel comfortable so I want to build a winchester or browning or ? model 71in 50-90 / 50-100 short barrel, guessing 18-20 inches with full mag.
Would like to do octagon barrel.
I have searched the best I know how on this topic of building this rifle in this forum and elsewhere. I found a little bit of info on this forum but the info I found seemed to mainly be dated back around 2008 or so and not much technical data.
Im not sure of which levergun would be the best and easiest to convert, thinking browning model 71 348.
Looking for info on internal changes that may need to be done.
magazine tube attachment reinforcing that may need to be done.
Cant seem to find dies at this time but sounds as if they are usually available.
This rifle is designed for a 50' and under shooter. Hoping for a moderate recoiling 500 gr slug at 1700-1800fps, Is this doable?

Anyway this is a project I have been thinking about for a long time but really dont know much about this process so any help and tips are much appreciated.

thank you

I have a Marlin Cowboy that was converted to 50 Alaskan and a Turnbull manufactured 50-110 on an 1886. Turnbull also did my Marlin.
On the Marlin, almost everything in front of the action had to be replaced. The cowboy barrel from the factory was not heavy enough to be rebored because of the dovetail cut for the sights. A standard version or guide gun would not have this problem. The forearm was also replaced as it needed a larger diameter. The magazine tube and spring was reused.
As far as the 86, 50-110 was a factory chambering so, no big deal. Turnbull manufactures an accurate 86 rifle. They also manufacture the rifle with no tang safety and of course, it is like Winchester in the day as you tell them what you want. Mine, case finish, shotgun butt and 32 inch Octogon barrel. I sometimes use mine in long range Cowboy Action Matches so it holds 10+1. No reloading needed.

Reloading dies are available, but not easy to find. For the 50 Alaskan, Wild West Guns had them in stock (12 years ago) and they were around $100.00 at the time ( 30-06 dies were about $25.00 then). For the 50-110, I ran onto a set of RCBS Cowboy Action die set (about 10 years ago), and they ran about $65.00 then. My guess is they would be much more expensive now.

For plinking, I use the lee mold that drops a 500 grain lead. I have not had leading problems with it at 1600 to 1800 fps.
For a new build, you can use a Winchester 71 or 86, a Browning version of the same or Pedrosolli is also making a 71 clone now. The Marlin will work for a 50 Alaskan, but is too short for a 50-110.
As far as making it work, Turnbull told me making them feed correctly in a Marlin took some work, but pretty straight forward in the Winchester rifles. The feed rails were the main concern on the 86 in making it run smooth.
Overall cartridge length is a concern in the Marlin, it feeds best at 2.55 inches. Ammo shorter or longer will force you to double clutch or work the action like you stole it.

If I was doing another one, I would pick up one of the Japanese "extra light" Winchesters to convert. As light of lighter than my Marlin and a stronger action because it is beefier in the barrel/ mag tube attachment area. Either chambering would work.

I have dropped 3 bears with the 50 Alaskan, my hunting guide commented "I need one of those", he had never seen a bear that dropped dead right there with a golf ball sized hole on the point of shoulder offside.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:40 am

ajmd--Big Horn Armory model 89 18” carbine in 500 S&W; 7+1 capacity, I have looked at these and they look very interesting.
ray--I do have a semi auto slug gun and love it just havnt bought an 18" barrel for it.
I think bill in oregon said it correctly "But it is not nearly as romantic and cool as a lever gun in .50-100."src that is.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:51 am

buckeyeshooter, rimfire, i havnt studied the 50 alaskan as of yet, but since the case is .200 shorter then the win 50 assuming the chamber in the 50 alaskan is cut deep enough for 500+gr slugs to be seated normally?

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:51 am

crs, thank you for answering all my questions, the info really helps.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:13 pm

crs, buckeyeshooter, great info, I am NOT up to date at all on modern leverguns, after getting crs's response and now yours i have been looking for the japanese winchester (is it called a model 71) and has sealed the deal for me on that rifle, but have zero luck finding one,i'm not very techy.
In a web search bar ,what would be the correct wording to locate the Japanese lightweight Winchester, and is that in 348 cal. OR what cal rifle should I look for that will require the least amount of internal workings to handle the .50cal case?

Wild west guns doesnt show any dies, actually i have spent days looking for either set of dies and come up empty.
I would like to use the standard win 50-100-450 loading just to keep it a winchester rifle but guess i shouldnt be so sentimental. SO the 50 alaskan sounds great also, whatever set of dies I can find.

What twist rate do you folks recommend for 500gr lrnfp. guessing 20"?

thank you all for the welcome and your responses.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:35 pm

crs. I have a marbles/lyman (cant remember) peep on my 45-90 along with the standard of the antique era barrel sights..Its really interesting shooting with all three sighting plains lined up together. I have mine sighted for 100yds thats about all my old eyes can handle.
I havent shot any open sight rifle so well as that 45-90 sighting system. Having those three sights set together its almost like the shooter cant aim un-correctly.

