How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I carry this gun a lot in the summer because .22 Magnum CCI shot cartridges are pretty effective on snakes. But it also shoots pretty well.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AmBraCol »

Interesting looking piece there, Scott. I've never messed with the WRM in a short barrel, but have done a bit of shooting out of my OM Single Six. Now I'm curious as to how it compares ballisticaly to something like a CCI Minimag out of that barrel. On the other hand, if it shoots that accurately, who cares? :lol: I keep looking for a good packing 22 pocket pistol for use up north, but they don't show up when I'm looking. That holster looks quite functional as well.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

It is loaded with Gold Dots and they seem to work well on small animals. If you stuck it into some dude's ear, it would probably either cure any hearing defects or resolve all of his earthy issues. That group was shot from about 10 yards I believe with CCI Maxi Mags.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by M. M. Wright »

For many years I carried a Colt Cobra. Shot it very little but did shoot it's near twin Detective Special a lot, even qualifying with it. About a year ago I bought a Kimber 4 inch 1911 in 45 ACP of course as I, like lastmohechan used to shoot IPSC so when it matters a lot I opt for what I am comfortable with. 1911 I still carry a Star PD quite a lot but that's just a 1911 with a 3 1/2 inch barrel. The one I currently have won't feed the H&G 68 so I run hardball in it and don't think it's a handicap.

And I'll admit it, sometimes I stick a Colt SAA in my belt. Current user is a 4 3/4 inch 45 that is nickel with one piece ivory on it from 1927. It's actually loaded with 200 grain bullets over all the ffg that will go in the case. Should provide plenty of shock and awe.

Star PD
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Colt Cobra de-horned and Tyler T
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by 2ndovc »

That's what I liked about the 642 that I gave to Kid #2.

For now I've gone back to my G26. It's the first carry pistol I bought when Ohio finally made CC legal. I've been looking at different holsters, but haven't ordered anything yet. I can get away with pocket carrying it during warmer weather and a pair of shorts from the fat clothes pile. :D Not so much with jeans on.
I'll pick up another J frame before too long.

jb 8)
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Lastmohecken »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:11 pm I carry this gun a lot in the summer because .22 Magnum CCI shot cartridges are pretty effective on snakes. But it also shoots pretty well.
I have one of those guns, but I have never tried to shoot a snake with birdshot, using it.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by JimT »

M. M. Wright wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:27 pm 1911 I still carry a Star PD quite a lot but that's just a 1911 with a 3 1/2 inch barrel. The one I currently have won't feed the H&G 68 so I run hardball in it and don't think it's a handicap.

Star PD
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I saw that Star when I was at your place. Did not have mine with me but here is a picture of it.
StarPD4.JPG
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AmBraCol »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:37 pm It is loaded with Gold Dots and they seem to work well on small animals. If you stuck it into some dude's ear, it would probably either cure any hearing defects or resolve all of his earthy issues. That group was shot from about 10 yards I believe with CCI Maxi Mags.
That's a load I've never seen yet. Shucks saw almost NO WRM this summer while up north. I find it intriguing, the Gold Dot name means a lot in some circles although this is the first I've heard of it in the long 22 round. I'm trying to remember what I've got in the stash, a lot more than I remembered but mostly odds and ends picked up over the years, mostly for use in my "Paco Pifle" and the OMSS. The pifle needs a better scope on it, never have wrung it out due to limited optics (carrying a 1X20 right now). The OMSS has given good performance with Winchester ammo which is what I've shot most out of it. But as mentioned above, now I'm intrigued by what performance one would get out of a shorter barrel. I've noticed that there are more "non-traditional" loads in some calibers due to their use in self defense oriented firearms. 410 is another one that comes to mind, I was impressed a couple years ago at how many loads weren't geared toward the traditional singleshot shotgun but actually built more for use in the Taurus Judge series. There's loads for snubbies and other carry guns in various calibers now, we've come a long way from RNL and FMJ only.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by jeepnik »

Decades ago when I was looking for a carry piece, while in Spain, I looked at the Stars. But they were only available in 9mm. I had some experience with the 9mm and wasn't impressed. So I went with a Llama Comanche in .357 mag.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

AmBraCol wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:04 pm
Scott Tschirhart wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:37 pm It is loaded with Gold Dots and they seem to work well on small animals. If you stuck it into some dude's ear, it would probably either cure any hearing defects or resolve all of his earthy issues. That group was shot from about 10 yards I believe with CCI Maxi Mags.
That's a load I've never seen yet. Shucks saw almost NO WRM this summer while up north. I find it intriguing, the Gold Dot name means a lot in some circles although this is the first I've heard of it in the long 22 round.
The .22 Magnum is considerably more than your garden variety .22 lr. I carried a High Standard Derringer in .22 WMR for years as a backup to my service gun and I bought a lot of dope with the High Standard as my only armament. I can tell you that it is REALLY LOUD. But I never actually shot anybody with it.

