Update - Dems want all HANDGUNS registered as NFA Weapons...

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AJMD429
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Update - Dems want all HANDGUNS registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by AJMD429 »

.

....well not really, but they will eventually - you DO know that, don't you...???

We'd better PUSH BACK HARD or we just lose more rights, and more gets 'registered'... :|

Remember - things we might not care that much about SET PRECEDENT, and then are used later and nearly impossible to stop because they merely reflect "established case law"...

ATF Releases New Pistol Brace Guidelines
According to Firearm Chronicles
Read the proposed rule here: https://www.atf.gov/file/154871/download


On Monday, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) released its proposed rule on pistol braces.

It starts by saying that any brace that the manufacturer intends to be fired from the shoulder will be considered a short-barreled rifle (SBR) and subjected to the National Firearms Act (NFA). The document further creates a points system that would allow the ATF to make most pistol braces SBR.

The maximum length of a pistol would be 26 inches. That would make any AR15 style pistol with a barrel over seven inches an SBR regardless of any other determination features. The measurements of a seven-inch AR pistol from the rear of the buffer tube to the front of the gun are 25 inches.

The document reads:

Given the public interest surrounding these issues, ATF is proposing to amend the definition of ‘rifle’ in 27 CFR 478.11 and 479.11, respectively, by adding a sentence at the end of each definition. The new sentence would clarify that the term ‘rifle’ includes any weapon with a rifled barrel and equipped with an attached ‘stabilizing brace’ that has objective design features and characteristics that indicate that the firearm is designed to be fired from the shoulder, as indicated on ATF Worksheet 4999.


1 point: Minor Indicator (the weapon could be fired from the shoulder)
2 points: Moderate Indicator (the weapon may be designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder)
3 points: Strong Indicator (the weapon is likely designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder)
4 points: Decisive Indicator (the weapon is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder

Even if a manufacturer’s product scores under four points, the ATF could determine that the company is trying to circumvent the NFA. The ATF could choose to charge the company with a crime. This power could discourage companies from selling braced pistols even if the ATF rules it is a pistol.

The ATF firearms like the Mossberg Shockwave and the TAC-14 will be considered Short-Barreled Shotguns (SBS). There is no way to get any “shotgun-based” guns that could make it through the new regulations.

Article continues below. Scroll to continue reading.
The ATF gives gun owners several choices.

The first choice is turning the guns into the ATF. The ATF says this choice would be at “no-cost” to gun owners. This move is gun confiscation. The second choice would be to install a barrel that more than 16 inches long. The third choice is to pay a $200 tax stamp and register it as an SBR. The final option would be to modify the brace and not sell it to anyone in the future.

The document gives some alternatives. These alternatives include making the rules just guidance. That chance would mean that they would not have the force of law. Other alternatives include grandfathering all firearms with braces or forgiveness of the tax stamp fee.

The comment period will open soon for pistol braces and the comment period on unfinished frame and receivers at still open.

The ATF would consider any gun with a score of four or more points an SBR. Firearms over 13 ½ inches would automatically be an SBR. If a pistol has a standard buffer tube, then the firearm would be assigned two points. The ATF would consider any gun that is over 120 ounces unloaded an SBR.

More confusingly, if a firearm has flip-up sights, then the ATF would give that gun one point towards becoming an SBR. The ATF would assign a gun with a red dot two points. The ATF doesn’t see why a shooter would use a red dot pistol on a pistol.

The ATF would assign any gun with a hand stop two points. That would put any firearm with a hand stop halfway to becoming an SBR. The ATF would consider any gun with a secondary grip as an SBR.

The ATF encourages all companies to resubmit their sample firearms to the ATF’s Tech Branch to be reexamined. It would cost the companies thousands of dollars for almost no chance of getting another determination letter stating that they can sell their gun as a pistol.