I really like that marbles folding rear site on your rifle. thanks for the great pics.

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:30 am

"Ray, that's a very practical outfit you suggest. When Dad, brothers and I did a fly-fishing trip out of Wrangell up the Stikine River 25 years ago, our guide left us with a Mossberg pump loaded with Brennekes....But it is not nearly as romantic and cool as a lever gun in .50-100."
--Bill in OR

Bill: may be not as "romantic or cool" as lever .50-100, but if big bears are at close range, a 12 gauge pump and Brennekes trumps "cool and romantic"....

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:48 am

Montana22 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:51 am buckeyeshooter, rimfire, i havnt studied the 50 alaskan as of yet, but since the case is .200 shorter then the win 50 assuming the chamber in the 50 alaskan is cut deep enough for 500+gr slugs to be seated normally?

Yes, I shoot 535 grain woodleigh's for hunting loads.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:09 am

Montana22 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:13 pm crs, buckeyeshooter, great info, I am NOT up to date at all on modern leverguns, after getting crs's response and now yours i have been looking for the japanese winchester (is it called a model 71) and has sealed the deal for me on that rifle, but have zero luck finding one,i'm not very techy.
In a web search bar ,what would be the correct wording to locate the Japanese lightweight Winchester, and is that in 348 cal. OR what cal rifle should I look for that will require the least amount of internal workings to handle the .50cal case?

Wild west guns doesnt show any dies, actually i have spent days looking for either set of dies and come up empty.
I would like to use the standard win 50-100-450 loading just to keep it a winchester rifle but guess i shouldnt be so sentimental. SO the 50 alaskan sounds great also, whatever set of dies I can find

What twist rate do you folks recommend for 500gr lrnfp. guessing 20"?

thank you all for the welcome and your responses.

The lightweight I was thinking of was a 45/70. Here is a video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuH2z9Yumxo .

For dies, here is a custom maker. https://www.ch4d.com/Media/files/manuals/ds.pdf ch4d has been making die sets for years. I have a set of 470 Capstick dies they made for me. (458 Lott opened up to .475 diameter). They do good work and have a good reputation. I have no idea on cost as my die set was made in 1999. I checked Huntington's in Ca. they own RCBS but had no listing. You could contact them as they have made them in the past.

as far as twist, I told Turnbull I wanted to shoot from 300 to 500 grain bullets and let them calculate the twist. I don't even know what mine are but the rifles shoot tighter than I can hold.

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:33 am

I told Turnbull the same about bullet weight and they put a 1-16 twist on mine !

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:39 pm

thanks for the responses folks. Great web site--https://www.ch4d.com/Media/files/manuals/ds.pdf---wow.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:48 pm

CRS... your pic of your miroku shows straight stock and crescent butt....I seem to be able to find "web pics" of straight stock rifles but cant find any with crescent butt. Is yours a special addition ?

crs · Post by **crs** » Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:28 pm

My 1886 45-90 TD was one of 500 (or 501) made for Davidsons and they all had the crescent butt plate. At 9.5 pounds unloaded, it is not light, but the weight soaks up a lot of the recoil.
Mounted properly, with the lower point of the butt plate in the arm pit, the recoil causes the rifle to rotate up and then settle back down just in time to have levered in another round for the next shot. It then settles down right on target (target is usually down flat on ground by then). Keep both eyes open and you never lose sight of the target, even if it has hit the dirt.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:11 am

With the minimal schooling I have in this subject seems as though a miroku in 348 is the way to start this project due to the magazine, lifter and other parts designed for the 348 which is based on the 50 cartridge which means less interior work and the mag is already designed for 50cal.

Does anyone have any knowledge about fitting a straight stock crescent butt to a Browning miroku.
I can source pre cut Winchester stocks that need finishing but have no idea on how tangs etc will match up on a Browning miroku, I assume they won't.

Any ideas on how to proceed on this subject?

OR did miroku make a a straight stock crescent I just can't find?

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:06 am

Speaking for myself, I would not want to shoot a 50 without a shotgun butt. I have a winchester 1895 carbine in 30-06 with the curved steel one ..... and it hurts to shoot. I have 7 other 30 -06 rifles and they are a pleasure.

I like the shotgun butt and the marlin 50 has been fitted with a decelerator pad when the conversion was done. It kicks less than a standard marlin 1895 in 45/70 shooting 400 grain bullets at 2000 fps. It is a heavier gun but much more comfortable to shoot.