The Gold Dot load is specifically designed for self defense from a snub nosed revolver and it was not available back in my policing days. There are a number of YouTube videos that show folks shooting this into jello and it seems to expand and penetrate like it should.

When Paco was working dope, I think he shot an old boy with a .22 Magnum in a semi-auto pistol and it worked just fine.

Bill Jordan wrote about such a revolver in 1965:

"A recent letter from Doug Hellstrom, Smith and Wesson's dynamic young executive vice-president, says that they are working on the problems attendant to marrying the .22 RF Magnum to the Chief airweight--and there are lots of problems. Aluminum cylinder and barrel with steel inserts are indicated to keep down weight. The big problem, however, is devising a method to keep the hot gasses from eating through the aluminum frame above the junction of the cylinder and barrel. If this problem can be whipped is should result in the perfect hideout gun. It will not only outreach a switch blade but will pack plenty of close range authority into an easily carried and concealed package."

Of course they were unable to surmount these issues until later years and they did not need to use steel inserts in the cylinders (and we got an extra round in this model as it is a seven shooter). I do not feel like I am unarmed when carrying this little shooter. There's no excuse for not slipping it into a pocket.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AmBraCol »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:53 am
AmBraCol wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:04 pm
Scott Tschirhart wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 1:37 pm It is loaded with Gold Dots and they seem to work well on small animals. If you stuck it into some dude's ear, it would probably either cure any hearing defects or resolve all of his earthy issues. That group was shot from about 10 yards I believe with CCI Maxi Mags.
That's a load I've never seen yet. Shucks saw almost NO WRM this summer while up north. I find it intriguing, the Gold Dot name means a lot in some circles although this is the first I've heard of it in the long 22 round.
The .22 Magnum is considerably more than your garden variety .22 lr. I carried a High Standard Derringer in .22 WMR for years as a backup to my service gun and I bought a lot of dope with the High Standard as my only armament. I can tell you that it is REALLY LOUD. But I never actually shot anybody with it.

The Gold Dot load is specifically designed for self defense from a snub nosed revolver and it was not available back in my policing days. There are a number of YouTube videos that show folks shooting this into jello and it seems to expand and penetrate like it should.

When Paco was working dope, I think he shot an old boy with a .22 Magnum in a semi-auto pistol and it worked just fine.

Bill Jordan wrote about such a revolver in 1965:

"A recent letter from Doug Hellstrom, Smith and Wesson's dynamic young executive vice-president, says that they are working on the problems attendant to marrying the .22 RF Magnum to the Chief airweight--and there are lots of problems. Aluminum cylinder and barrel with steel inserts are indicated to keep down weight. The big problem, however, is devising a method to keep the hot gasses from eating through the aluminum frame above the junction of the cylinder and barrel. If this problem can be whipped is should result in the perfect hideout gun. It will not only outreach a switch blade but will pack plenty of close range authority into an easily carried and concealed package."

Of course they were unable to surmount these issues until later years and they did not need to use steel inserts in the cylinders (and we got an extra round in this model as it is a seven shooter). I do not feel like I am unarmed when carrying this little shooter. There's no excuse for not slipping it into a pocket.
I was just thinking about that story, but don't recall which handgun he was using. For some reason I was thinking it was a derringer of some sort.

Interesting info on the history of S$W and 22 WRM in a lightweight resolver. Didn't know they were thinking about that back then. Aluminum and alloys have come a long weigh in the meantime, it's amazing what they can do with them. I find the options available for discreet carry today to be intriguing. Wish we had more options here.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AmBraCol »

OK, Scott. You made me look. AMT Auto is what Paco used to kneecap the perp. He also wrote about three cases of the 22 WRM being used out of a High Standard derringer by agents which all resulted in the target going down immediately. Somehow I got the incidents mixed up. I'd forgotten how much he wrote about the round in "Rifles and Handguns An American Freedom" and elsewhere.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by JimT »