Read the proposed rule here: https://www.atf.gov/file/154871/download
Last edited by AJMD429 on Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by gamekeeper »

When "they" have finished registration of things that can and are being used they will follow the UK and demand the registration of deactivated weapons that have been through the proof house to ensure that they can never be made to fire again. That is the latest stupidity of the UK government.
Prison if you do not register a deactivated gun, they know not when to stop.... :evil:
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by piller »

And! Benchmade knife company will be right there wanting to cut up the guns.
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by Blaine »

In case you missed it, In Washington State, my 10-22 is now an "assault rifle".....waiting for the other shoe to drop.
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by piller »

10/22 an assault rifle? Only a FOOL would consider it such. I am sorry that you have so many idiots in the big cities there in Washington, Blaine. I am pretty sure that others think this way too. You would fit in in Texas.
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by Blaine »

piller wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:16 pm
10/22 an assault rifle? Only a FOOL would consider it such. I am sorry that you have so many idiots in the big cities there in Washington, Blaine. I am pretty sure that others think this way too. You would fit in in Texas.
Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind. I could get used to Big Bend Country in a heartbeat.
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by Malamute »

Theres discussion of this around the web. I think some of the info in the first post is somewhat misleading. From what I can tell so far, I think all the talk about points and pistols, and shokwaves/tac14s has to do WHEN A BRACE IS INSTALLED, and otherwise has no bearing at all in their classifications. If you have a common pistol buffer tube and no brace on an AR pistol, I dont believe the points or other issues matter. In other words, its the same as it was before braces came onto the market and became popular.

None of this should come as a surprise, regardless of ones like or not of the braces, it seems the majority of people using them use them in a way not entrirely in accordance with the one handed-strapped to the arm idea. Vast numbers of youtubes and internet discussions made that point (including here). If one doesnt have or use a brace, none of the news has much meaning. If one wants to color it like were losing something, a few years ago pretty much anyone would have suggested it was not a good idea to try to get around the SBR rules and put any sort of stock on a pistol. Somebody figured out a way to basically do that and get a pass for the time being, and I think most people were surprised it went through at the time. I guess maybe Im a commie since this doesnt surprise me that it finally went against them, and I think people are trying to make it into something like its a huge deprivation now but nobody would have even thought likely before braces came out. They slacked off for a while and allowed braces, now the concept has been abused pretty much, and they are back tracking, what a surprise. I think its become a political football for both sides more than anything.
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Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by AJMD429 »

The problem is the precedent it sets.

The wild-eyed plastic-gun-loving types who enjoy magazine dumps from the hip and trick out their guns like mall-ninjas and think the slightest inconvenience is ‘infringement’ are one of the reasons we don’t yet have asinine laws here like Nath gamekeeper Ambracol, and so many others around the world have.

If it is ok to prohibit or register ONE kind of firearm, that sets precedent that ANY kind of gun may be arbitrarily registered or banned. That’s what governments do, and how politicians think.

We always need to push back when freedom is at stake; after it is gone there is no way to push. We are already seeing erosion of our freedom of speech, the integrity of our elections, and the courts are increasingly reluctant to defend citizen against government. The Bill of Rights isn’t even being taught in some schools.

We’d best wake up and start pushing back on ALL fronts, whether it involves vintage leverguns, or the latest ‘military style’ firearms. After all, ONLY the latter have specific Constitutional protection; the former by implication do, but are at this point more ‘hobby’ than typical ‘militia’ weapons, which is what the Second Amendment alludes to.

We even need to push back on non-firearms issues, like property rights, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, habeas corpus, and many others. Otherwise we follow the path our nation's founders dreaded - slow decay from republic to democracy, then democracy to socialism. It’s an easy path to follow; all we have to do is be complacent until our own toes are stepped on.
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by Ray »

Malamute wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:07 pm
Theres discussion of this around the web. I think some of the info in the first post is somewhat misleading. From what I can tell so far, I think all the talk about points and pistols, and shokwaves/tac14s has to do WHEN A BRACE IS INSTALLED, and otherwise has no bearing at all in their classifications. If you have a common pistol buffer tube and no brace on an AR pistol, I dont believe the points or other issues matter. In other words, its the same as it was before braces came onto the market and became popular.