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:39 am

Hello Montana22! Welcome to the forum. First, what part of the Big Sky are ya from? I graduated from HS in Deer Lodge and went to aircraft mechanics school at the Vo-tech in Helena(a looong time ago). I have an original beater 86 at Mike Hunter restorations as we speak, for a conversion to 50-110. I was able to get the barrel re-bored and was able to shoot the gun single shot but my local gunsmith was honest enough he didn't trust his ability to finish the job, so I sent it to Mike. The lifter, s hook, lever, loading gate, and frame all need modification. I was able to shoot it some just couldn't get it to feed until I sent it off. I am using the MP molds 525gr HP (the mold has been out of stock for a year but I am on the notification list, brass is available and not tooooooo expensive. I had been thinking of this conversion for years and had found a set of 50-70 dies in a friends box of odds and ends, hey it's only for one rifle and it's straight wall, sooooo works fine. I called Accurate arms and they have load data for multiple levels of power using 5744. If you use a modern rifle you can really run the power up on them(see youtube levergun50), but because of the old steel in mine I am only going mild to mid level (just gonna shoot 150 pound white tails with it, hope it's enough gun

). If I can answer any of your questions let me know. Good luck with your project.

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:11 pm

My conversion was from a brownchester M 71! I would suggest trying out the pistol grip then decide if you want a straight grip instead. I was happy with the pistol grip. I even put a decelerator recoil pad on it! The recoil is pretty stout when pushing 527 grains nearly 2000 fps. I don't recommend shooting prone and have a sled when shooting off the bench. But then again I am a recoil sissy.

fordwannabe · Post by **fordwannabe** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:14 pm

A little 50 cal porn. The teenie tiny middle one is a 255 grain 45colt. Hehe.

78D19DD4-521A-4C2A-A91A-E8ED30AC07B2.jpeg

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:35 pm

fordwannabe thanks for chiming in.
I live in Bozeman, its not the small cowboy town anymore, been here 30 years and am looking for a small town to move to.
You had your 86 rebored from what caliber? I am going to start with a browinchester model 71 348, so hopefully wont have to do to much interior machine work.
Will have to hit you guys up once I find my donor rifle.
Love those coated bullets of yours. I shoot coated lead also and love it.

Montana22 · Post by **Montana22** » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:36 pm

Bronco, I will try the pistol grip especially since I am looking for the browning 71 in 348. slide on decelerator pad is my friend on my 45-90.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:40 am

fordwannabe wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:14 pm A little 50 cal porn.

What weight are the 50s and would they chamber in a 50Beo?

butlerj · Post by **butlerj** » Thu Nov 03, 2022 5:18 pm

You’ll need the nearly impossible to find load data below.

Caliber: 50-110 Winchester. (2.4”)
Case length: ca 2.4”/60.96
Case capacity: ca 7.012cc/108grs H2O
Barrel: 30”
Powder: Accurate -- 5744®.
Note: The “low” loads are reduced loads---- ca Black Powder performance.
Bullet weight: 300 -325 grain (L) Cast
Low load: 37.0 grains (1750 – 1850 Fps)
Mid Range load: 47.0 grains (2000 – 2100 Fps)
Maximum load: 53.0grains (2200 – 2300 Fps)
Bullet weight: 350 grain (L) Cast.
Low load: 38.0 grains (1600 – 1700 Fps)
Mid Range load: 45.0 grains (1800 – 1900 Fps)
Maximum load: 51.0grains (2100 – 2200 Fps)
Bullet weight: 420 grain (L) Cast.
Low load: 35.0 grains (1400 – 1500 Fps)
Mid Range load: 42.0 grains (1600-1700 Fps)
Maximum load: 50.0grains (2000-2100 Fps)
Bullet weight: 450 grain (L) Cast.
Low load: 33.0 grains (1300 – 1400 Fps)
Mid Range load: 42.0 grains (1650-1750 Fps)
Maximum load: 47.0grains (1900-2000 Fps)
Bullet weight: 500 grain (L) Cast.
Low load: 29.0 grains (1300 – 1400 Fps)
Mid Range load: 35.0 grains (1500-1600 Fps)
Maximum load: 39.0grains (1600-1700 Fps)
Bullet weight: 550 grain (L) Cast.
Low load: 26.0 grains (1150 – 1250 Fps)
Mid Range load: 32.0 grains (1350 – 1450 Fps)
Maximum load: 36.0grains (1500 – 1600 Fps)
Bullet weight: 700 grain (L) Cast.
Low load: 23.0 grains (1000 – 1100 Fps)
Mid Range load: 29.0 grains (1200 – 1300 Fps)
Maximum load: 33.0grains (1300 – 1400 Fps)