Recently I had opportunity to spend some time getting acquainted with a Rock Island "1911" .22 Magnum. It belongs to a close friend and I was able to shoot it for awhile. I have to say I like this gun. It weighs almost as much as a standard 1911 ... has all the same controls and feel. The big difference is the barrel and slide are set up more like the Beretta 92. Not a big deal and shooting it you did not notice. Even with muffs on the report is loud! And it is accurate. Right out of the box we never had any feed problems or stoppages of any kind. It's not a small gun by any means and measures very close to overall length, height and width with the .45 1911. With the weight recoil is nothing, I like the gun and would be tempted to buy one if I didn't like revolvers more. :D

The one I shot was like this photo .. finish was "burnt bronze" .. and in person it was pretty nice.
Rock Island 22.jpg
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AmBraCol »

Now THERE'S a pistol I could like! No feeling of despair if not all the brass is readily available to pick up. I HATE losing my 45 ACP brass which leads me to not shoot the SR1911 much. 9mm doesn't bother me so much for some weird reason. 22 WRM would be a completely "no worries" deal. :lol:
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by 2ndovc »

Thanks for putting that up. I've been looking at the RIA .22 Magnums for a couple of months. I haven't see n the bronze finish. Now I know I want one.

:D

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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Grizz »

before i would carry a 22mag i would need a few thousand rounds of ammo...

i shot my Mom's 22mag derringer a long time ago. i remember that i had to try to hang onto it. LOL
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Rusty »

I tried to carry a Glock 26 but never could warm up to it. A S&W M640 feels really nice in my pocket holster though.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

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Rusty wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 1:52 am I tried to carry a Glock 26 but never could warm up to it. A S&W M640 feels really nice in my pocket holster though.
I know. the Glock 26 is not an easy pistol to love. The funny thing is, I keep coming back to it. Mine has been 100% reliable and surprisingly accurate. I was heavy into IDPA in the mid 2000s, every few matches we would have a Back up Gun shoot and I would do quite well in those, even wining a few. I'll pick up another J frame before too long.

jb 8)
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Thinking of carrying a Bearcat that was made in '64 this winter...
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

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AJMD429 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:07 pm At one point I carried one of these... :shock:

9B56DE74-8029-452D-AFCF-D615CBD700E4.jpeg

Hey...It was the only centerfire handgun I had and I was working nights in pharmacies in bad neighborhoods....!

Later on I carried a Charter Arms 44 bulldog and for a while a Ruger Speed Six 357 and on occasion tucked a North American Arms Mini Revolver in 22WMR in a pair of swim shorts.

Having had revolvers occasionally lock up too, I’m not sure I consider them 100% more reliable than a good semi-automatic pistol. Truthfully, my double stack Para Ordinance 14 shot 1911 has been one of the most reliable handguns, with well over 1000 rounds of Golden Saber JHP’s without a stoppage.

I never felt under-gunned with the Super Blackhawk though, even though I ‘only’ loaded it with the first three rounds being W-W Silvertip 44 Specials, then 3 W-W 240 gr JHP Magnums.
Your SBH seems to be missing a frame screw Doc! :wink:
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by 91B40 »

I ALWAYS carry a Smith Model 642 with +P 158 gr. LHP and five reloads. I either pocket carry or use a strong side IWB holster. Yes, you should check a concealed carry piece often to get rid of the lint.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

91B40 wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:04 pm I ALWAYS carry a Smith Model 642 with +P 158 gr. LHP and five reloads. I either pocket carry or use a strong side IWB holster. Yes, you should check a concealed carry piece often to get rid of the lint.
A sensible approach. And if you always carry it, it will be there when you need it. I was using a chain saw on the ranch yesterday with my smith in my pocket. I pulled it out to take some photos for Paul and I was surprised at how much sweat was beaded up on the frame! Pocket lint and moisture make me think that we ought to shoot these things regularly and keep them clean.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by BigLost »

4" Smith .38/44 Heavy Duty(2nd mdl.) & Elmer Keith's load ; nickle s just about worn off , but just keeps puttin' em where needed :D !
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

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Long-stroke DA is my least-perishable handgun triggering skill, which mattered all the more when trigger time became rare, as we needed to stay relatively isolated from folks, due to my wife’s increased vulnerability to COVID-19. Plus, my formerly-stronger right hand was starting to get really gimpy, before the panic-demic started. I no longer fully trust my right hand to provide a firm, stable platform for auto-loading cycling. So, revolving pistols have become my default normal, and, unless I transition, to establish my left hip as my primary carry position, I am likely to “EDC” revolvers, for the foreseeable future.