None of this should come as a surprise, regardless of ones like or not of the braces, it seems the majority of people using them use them in a way not entrirely in accordance with the one handed-strapped to the arm idea. Vast numbers of youtubes and internet discussions made that point (including here). If one doesnt have or use a brace, none of the news has much meaning. If one wants to color it like were losing something, a few years ago pretty much anyone would have suggested it was not a good idea to try to get around the SBR rules and put any sort of stock on a pistol. Somebody figured out a way to basically do that and get a pass for the time being, and I think most people were surprised it went through at the time. I guess maybe Im a commie since this doesnt surprise me that it finally went against them, and I think people are trying to make it into something like its a huge deprivation now but nobody would have even thought likely before braces came out. They slacked off for a while and allowed braces, now the concept has been abused pretty much, and they are back tracking, what a surprise. I think its become a political football for both sides more than anything.
Unless specifically exempted, just the barrel and overall length restrictions alone without any brace or other appendages are going to get our contenders and encores and xp-100s and the like. Perhaps even some N frame smiths and ruger super blackhawks. One atf official said "true handguns are meant to be fired one-handed." So now over educated obtuse twits with an obvious antigun bias are now to redefine "handguns" . Like the doc opined, metaphorically impossible to put the toothpaste back into the tube.....
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Re: ATF wants Lever Action Rifles registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by AJMD429 »

.

I guess all handguns, as well....

https://fullmagnews.com/2021/06/12/dems ... gislation/

Oh well, it's ok. Nothing to worry about. It won't happen. Trump will win. The wall will be built. Go back to sleep...
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Re: Update - Dems want all HANDGUNS registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by Bill in Oregon »

You've heard the "If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck ... " thing.
I frankly have looked at these so-called pistol ARs with their "forearm braces" and never been impressed with their utility or their credentials as a "handgun" except maybe in an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Under the GCAS of 1934 and 1968 these are pushing the envelope and tweaking our antagonists' noses. So are the AOW "any other weapon" sawed-off shotguns being made under this sobriquet by Mossberg and others. Many if not most of our gunmakers are revenue whores -- there is no gentler term -- and they don't give a stuff about our Constitutional rights if they can sell a few more hilariously useless units and please their investors. My dos centavos, and I am leaving the country in armor .... :lol:
Last edited by Bill in Oregon on Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Update - Dems want all HANDGUNS registered as NFA Weapons...

Post by AJMD429 »

Whether or not any one of us thinks a particular type of gun is silly, useful, ridiculous, awesome, or useless, isn’t the point - the point is that the government is going to demand a federal registry of ‘HANDGUNS’, which includes those [ good ] first generation Colt SAA’s and [ bad ] Calico 950’s and [ good ] 1911’s, and [ bad ] AR-pistols.

A ‘federal registry’ is basically what the NFA established for machine guns. At the time there were three reactions:

> ignorance; like most things political, the public is more interested in football and movie stars than things of substance; non-gun-owners pay little attention to gun laws, and if they ‘know’ anything about them it is only what they are told by the anti-gun ‘news’ media.

> opposition and warning; astute gun owners noted that even though ‘machine guns’ were not a huge deal, letting the NFA pass would set dangerous precedent.

> apathy; most gun owners thought machine guns unnecessary and silly, and shrugged off the law figuring it wasn’t going to affect their bolt actions, semiautos, pumps, and leverguns.

Now we see that precedent being applied, and the same reactions. As they say...history repeats itself.

The problem is, the already-established ‘reasonable’ penalty for an unregistered NFA weapon is a mandatory $250,000 fine and 10 years in jail. The courts and public are ok with that since the assumption is that they are going after gangsters and so on. Do you think that they will just waive the fines and sentences for someone who violates the same law, just because now the weapon in question is just an ‘unregistered handgun’ instead of an unregistered SBR...?

“Why didn’t you register that handgun...?”
“You must be planning a crime...!”
“You must be a terrorist...!”
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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