Powder: Accurate -- 2015®
Bullet weight: 350 grain (L) Cast.
Start load: 67.5 grains (2050 – 2150 Fps)
Maximum load: 75.0grains (2250 – 2350 Fps)
Bullet weight: 420 grain (L) Cast.
Start load: 63.0 grains (1800-1900Fps)
Maximum load: 70.0grains (1950-2050 Fps)
Bullet weight: 450 grain (L) Cast.
Start load: 56.0grains (1625 - 1725 Fps)
Maximum load: 62.0grains (1900-2000 Fps)
Bullet weight: 500 grain (L) Cast.
Start load: 53.0 grains (1575-1675Fps)
Maximum load: 59.0 grains (1700-1800Fps)

CPBC 410-gr. PB/40.0-gr. XMR5744 1,505
CPBC 435-gr. GC/40.0-gr. XMR5744 1,511
CPBC 525-gr. GC/37.0-gr. XMR5744 1,337
CPBC 525-gr. GC/79.0-gr. H4895 2,052

joepb · Post by **joepb** » Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:47 pm

Browning 1895 bored out to 35 Whelen and shoot the old Barnes 300 grain bullet will kill about anything that bites.....Joe

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:24 pm

Beautiful rifle and cartridge! -Tutt

Bearskinner · Post by **Bearskinner** » Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:07 pm

I have a Browning Model 71 Winchester, high grade in 348, at “Oregunsmithing” with Wayne York. I’m having him ream the 20” barrel to .509, and chamber for a Long 50 Alaskan to the length of the Starline 50-110 brass. Also cutting the barrel back a couple inches, to remove the front sight screw holes, then add a NECG front sight with a green fiber optic. I measured a piece of new brass and the head and size of the brass is the same, except the 50-110 is .251 longer. Both chamber in my buddy’s 86.
The new starline 50-110 works in older model 50-110’s as well, just a little smaller head to be more of a universal fit.
I prefer the pistol grip, and also want a good recoil pad installed. Looking forward to trying some heavy powder coated, gas checked bullets in it. Good for 50AK with long seated bullets as well.

RIDERED350r · Post by **RIDERED350r** » Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:31 am

This thread really strikes a cord with me. I have a New Haven stamped Miroku Winchester 1886 Takedown that was originally a 45-70. I personally dropped it off at Turnbull (they are only about 2hrs from where I live) and had them give it the full treatment along with reaming the chamber to 45-90WCF. I couldn't be happier with the result. With a 300gr JHP I'm getting Ruger #1 45-70 velocity at lower pressure. And it shoots lights out to boot.

Here is a back burner item on my wish list. I asked Doug Turnbull if it was possible to have a second takedown complete front half built for my rifle in 50-110WCF. I wasn't sure if an 86 set up internally for the 50s could also still run the 45s. He said it could be done without a problem. The idea of changing from 45-90 to 50-110 in seconds really gets me starry eyed! The only reason I didn't do it was my savings wasn't at the level needed for the cost of the second front half build along with everything else. I was quoted $5500 just for the front Takedown half (complete barrel, mag tube and forend). I'm not complaining or crying foul on that price, their work is second to none and well worth it. I just had to back burner the idea for a time and keep saving for it.

Secondly, at one time I hated the curved pistol grip, just for looks. Well, my 1886 was my first rifle with the curved pistol grip and not only have I come to prefer the looks of it over the straight grip, but it is much more comfortable to shoot. With straight grip lever rifles, I tend to leave my pinky finger out of the loop due to the way my shooting hand tends to grip the stock and put my index finger on the trigger. With the curved pistol grip, my natural grip places all three fingers comfortably inside the lever loop. It just seems to be a much more natural grip for me. I still like straight grips, but if there is a choice, I go for curved pistol grips now.

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Bearskinner · Post by **Bearskinner** » Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:53 am

You have a beautiful lever gun there, and anything Turnbull is
Pretty much perfection. Although the take downs are very cool, you could get a 71 pistol grip or 86, if you want a straight stock, and do the conversion for about half that price. That being said, I could picture a 2 barrel cased set, and what a gorgeous set it would be.

RIDERED350r · Post by **RIDERED350r** » Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:00 am

Bearskinner wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 7:53 am You have a beautiful lever gun there, and anything Turnbull is
Pretty much perfection. Although the take downs are very cool, you could get a 71 pistol grip or 86, if you want a straight stock, and do the conversion for about half that price. That being said, I could picture a 2 barrel cased set, and what a gorgeous set it would be.

I got the idea for the two barrel set from a GB listing I stumbled across awhile back. It was a vintage 1886 Takedown restored by Turnbull. The original front barrel set was 45-70 and Turnbull built a 50-110 second front barrel set. It was listed for $12g. That's what prompted me to confirm with them that an action worked to cycle and feed the 50s would also still cycle and feed the 45s. It was just the added cost of the second barrel set that was the barrier. Just didn't have it in my budget. Having one rifle that shoots the already formidable 45-90 as well as the 50-110 is the stuff dreams are made of