Fortunately, I was created as left-handed, and right-armed, writing lefty, and throwing righty, so, shooting lefty is not a problem, but having reached toward my right hip, during countless encounters, in 33+ years of big-city policing, have hard-wired my brain and nervous system. The scientific word for this hard-wiring is “myelination.”

The revolving pistols I am likely to carry include the Ruger SP101, GP100, and Speed Six, and S&W Model 64 snub-guns. I dabble with others, including single-action sixguns,
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Rexter,

Thank you for your service. Care to mention what department? I was in Houston through most of the 1980s.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Paul105 »

Carried a S&W M329 all day every day for the better part of a decade. Carried it in one of Rob's original hand sewn Simply Rugged Pancakes. Had two guns so that when one needed repairs I always had one in working order. Shot them quite a bit and they required frequent repairs.
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Image
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Image
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Lots of memories with those guns - here's one:
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I belong to an outdoor archery range. It is a walking course that has 28 targets on both the front and back side. It meanders thru aspens and conifers, along the side of and over hillsides, thru small sagebrush parks and a couple of minor drainages. It takes a little over an hour to walk one side. Great place to walk the dogs and it’s usually accessible from late March thru mid Oct. Rabbits, squirrels, gophers and an occasional coyote make up the smaller animals. Deer, elk and moose not uncommon. I’ve never seen one, but wolves, bears, and mountain lions have been seen in the general area.
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Willow, my yellow lab, and I were finishing up our morning archery shoot. I was about to shoot the last target when Willow exploded out of the timber on my left, about 30 yds in front of me. Right on her heals was a big black 4 legged critter. My mind screamed “BEAR”. I dropped the bow and went for my other constant companion, a S&W 329 .44 Mag. It only took an instant for me to realize it was a big Rottweiler that belonged to another archer – the two dogs were just playing. Had the ticker pumping pretty good there for a moment.
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As I've gotten older, and not in the back country as often, I pocket carry either a S&W 360 PD or a Kahr CW40. For those occasional back country outings, I'll throw a 2.75" S&W M69 (L Frame .44 Mag) in the hip pocket of my Carharts.
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Sorry got a bit long winded.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Paul,

What kind of repairs were those guns needing? Just curious.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Paul105 »

Scott,
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Frame stretching.
Ignition problems probably due to above.
Timing/carry up.
Blast shield erosion eating thru top strap.
Crane
Lock failure

Sent the guns to S&W maybe six or seven times. S&W doesn't provide real detailed explanation of repairs done. All repairs including round trip shipping done on their dime.

Some of the explanations:

Replaced frame w/same serial number.
Replaced cylinder.
Replaced crane.
Replaced firing pin.
Replaced blast shield.
Replaced extractor.


Didn't keep real good notes, so probably missed some.

Paul
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Thanks for sharing. I have often thought that the 329 would be a handy outdoor gun but I stuck with my 629 Mountain Gun because it felt more solid to me and did not beat me up quite so much.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

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Scott Tschirhart wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:03 pm Rexter,

Thank you for your service. Care to mention what department? I was in Houston through most of the 1980s.
Same PD as you. Central Patrol. I was a skinny, quiet kid, back then, so you may not remember me, but we passed each other in the hallway a few times, and I would see you around the gym area. I cannot say that we ever had a long conversation. My user name, Rexster, is what several co-workers called me. Joe De Eugenio or Scott Dombrowski probably first used “Rexster.” They, and Dan Eller, used it the most, that I can recall. (I think you may remember them.)

I was sworn in March 1984. If you remember when that “Westheimer Squad” was formed, well, I was one of the guys, who, by seniority, were selected, in 1985. I stayed on that squad until late 1989, or early 1990, when it was reduced by half, with the best ticket-writers being selected to remain. I was told that I had the most felony arrests, but that was not what they wanted, at the time, as it was total “ducks” that mattered. (Of course, the best way to catch felons is to stop plenty of traffic, and then pay attention.) It was just as well, as I became an FTI in 1990.

To keep this revolver-oriented, I toted an S&W Model 629, for my first year, in a flap holster I bought at Stelzig’s. George Malone made a custom flap rig for my HK P7, which I started using at end of my first year of sworn service. A few months later, in late 1985, when the open-top, break-front holster became standard, for revolvers, I went back to using a duty revolver, but this time it was an ex-SAPD Model 58, .41 Magnum, which remained my primary duty handgun, until it got a bit too loose, in 1990. I then toted autos on duty, for three years, and returned to duty revolvers, 1993-1997; first a GP100, then K-Frames.

