Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

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KirkD
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Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by KirkD »

It's been a very long time since I visited this forum. The older I get, the more responsibilities get assigned to me, so the past couple years have been just jammed. I'm still shooting vintage lever guns and that brings me to my latest acquisition, an original North West Mounted Police Winchester Model 1876 saddle ring carbine in 45-75. I've wanted one of these for years, since I grew up in western Canada with tales of the Mounted Police, and have travelled the prairies many times. This particular carbine was received in the warehouse on May 17, 1882 and shipped the very next day. It letters with 'Good quality' wood, Spanish meter rear sights, and 'large shank' (beefed up receiver where the barrel screws in - apparently, the Mounties put their carbines to hard use and the standard factory carbines broke where the barrel screwed into the receiver, so they requested a 'large shank'. It is in completely original, honest condition. Two inventories were done in the 1890's, one in 1894 and the other in 1897, and both of them show this carbine on charge to 'C' division at Fort Battleford. We can infer from that, that it was originally issued to the NWMP stationed at this fort in 1882. The interesting thing is that there was a major battle in 1885 near the fort during the North West Rebellion, in which the Mounties stationed at Fort Battleford took part, so it is likely that this carbine participated in the Battle of Cutknife against Chief Poundmaker and the Cree. The average NWMP travelled approximately 1,000 miles per year on horseback while on patrol with their carbines.

I have to say that I am thrilled to own this piece of western Canadian history, and have passed through the Battleford/Cutknife area more times than I can remember. I've got brass and dies, and am awaiting a custom mold from Accurate Molds. I'll be loading this to original ballistics.

NWMP 2500.jpg
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Last edited by KirkD on Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Old Savage »

Nice score!
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by piller »

Since you are staying so busy, send it here and I will shoot it for you.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by KirkD »

piller wrote:
Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:51 pm
Since you are staying so busy, send it here and I will shoot it for you.
Heh, heh! I'm making time to shoot this one. I have the brass and dies, I'm just waiting for a custom mould from Accurate Molds and then it's loading time!
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by .45colt »

I have been wondering for some time Kirk if an injun got your top not...... :shock: . It sure is good to see you post again an especially with a 45-75..... Cant wait to see the range report........................ :D .
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Walker »

That's a beauty Kirk! Don't believe I've seen one nicer... potential calender entry?
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by hondo1892 »

Those are way kool carbines. I never knew anything about them until I seen Tom Seleck with one in Crossfire Trail. I know you'll enjoy shooting it. I have a repop rifle and really enjoy shooting it in 45-60.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by AJMD429 »

Having the history of that specific gun is icing on the cake...!!! 8)
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by gamekeeper »

Great to see you posting again Kirk you've been missed. Congratulations on finding that Mountie's Carbine looking forward to a range report.... 8)
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by GunnyMack »

I'd say 'good quality' indeed! Great looking rifle, congrats on a great piece of history! Enjoy it- A LOT!
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by TraderVic »

What a find and what a cool piece of history you have there !
Congrats and enjoy your new Winchester.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I'm so glad to see you posting here. The history of that carbine is really interesting. Thank you for sharing.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by KirkD »

Glad to share this with you men. I’ll look forward to posting a range report once I have my mould and have figured out a load that duplicates the original ballistics.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Pitchy »

Cool beans Kirk, what a beauty. 8) :)
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Can't wait for your range report, Kirk. I briefly owned a repro, but to have put one's hands on the real thing -- and you being Canadian. I think the Good Lord surely must have "taken a likin' to ya."
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by KirkD »

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:58 am
I think the Good Lord surely must have "taken a likin' to ya."
Bill, there's something to what you said and a story behind it. I've wanted an original NWMP for years, to the point where I decided I'd gladly trade in or sell my modest collection of a half a dozen vintage Winchesters just to have one of these to enjoy. Eventually, I gave up that dream, since they were very hard to find and very expensive. Several months ago, while I was praying, I figured I'd mention to the Lord that I wouldn't mind having a NWMP carbine. I didn't actually ask for one, because it seemed so frivolous and trivial in light of how many much more worthwhile requests to bring before God, especially since I'm a clergyman and should be praying about much more important things. But I just wanted to let God know that I wouldn't mind having one, but it wasn't actually a spoken request. But I guess God knows a request when he sees it; you can't pull the wool over the eyes of God, heh, heh.

