Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

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gamekeeper
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Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

Post by gamekeeper »

Just bought a .45 caliber smooth bore carbine, should get it by Monday, I still have my possible's bag and enough lead, powder and caps to get by for a while.
Smooth bore guns are much easier to get here than rifled muzzle loaders, I have had a few .45s over the years and they can be quite accurate with patched RB.
I'll post pictures when I get my grubby hands on it, until then this is the best I can do.
gun22192_02_1.jpg
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by Ray »

Most interesting...... Please keep us up to date with range results etc.

From what I remember of nath's posts, double .440" and oiled leather wads were used and were accurate enough for bunnies.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

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Ray wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:23 pm
Most interesting...... Please keep us up to date with range results etc.

From what I remember of nath's posts, double .440" and oiled leather wads were used and were accurate enough for bunnies.
Yes Nath has a similar gun to the one I bought and the ones I had a few years ago were very capable game getters, ricochets however with RB are are something to watch out for. I have tried to get similar .410 performance with birdshot but never really got there, something I want to continue experimenting with.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

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Is Mingo hunting with you? Or Chingachkook?
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by gamekeeper »

piller wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 12:56 am
Is Mingo hunting with you? Or Chingachkook?
Neither, I'd prefer Sacagawea a lot more useful in more ways than one... :D
Sacagawea-275-1.jpg
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by Ray »

This is the lady who portrayed sacagawea in them museum peliculas.....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizuo_Peck

B.T.W......re. the o.p......7/16" steel balls are cheap when bought by the 500 or 1,000 and are just the right diameter for a .45 smoothbore when patched with wax paper or bare once some fouling has accumulated.

We can get them from china via ebay for less than four pennies each. At 68.4 % the weight of lead, three of them are just a bit heavier than the typical r.c.b.s./t.c. maxiball. Four to five c.c. volume of powder or the same weight in grams or 60 to 70 grains.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by gamekeeper »

Mizuo Peck now that's what I would call a great hunting buddy.... 8) 8) 8)
Thanks for the information on the steel balls, never thought about using them... 8)
My muzzle loader should have been delivered at my local toyshop today but for some reason it's closed till Monday... :cry:
220px-Mizuo_Peck_2009_portrait.jpg
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by Ray »

The obvious caveat of using steel balls in a front-loading smoothbore is the potential of stuck balls from a miss fire or omitting propellant. Any hiccup or mistake and you have an expensive mantle art piece. The only hope is finding a zerk fitting that will screw in place of the cone and allow a grease gun to pump the balls out or perhaps removing the breechplug......

The vast majority of folk eschew even the idea of using steel balls, citing inevitable bore damage but we are talking smoothbores here and they don't actually rattle down the bore as suspected but a combination of the initial inertia and the cone of hot gasses surrounding the ball prevents, or at least minimizes metal to metal contact.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

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Thanks Ray, I can see why my ball puller would be redundant with steel balls, I've been lucky the odd times I have loaded a RB before the powder :oops: I have removed the nipple and dribbled in enough powder to push the ball out. I have used a ball puller quite a lot when I worked for Westley Richards, I discovered that a lot of antique muzzle loaders from India where still loaded :o I gave that up when I found some of the powder still had life in it, all be it not much and some of the projectiles were stones :shock: I didn't like the idea of ramming a steel ball puller in to stone with what could have been a live charge behind it.
As you say, a close fitting steel ball if loaded correctly would not damage a smooth bore, I may try it just out of interest.
BTW I have only loaded without powder I think about twice but the most embarrassing time was when teaching my girl friend to load her flint lock Kentucky... :oops: :oops:
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by piller »

I haven't shot a muzzleloader much. I have an inline one with about 60 bullets and sabots for it. Maybe a few more. A pound and more than another half of powder. I think I can use it for a deer or wild pig if needed. So far, no loading the bullet before the powder. Of course about 50 rounds total is not much time to get comfortable.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

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gamekeeper wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:08 pm
Just bought a .45 caliber smooth bore carbine, should get it by Monday, I still have my possible's bag and enough lead, powder and caps to get by for a while.
Smooth bore guns are much easier to get here than rifled muzzle loaders, I have had a few .45s over the years and they can be quite accurate with patched RB.
I'll post pictures when I get my grubby hands on it, until then this is the best I can do.
gun22192_02_1.jpg
Click to enlarge image.
Are your rules/regulations more harsh with rifled shooter?
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

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Blaine wrote:
Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:46 pm
gamekeeper wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:08 pm
Just bought a .45 caliber smooth bore carbine, should get it by Monday, I still have my possible's bag and enough lead, powder and caps to get by for a while.
Smooth bore guns are much easier to get here than rifled muzzle loaders, I have had a few .45s over the years and they can be quite accurate with patched RB.
I'll post pictures when I get my grubby hands on it, until then this is the best I can do.
gun22192_02_1.jpg
Click to enlarge image.
Are your rules/regulations more harsh with rifled shooter?
Yes you need police permission to buy any rifled arm.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by barbarossa »

Muzzle loading guns has always been my first passion when it comes to guns.Recently I have been trying to resist temptation to purchase this 10 bore rifle by kavanaugh sold locally as it is a pretty pricy piece but would be cool to hunt with.To buy it I would have to sell a few guns off to pay for it
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

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That Kavanaugh is a beauty. Must have belonged to someone with a fair bit of cash in it's day..... :mrgreen:
Mine is only a German/Italian replica of nothing in particular, I have had a few like it in the past and they do shoot well, I sold my English 12 gauge muzzleloader as it was only safe with very light loads, regretting it ever since.. :oops: there's just something different when in the field with a traditional muzzleloader it just feels right somehow similar to traditional archery or using a really old Leveraction.... :wink:
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by Ray »

Now if you're getting back into it in a big way then check this out.....

