45-70 Hunting Ammo

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jkbrea
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45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by jkbrea »

I always alternate my elk hunting rifles between a Tikka 30-06 and Marlin 45-70. I like both but in Grizzley country I like the 45-70. I don't reload. I've used 325 gr Leverevolution ammo successfully on 3 elk. With the ammo shortage, dealers were asking up to $120 a box!
I searched and found Steinel Ammunition. They had 400 grain jacketed flat points for $28 a box. I ordered 10 boxes in Feb. They said it would be June before I get it but no price increases. Well...they miscalculated. I got an email apologizing and that it may be a few more months because of shortages. They offered to send me 300 grain jacketed hollowpoints instead.
I am no bullet expert by any means but I wanted the flat nose bullets for the penetration.
Recently I picked up 4 boxes of Leverevolution for $38 a box. And I have 10 rounds of bada$$ Buffalo Bore, so Im ok for this coming season.
I told Steinel I would wait for the 400 grain ammo. Am I overthinking this or would the 300 gr hollowpoints work??
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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Last edited by Ray on Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by wvfarrier »

A 300 grain JHP, depending on the load info, will kill anything in North America. I killed my red stag using a handloaded 300 grain JSP traveling at 2200 fps. I shot him at 43 yards and the impact was audible, as was the "ooomph" he made when it hit. The round completely transected him from the left rear rib out the right shoulder. He dropped where he stood, then got up and staggered away. You could stick your hand in the exit wound. The recovery was less than 25 yards.
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Grizz
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Grizz »

i personally do not use hollow point ammo on anything i want to eat.

but i know people who have harvested deer with 22lr. and a man who killed 50 coastal brown bears with a 30-06.

rules about bullet choice are hard to extrapolate. my 45/70 load is a 525Gr hard cast BTB at 14xx fps. it's what i worked up to, over the years, starting with a 30-30 and 25-20, and adjusting the ammo until i liked what i saw....
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Lastmohecken »

I don't know about the big bears, but I have shot several head of deer, also some big hogs and found the 300 gr factory hollowpoint to be very decisive at close range, but I wouldn't want to shoot one a long ways off, as that bullet in my opinion starts to run out of steam, at the longer ranges, but up close, it has never disappointed me, but then again, I might still want a heavier longer bullet on one of the big bears.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I once had a hand-loaded 300-grain Remington hollowpoint out of my Marlin .45-70 Classic blow up on the shoulder/spine of a small mule deer at about 50 yards. I was quite surprised and disappointed.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by crs »

Jkbrea,
Glad that you found ammo for the coming season.
I am also waiting for my order of 400 grain .45-70 ammo from Steinel.
My personal preference of factory 300 grain 45-70 ammo is Winchester Gold Nosler Protected Point at 1800+ fps; accurate and deadly on deer, hogs, leopard, etc. I do not waste the Winchester ammo on hogs as nearly any 300 grain ammo will do for them.

I do handload and am now wrapping up loads for my 45-70 DR. The lighter weights such as 300-325 grains simply will not behave, but the 350 NF and all 400+ grainers group well enough for any big game hunting. The magic 400 grain velocity for my DR seems to be around 1600 fps and that should do for close in big game.

I have some 450 grain NF FPS, but the are overkill for all but Africa.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by fordwannabe »

I have had a couple experiences with a 45-70 on black bear. My normal walking around deer load for a Marlin is either a Hornady 300 gr JHP, or a subsonic 500 grain cast, when the can is being used. In the first case I was shooting at a largish (for Maine) black bear at 25 yards. I was using (for the last time) a Remington 405 grain fp. I shot, the bear flopped over right there, feet were moving a little and I thought I was GTG. WRONG! Bear got up and tore off never to be seen again as it started raining and wiped out the blood trail. I SHOULD HAVE FIRED A SECOND INSURANCE SHOT WHILE HE WAS DOWN> MY FAULT! When all the crying was over the next day we recovered that bullet and it had penetrated the bear a smallish tree Maybe 5-6 inches and was found lodged in a second tree. That bullet looked like I could reload it and use it again. If I were going for cape buff or rhinos maybe, deer or bear, no way. A couple years later I was in the same area and a 300 pound bear was at the bait barrel. I was using the Hornady 300 JHP load, one shot one dead bear (he got an insurance shot because on my previous issue but didn't need it). Now these are black bear but if I had to choose I would use the JHP, it left a quarter sized hole in the plastic barrel where it exited the bear, entered the barrel, then exited the barrel. AND they are quite accurate in my gun. My experiences with it. Hogs do not like the 300 JHP's either. As said earlier this is for close in work, at a longer range, I think I might choose another rifle.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by jkbrea »