A month or so ago, a fellow I knew emailed me and within a few minutes we had arranged a private deal involving me parting with four of my old lever guns, and a bit of cash, in exchange for this beauty, and what a beauty it is .... the "good quality" wood is a real bonus. I was so happy to get this that I thanked God more times than I can think of .... I most certainly did not deserve it. For the remainder of the week, it was on display on the dining room table, but eventually, ones wife can start suggesting that it is time to get it off the dining room table, heh, heh. Sometimes, God just goes ahead and gives a fellow a desire of his heart that he didn't deserve and just couldn't bring himself to ask for.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Sarge »

That's a fantastic old Winchester Kirk. Congratulations on a once-in-a-lifetime find.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Leverluver »

KirkD...our own Halley's comet...doesn't show up very often but when he does he shows up with a flash :mrgreen: You were missed dude so stick around for a while.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by marlinman93 »

Amazing to see a RCMP 1876 carbine in such great condition! What a piece of history!
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

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Leverluver wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:17 am
KirkD...our own Halley's comet...doesn't show up very often but when he does he shows up with a flash :mrgreen: You were missed dude so stick around for a while.
Heh, heh .... "Halley's comet". :D
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by JOG »

Welcome back sir!
That is a fine looking old classic Winchester you lucked into.
Or perhaps the good lord heard your prayer!
Looking forward to hearing about your first range report.
How are the lands and groves in the barrel?
Condition looks pretty impressive for humping the back country!
A truly classic Winchester.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by KirkD »

JOG wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:30 am
How are the lands and groves in the barrel?
The lands and grooves are nice and sharp right from the chamber to the muzzle. I imagine that the NWMP had a disciplined approach to keeping their weapons clean, so I'm not surprised. I can hardly wait to see how this shoots. Hope my mould arrives this week.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by JOG »

KirkD wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:40 am
JOG wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:30 am
How are the lands and groves in the barrel?
The lands and grooves are nice and sharp right from the chamber to the muzzle. I imagine that the NWMP had a disciplined approach to keeping their weapons clean, so I'm not surprised. I can hardly wait to see how this shoots. Hope my mould arrives this week.
Fantastic! Congratulations!
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Leverluver »

In reference to the failures where the barrel screws into the action...I took my repo apart (not certain how original the specs are between the two) to send off for a color case job. While it was down I also intended to ream the 45-60 chamber out to 45-75. When I saw how little metal thickness there was in the rear of the chamber area (where the threaded barrel shank is) and then thought about making it even thinner by rechambering to 45-75, it kinda gave me the willies. I didn't intend on black powder loads which I'm sure it is fine with but a little voice inside me said to leave the 45-60 alone. It will be interesting to hear your reloading story as it unfolds. Thanks for including us in the journey.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by stretch »

Terrific Rifle! 8)

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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by OldWin »

Just beautiful Kirk. What a find.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by M. M. Wright »

Gorgeous rifle Kirk. Thanks for posting and come on range report. What size did the barrel slug? Is the mold coming a thousandths or so oversize?
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Kirk, that's a wonderful "sidebar" about just mentioning the carbine while in prayer. You are right: God knows what is in our hearts, and sometimes He demurs and lets a material thing come our way that makes us smile. After all, He loves us doesn't He? 8)
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by KirkD »

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:29 pm
Kirk, that's a wonderful "sidebar" about just mentioning the carbine while in prayer. You are right: God knows what is in our hearts, and sometimes He demurs and lets a material thing come our way that makes us smile. After all, He loves us doesn't He? 8)
I sure did smile!!
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
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Post by KirkD »

M. M. Wright wrote:
Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:15 pm
Gorgeous rifle Kirk. Thanks for posting and come on range report. What size did the barrel slug? Is the mold coming a thousandths or so oversize?
I have not slugged it. I've slugged so many '86 and '76 .457 groove diameter barrels and they never vary, that I'll shoot this first. Unless it's groups are too loose, I'll probably not bother slugging it. The mould is for .459 but I'll be sizing them down to .458 .... seems to be a sweet spot so far, but we shall see.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