I used duty autos, from 1997, until I retired, in 2018, but the occasional felon still got to look into the barrel of a GP100, Speed Six, or S&W Model 19, well into the 21st Century, because revolvers could still be my “back-up” guns. :wink:

Thank you for your service. :)
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AJMD429 »

Ysabel Kid wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:09 pm
AJMD429 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:07 pm At one point I carried one of these... :shock:

9B56DE74-8029-452D-AFCF-D615CBD700E4.jpeg

Hey...It was the only centerfire handgun I had and I was working nights in pharmacies in bad neighborhoods....!

Later on I carried a Charter Arms 44 bulldog and for a while a Ruger Speed Six 357 and on occasion tucked a North American Arms Mini Revolver in 22WMR in a pair of swim shorts.

Having had revolvers occasionally lock up too, I’m not sure I consider them 100% more reliable than a good semi-automatic pistol. Truthfully, my double stack Para Ordinance 14 shot 1911 has been one of the most reliable handguns, with well over 1000 rounds of Golden Saber JHP’s without a stoppage.

I never felt under-gunned with the Super Blackhawk though, even though I ‘only’ loaded it with the first three rounds being W-W Silvertip 44 Specials, then 3 W-W 240 gr JHP Magnums.
Your SBH seems to be missing a frame screw Doc! :wink:
That was a stock Internet photograph, but I’m not sure where you see the missing screws?
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AmBraCol »

Paul105 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:55 pm
Image

Paul

Other than the resolver sticking out, that's all but identical to my own Simply Rugged rig. I've several more now, but that one was my first and it's still serving well today.
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by jeepnik »

I was feeling nostalgic yesterday so I carried this.
Image
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Ysabel Kid »

AJMD429 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:03 am
Ysabel Kid wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:09 pm
AJMD429 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:07 pm At one point I carried one of these... :shock:

9B56DE74-8029-452D-AFCF-D615CBD700E4.jpeg

Hey...It was the only centerfire handgun I had and I was working nights in pharmacies in bad neighborhoods....!

Later on I carried a Charter Arms 44 bulldog and for a while a Ruger Speed Six 357 and on occasion tucked a North American Arms Mini Revolver in 22WMR in a pair of swim shorts.

Having had revolvers occasionally lock up too, I’m not sure I consider them 100% more reliable than a good semi-automatic pistol. Truthfully, my double stack Para Ordinance 14 shot 1911 has been one of the most reliable handguns, with well over 1000 rounds of Golden Saber JHP’s without a stoppage.

I never felt under-gunned with the Super Blackhawk though, even though I ‘only’ loaded it with the first three rounds being W-W Silvertip 44 Specials, then 3 W-W 240 gr JHP Magnums.
Your SBH seems to be missing a frame screw Doc! :wink:
That was a stock Internet photograph, but I’m not sure where you see the missing screws?
It is a picture of a new model (post 1973 gun). Only two screws on the frame versus three (the pre 1793 models, now often referred to as "old models"). :D
Image
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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by AJMD429 »

Oh duhh; missed that!
Mine is actually a 1975 “200th Year” engraved one I ‘ruined’ by having a gold-bead sight and ramp brazed on - I never liked Patridge sights so had it modified since I was a teenage male and knew everything. No real regrets though, since I rightly figured odds of me ever selling the gun were slim. Still have it, still shoot it, still prefer the sights.
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"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


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Re: How many of you guys carry revolvers for EDC?

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Rexster wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:16 pm Same PD as you. Central Patrol. I was a skinny, quiet kid, back then, so you may not remember me, but we passed each other in the hallway a few times, and I would see you around the gym area. I cannot say that we ever had a long conversation. My user name, Rexster, is what several co-workers called me. Joe De Eugenio or Scott Dombrowski probably first used “Rexster.” They, and Dan Eller, used it the most, that I can recall. (I think you may remember them.)
I remember Scott Dombrowski well. I was assigned to Central Patrol until they created that meat grinder known as the D.A.R.T. program and I was transferred to South Central when we did the split.

I started with a Smith 586 which had just come out with a 2.5 inch 66 that they let us buy in the academy.

What I should have done was bought a 4 inch Smith 66 and a 60 and just carried those for the rest of my time. But as soon as my first year was over, I went to a 1911 and carried various 1911s from that point until I was fired.

I frankly did not mind the flap holsters we wore. I never thought it slowed anything down enough to make a difference. But you tell someone that we wore flap holsters back then, they think you are a dinosaur.
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