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categori ... /1/AAT-535
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by barbarossa »

I have something similar to that my 1851 Swiss Feld Stutzer made by Vollmer
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Saw a few nice ml's thiss weekend. One was a .40 cal the guys dad built in 1967. No smoothbores tho. Shooting steel bearings sound pretty interesting. So now I'll be searching the different sizes of them and seeing what their measurements are in thousandth's of inches. (thank you Ray) I've shot marbles and plastic balls with 5-10grs of 3F.
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

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Todd, would that mild load work to hit a target?
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by 3leggedturtle »

piller wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:57 am
Todd, would that mild load work to hit a target?
Put nice big gouges in Poplar trees. Never really did penetration or accuracy tests. Just goofing off when bored in rainy weather at cabin.

Never even thought to try them out on pop cans or bottles!
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

ITS 5:56pm DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR 223 IS?
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by piller »

If it hit the tree, then it hit your target of opportunity. Sounds like fun. Since my Muzzle Loader can have the breech plug removed, I can remove things from it pretty easy. It is rifled, so no real messing with patched marbles or patched ball bearings. A smooth bore muzzle loading pistol would be fun with patched ball bearings.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading.

Post by 3leggedturtle »

I had a T/C Hawken in .45 cal, I did patch the both plastic ball and marble.

G-K any progress on getting the smoothbore yet?
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

ITS 5:56pm DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR 223 IS?
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading OR NOT ?

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3leggedturtle wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:35 pm
I had a T/C Hawken in .45 cal, I did patch the both plastic ball and marble.

G-K any progress on getting the smoothbore yet?
Yes and no, the gun arrived at my LGS and the bore was red with rust, it looked like just light surface rust so I took it home and run a few patches through it, I fired a few caps and put a light load of BP and birdshot only to find it wouldn't go off. After unloading with my wad puller I tried again with triple 7 still no go, I then tried Pyrotex same result, I then broke down a BP 12 gauge shell and tried that still no ignition, I used CCI # 11 Remington #11 and Dixie Gun Works #11 caps and 4 different powders. The gun was cleaned with boiling water after the first attempt and later the barrel was put in a bucket of hot soapy water and pumped in and out. The water came out through the nipple hole like a fire hose but still no ignition, I even tried a new nipple. The rust in the bore stops me from seeing down to the breech to see if there's some sort of obstruction. Maybe the caps not being brand new and the powder also has been in the original plastic bottles for a while but caps and powder all seemed to be ok, I tried the powder with a match and it looked fine. Anyway I am now waiting to hear from the seller.... :(

Update, the seller is offering a full refund or exchange, he has a 12 gauge muzzleloader by Gallyon and sons at the same price, I might be tempted he also has some nice 20 gauge side by sides that look okay too.
The Gallyon was also known as the Magnum Cape Gun I think Dixie may have sold them, Gallyon is a very old British gun maker but the muzzleloader was made in Italy and just finished over here.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

Post by barbarossa »

I say go with the gallyon I have one and I think it will be a better choice than the first gun .I had to make up a new ramrod for mine as the previous owner misplaced the original.I use a 69cal mould for mine and plan on taking it out for deer this season
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Last edited by barbarossa on Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

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barbarossa wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:56 am
I say go with the gallyon I have one and I think it will be a better choice than the first gun you have.I believe Investarms still makes them for sale in Europe and there is a rifle barrel made up for them as well.For some reason they don t export them to North America anymore which is a shame.I had to make up a new ramrod for mine as the previous owner misplaced the original
You are correct, the .45 was only for a bit of fun, the Gallyon would make a serious game getter for sure, the seller made a mistake when advertising, the .45 and another.45 were listed under Over & Unders so I didn't see the Gallyon untill i searched his website for a likely swap. I will have to check it out well as all three muzzleloaders came from the same guy... :?
Thanks for the info on the Gallyon. 8)
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

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Yes you will be far happier with the gallyon a way better gun for shotgunning.Like I said pick up a 69cal mould and you ll be in business for anything
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

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barbarossa wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:10 am
Yes you will be far happier with the gallyon a way better gun for shotgunning.Like I said pick up a 69cal mould and you ll be in business for anything
Just like days gone bye when a single barrel shotgun had to do everything.
If I can't get the Gallyon I know of another muzzleloader (Ardessa) in 12 gauge but the Gallyon is my preferred choice. That is your load with the round ball ? It's probably a bit over overkill here, Roe deer are the biggest game where I am but you never know what's around the corner.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

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Roe deer are not very big, but they are quite interesting for someone like me who only sees them once.
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

Post by barbarossa »

gamekeeper wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:08 am
barbarossa wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:10 am
Yes you will be far happier with the gallyon a way better gun for shotgunning.Like I said pick up a 69cal mould and you ll be in business for anything
Just like days gone bye when a single barrel shotgun had to do everything.
If I can't get the Gallyon I know of another muzzleloader (Ardessa) in 12 gauge but the Gallyon is my preferred choice. That is your load with the round ball ? It's probably a bit over overkill here, Roe deer are the biggest game where I am but you never know what's around the corner.
I normally use 90 to 95 grains of BP with the 69cal round ball
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

Post by Ray »

Ah ! The euroarms magnum cape gun.....When I was just a wee lad in the 1970s it were advertised in both the glossy gun rags and in the dixie gun works catalog.....begged both pops and "bernard" my hunting uncle to buy one.....the fact that they scoffed at the very idea with much castigation warped poor susceptible me into the gun nut that I am.....
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Re: Getting back into M/Loading. OR NOT ?

Post by gamekeeper »

After a two and a half hour drive I finally got to exchange the .45 Muzzleloader for the Gallyon :D couldn't be more pleased with the swap. I will post pictures and info on a new thread...
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