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m.A.g.a. !
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by ollogger »

Well Kirk, you sure made another shinning example of finding a grand old Winchester, and a bit of help
never hurts, i made a trade the other day also but it pales in comparison




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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by CowboyTutt »

Kirk, equally glad to see you back! A few of us are returning, its great to see. Spectacular find too! I've always liked the 45-75 in a '76. Are you looking for a black powder load or smokeless? Cartridges of the World 9th says 24 grains of IMR 4198 with a 350 grain lead bullet at 1380 fps. It duplicates a factory load. -Tutt
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by piller »

350 grains at around 1300 fps? Should work great without punishing the shooter. That is very close to the .480 Ruger ballistics. I have never felt undergunned with that cartridge.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Congrats Kirk! Looking forward to the range report.

I'm with you on the busy; it gets worse every year! :shock:
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

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CowboyTutt wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:44 pm
Kirk, equally glad to see you back! A few of us are returning, its great to see. Spectacular find too! I've always liked the 45-75 in a '76. Are you looking for a black powder load or smokeless? Cartridges of the World 9th says 24 grains of IMR 4198 with a 350 grain lead bullet at 1380 fps. It duplicates a factory load. -Tutt
Thanks for that info! I've got lots of 4198 as well as 5744. That load info will be useful for me developing a load with 5744, but I will certainly try that IMR 4198 load first.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by CowboyTutt »

Well, i don't think I have as many books as 006 for sure and for certain, but glad I could help out in this case. A couple of us have copies of QuickLoad and could maybe help further with its program with smokeless. I just wasn't sure what you wanted to run in it. I would be happy to try to help further but I'm off soon for summer vacation including Ukraine for 3 weeks starting in July, so might have to wait a bit after that. But still willing to help after that.

So glad you are back, and happy to help if I can!

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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

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Ukraine that caught my eye. Today I met a man moving his family there. Tutt, perhaps you could post some pictures and tell us about your travels when you get back.
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Grizz, I would move there if I could myself. I have a blast there every year for 8 years except last summer when I couldn't go because of COVID. Maybe after I retire and I'm on a fixed income I will move there. Money goes much farther there. I'll post some pics when I get back. -Tutt
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

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CowboyTutt wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:38 pm
I'm off soon for summer vacation including Ukraine for 3 weeks starting in July
Thank you for that offer. I might take you up on that offer for 5744. I'll have to measure and confirm the volume of my casings, as well as bullet seating depth. I spent a month working in Lviv, Ukraine back when it was part of the USSR. It was a bit rough given the situation at the time ... no food in the stores and massive lineups if any food became available, everything breaking down because no one cared anymore, but I had wonderful times with the people making the best of it. I imagine things have changed hugely since communism collapsed. I still feel a connection to the people because some of my ancestors came from there on my mother's side.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by piller »

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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Grizz »

i meet the nicest people with Ukraine connections on this forum. maybe i can sail there some day when i sail away.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

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That is simply fantastic!
Sincerely,

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Hobie, you keep posting Bro!!!! We miss you!!!! Big cyber hug!

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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by Hombre »

What a fantastic carbine! I am very happy for you, Kirk! Looking forward to the range report.
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Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by KirkD »

CowboyTutt wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:38 pm
happy to help if I can!
Tutt, I've sent a PM.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
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CowboyTutt
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2756
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 pm
Location: Ukiah, CA

Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by CowboyTutt »

Got it! Sent you a response. Maybe we can video that this weekend for fun. What time zone you in? -Tutt
"It ain't dead! As long as there's ONE COWBOY taking care of ONE COW, it ain't dead!!!" (the Cowboy Way)
-Monte Walsh (Selleck version)
ArcticGoose
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:36 pm
Location: Alaska

Re: Original North West Mounted Police Winchester carbine

Post by ArcticGoose »

Another beautiful rifle! Love the history behind that one. Looking forward to the range report. The 1876 is a Winchester I have never messed with, but would like to.
"Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not used one or is un-wittingly commenting on their marksmanship." Phil Shoemaker
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