They told me they have 325gr Solid Brass FP rounds. I don't know much about brass rounds for elk but I assume they penetrate well. I think I'll use the leverevolution rounds and wait for the 400 grain ones.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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Only a little experience here. I have used the LeverEvolution rounds a couple of times. They worked fine for me at 100 yards and less. I took my Guide Gun to Africa using some +P 405 grain loads from Grizzly Cartridge. A wildebeest was laying down facing away from me. I put 2 in beside the tail and bloke the pelvis on the right side, one rib, and recovered them under the hide in front of the right front leg. They mushroomed nicely. The Wildebeest actually got up and ran away. It took 2 rounds from a .308 and 2 more rounds of .45-70 to die. I am glad it was trying to get away. The right rear leg was useless as it tried to get away.
I used some 350 grain cast round flat points on an Oryx once and was not happy with the performance.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I'm a simple man. The Remington factory 405 is enough for anything I will ever shoot.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by crs »

Piller,
Even shot through the heart with a .338 Win Mag, a wildebeest can run 100 yards. They do eventually run out of gas.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by crs »

Scott said, The Remington factory 405 is enough for anything I will ever shoot.

Those come in two velocities and when the 1330 fps MV version shot very well in my 45-70 DR I thought maybe the faster 1600 fps load would also and began trying some different loads. Last weekend, I had them and NF 350 grainers both at 1600 fps MV shooting well, so this weekend, it will be back to the range to adjust the scope to put the group right where I want it.
Then maybe shoot a hog or two just to see how well it all works in the field.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

crs wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:04 pm Scott said, The Remington factory 405 is enough for anything I will ever shoot.

Those come in two velocities and when the 1330 fps MV version shot very well in my 45-70 DR I thought maybe the faster 1600 fps load would also and began trying some different loads. Last weekend, I had them and NF 350 grainers both at 1600 fps MV shooting well, so this weekend, it will be back to the range to adjust the scope to put the group right where I want it.
Then maybe shoot a hog or two just to see how well it all works in the field.
I shoot the 1330 fps load and I have never had one stop in a deer or a hog. I used to load this cartridge as hot as the Marlin would take. But I am convinced that the factory 405 is a well balanced load that does not overload the bullet. It penetrates in a good straight line and seems to punch a good hole all the way through.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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crs wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 3:57 pm Piller,
Even shot through the heart with a .338 Win Mag, a wildebeest can run 100 yards. They do eventually run out of gas.
They are tough. Over 4 feet of penetration, a broken pelvis, a rib penetrated by a bullet, and a lung punctured with the first two shots and it got up. I am impressed with how tough and tenacious they can be.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by piller »

Those two bullets are still in my possession. They performed perfectly. I have no doubt that a big hog would not be much threat after similar damage.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Lastmohecken »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:45 am I once had a hand-loaded 300-grain Remington hollowpoint out of my Marlin .45-70 Classic blow up on the shoulder/spine of a small mule deer at about 50 yards. I was quite surprised and disappointed.
Was it a lot hotter load then factory? I am thinking that the 300 grain hollowpoint maybe be constructed to work best at factory velocities, and might not hold together at close range, when loaded heavy. I had the same thing happen many years ago with the 240 gr factory 444 load. It did massive damage but blew up on a large Whitetail when I hit it, high shoulder/top of back. Those 240 gr factory loads were too lightly constructed for the 444 at close range. It worked though, the deer never went anywhere.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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Scott replied "I shoot the 1330 fps load and I have never had one stop in a deer or a hog. I used to load this cartridge as hot as the Marlin would take. But I am convinced that the factory 405 is a well balanced load that does not overload the bullet. It penetrates in a good straight line and seems to punch a good hole all the way through."

Thank you for the report on the Remington 1330 fps 405 grain performance on game. I have been looking for such confirmation on that load. If my 1600 fps loads do not work out, I can always back off to the lower velocity.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Grizz »

@ Lastmohecken
I had the same thing happen many years ago with the 240 gr factory 444 load
was that a hollow point? early in the 444 story they were loaded with 240g JSP 44 mag bullets. I've read that was corrected somewhere along the line and replaced with a heavier duty bullet for the 444.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Lastmohecken »

Grizz wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:42 am @ Lastmohecken
I had the same thing happen many years ago with the 240 gr factory 444 load
was that a hollow point? early in the 444 story they were loaded with 240g JSP 44 mag bullets. I've read that was corrected somewhere along the line and replaced with a heavier duty bullet for the 444.
Not a hollowpoint, it was the standard Remington 444 Marlin load of the day, which was a 240 gr JSP. It was a very heavily bodied buck for an Arkansas Whitetail. On reflection, I doubt if it was over 25 yards, running flat out, broadside. I was shooting a Marlin 444 sporter with a 22 inch barrel, if I remember correctly. I missed the first couple of shots, and surmised I was shooting high, and pulled down a little and hit him high shoulder/top of back. The core separated from the jacket and I found both, where they had slid down a rib on the far side. I was running an old Redfield receiver sight with the insert removed, (ghost ring) and I don't know why I do it, but when shooting fast, I have a tendency to let the front blade run high in the peep hole, causing me to shoot high, sometimes. I don't naturally center it, like most people and experts claim to do. I am better with open semi-buckhorns on those kinds of shots. But that's just me.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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Lastmohecken wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:57 pm
Grizz wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:42 am @ Lastmohecken
I had the same thing happen many years ago with the 240 gr factory 444 load
was that a hollow point? early in the 444 story they were loaded with 240g JSP 44 mag bullets. I've read that was corrected somewhere along the line and replaced with a heavier duty bullet for the 444.
Not a hollowpoint, it was the standard Remington 444 Marlin load of the day, which was a 240 gr JSP. It was a very heavily bodied buck for an Arkansas Whitetail. On reflection, I doubt if it was over 25 yards, running flat out, broadside. I was shooting a Marlin 444 sporter with a 22 inch barrel, if I remember correctly. I missed the first couple of shots, and surmised I was shooting high, and pulled down a little and hit him high shoulder/top of back. The core separated from the jacket and I found both, where they had slid down a rib on the far side. I was running an old Redfield receiver sight with the insert removed, (ghost ring) and I don't know why I do it, but when shooting fast, I have a tendency to let the front blade run high in the peep hole, causing me to shoot high, sometimes. I don't naturally center it, like most people and experts claim to do. I am better with open semi-buckhorns on those kinds of shots. But that's just me.
I gave my son a Marlin 444. we thought of it as a 44mag magnum. we didn't do a lot of hunting with it, but don't remember why. his marlin 44mag was much handier and we used white box 240Gr JSP in it and it was a hammer on deer and I never saw a bullet failure. I don't think we ever recovered a bullet.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by piller »

Some folks argue about the .444 vs the .45-70. Maybe we should all get one of each and try them out for ourselves.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Lastmohecken, I had that Remington 300-grain JHP loaded to about 2,000, which proved to be beyond its design capabilities.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by fordwannabe »

I have both, so can I join your club?
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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About 20~ years ago I shot a nice blacktail deer at about 40-50 yards, at a downhill angle, with a factory Federal 300gr 45-70.
It hit between the shoulders, struck the spine, and traveled the entire length of the animal coming to rest in the pelvis. That's a lot of penetration. It pulverized the backstraps, and wrecked a lot of the spine on its southward journey.
The fps was in the neighborhood of 1900, IIRC, and the drop at 200 yards was only about 11 inches.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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piller wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:33 pm Some folks argue about the .444 vs the .45-70. Maybe we should all get one of each and try them out for ourselves.
i did that, but don't argue about it. for my area and needs, the 45/70 beat 444, for me, as soon as i started shooting heavy bullets. i don't know the heaviest bullet you could shoot in a 444, and i can't remember the twist rate, but i think it's 1:38 [!!!!]. imo, it should have the same twist rate as a ruger redhawk 44. also, that particular marlin felt like the butt stock was a 1x4. i'm not too recoil sensitive, but that marlin was a bruiser. got a good laugh out or that, and left it home.

the thing is, i've almost always loaded down, lowered pressures, and looked for powder-bullet combinations that were comfortable to shoot and also amped up on momentum. Marshall was perplexed when i asked him for lower pressure loads. he'd give me a list and i'd get loads with slower velocities than anything in the books and magazines, but a TKO of 50 or something ridiculous like that.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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Blaine wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:15 pm About 20~ years ago I shot a nice blacktail deer at about 40-50 yards, at a downhill angle, with a factory Federal 300gr 45-70.
It hit between the shoulders, struck the spine, and traveled the entire length of the animal coming to rest in the pelvis. That's a lot of penetration. It pulverized the backstraps, and wrecked a lot of the spine on its southward journey.
The fps was in the neighborhood of 1900, IIRC, and the drop at 200 yards was only about 11 inches.
that one held up well. i had a 44mag 325gr do that, but less penetration. it rubbed off some lead and took out five or 4 vertebrae, can't remember. if i run across it i'll show you, it's interesting.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

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I like hearing from people who have used both. It does seem that a 1:38 twist is a bit slow.
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Re: 45-70 Hunting Ammo

Post by Lastmohecken »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:49 am Lastmohecken, I had that Remington 300-grain JHP loaded to about 2,000, which proved to be beyond its design capabilities.
That makes perfect sense to me.
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