180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
mickbr
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 903
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:29 pm

180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by mickbr »

Heavy bullet in the little case, anyone used it? I have heard reports of pushing it almost 1800fps from carbines. I am thinking that is almost a large medium game load. Any reports for it at wheelgun speeds too?
User avatar
GunnyMack
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9936
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am
Location: Not where I want to be!

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by GunnyMack »

I haven't but I remember a 200gr bullet that was for the pistol silhouette shooters, FMJ.
That being said when I was developing loads for my 41 mag I spoke with techs at Hornady, Speer and Nosler. When I said my load was 1800+/- Hornady said they wouldn't recommend that velocity. Nosler said sure go for it.
That being said, 1800 at the muzzle is not what a bullet is doing at 50 75 or 100 yards. So take the velocity range with a grain of salt.
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3838
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

That's a deadly little bullet and you can launch it at pretty good velocities with powders like Lil-gun.

Years ago I had Mic build me a Marlin 94 to feed that bullet crimped in the bottom cannelure at max velocities. I liked it.
User avatar
fordwannabe
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3369
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:52 am
Location: Womelsdorf PA

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by fordwannabe »

This is 7 shots from my Marlin 1894 carbine at 75 yards with 180 XTP and some Lil’ Gun. Velocity was 1625-1650 range.
0FC594DF-C85B-4017-B258-03C4F2E00396.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 31931
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by AJMD429 »

No need for that kind of velocity, other than you need enough RPM from your twist-rate and velocity to be stable. Many whitetail out to 100 yards drop quickly to 180 grain 357s at 1,400–1,600 FPS. Work up what shoots the smallest groups at 100 yards, and even if it is ‘slow’ the drop will be small enough you can eyeball it afield.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
User avatar
wvfarrier
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1440
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:27 am
Location: West (by GOD) Virginia

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by wvfarrier »

Its a great bullet for a 357 carbine. Its durable enough to handle the velocities of a carbine when striking bone and still hold together. This one was recovered from a 185# black bear being pushed by Lil Gun.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
A bondservant of our Lord, Christ Jesus
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3838
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I never recovered a bullet, but the damage was significant and it blew a hole right through the deer I shot with it.

If I were to do that again, I would probably go a bit slower and use 14-15 gr 2400. As has been mentioned, there's no reason to push that bullet as hard as I did.
Rockrat
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 439
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:35 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Rockrat »

Try some MP300 with that bullet in your rifle. eye opener with the velocities and accuracy.
jmiller
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by jmiller »

You’re not going to get 1800 FPS with 180g XTP’s in your rifle. More likely you can get around 1600 FPS with a stout load of H110/WW296. Lil Gun will give good velocity, but it burns too hot for my liking and it has never given me the accuracy that 110/296 has....in any gun. I’ve been hunting with the .357mag for over fifty years now, and for forty years I hunted exclusively with the .357mag in handguns. About a decade ago I got a bit bored with handgun hunting and got a Marlin lever gun in 357mag, and a Winchester Low Wall in 357max. Since then I’ve gotten two more 357max guns in TC Encores. During this fifty + years I’ve shot over fifty deer with the 357mag handgun and around another twenty with 357mag and 357max rifles. Most of the deer taken were taken with Hornady XTP bullets...not all, but most. The 180g work well in a rifle, better than in a handgun. The 158g XTP JHP usually don’t exit in either a handgun or a rifle. The 158g FP XTP are the best compromise for velocity and penetration. They can be driven faster than the JHP’s and give decent expansion up to a hundred yards in a rifle. In my opinion if you can get them to shoot well they are your best choice. If you recover enough bullets over time and look at the expansion and distance shot it’s very apparent that the 357mag sheds energy rather quickly. Attached is a picture of two bullets taken from one deer and both were broadside shots. One shot was at a measured 90 yards and the second shot was at 35 yards. Both were from a max load of ww296. Notice the difference in expansion...this is typical in a handgun. In a rifle you get the same results but out another thirty or so yards. Notice the odd bump on the bullet base?
D7A036BC-7ECB-4861-A731-60C4E43FF5FB.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
Scott Tschirhart
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3838
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

What do you think is the cause of the bump on the base?
ywaltzucanrknrl
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by ywaltzucanrknrl »

Good thread, interesting stuff.

I'm guessing the copper jacket material is pretty thin at the base and the lead core extends very close to the base, allowing the impact force to push the lead into the jacket at the base and bulge it----I've never seen one of the XTP's sectioned, but doing so would shed some light.
1894cfan
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1493
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:07 am

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by 1894cfan »

If the 180 XTP looks like that after going through deer at 90 and 35 yards :shock: , I'll stick with the NOE 182 WFN! YMMV
jmiller
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by jmiller »

1894cfan wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 1:44 pm If the 180 XTP looks like that after going through deer at 90 and 35 yards :shock: , I'll stick with the NOE 182 WFN! YMMV
Please post some of your pics using the NOE 182 at the same distances. I’d be very interested in seeing the results. How many have you shot with the .357mag handgun? I’m always willing to learn when the opportunity presents itself.
Note: I’ve never lost a deer with the .357mag or .357max using either the handgun or the rifle. Accuracy is paramount to success. The only deer I’ve ever lost with a handgun was with a model 629 full power 44mag (240g XTP and ww296 powder). I simply got a bad hit. If you hit them right you get them. I’ve never found any cast bullet that shoots as accurately as a good jacketed bullet in either a handgun or rifle.
User avatar
Old Savage
Posting leader...
Posts: 16686
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Old Savage »

From a friend's Browning stainless at 100 yd. He used to write cast bullet articles for Rifle and Handloader. This was a full power 250 gr. load. Not too unusual for Ron.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

Image
User avatar
Sarge
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 864
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:54 am
Location: MO

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Sarge »

Next time my local component shop has a box of 180 XTP, I'm going to throttle them up in my old Ballard rifled Marlin 35 Rem.
People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.
mickbr
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 903
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by mickbr »

jmiller wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 8:16 am You’re not going to get 1800 FPS with 180g XTP’s in your rifle.
Fellas over at thehighroad are and ruger forums in their 357/77. probably not published loads no but then neither are Paco's :)
1894cfan
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1493
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:07 am

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by 1894cfan »

Don't have any pics, don't have any 180XTP bullets, never used on game. DO have an NOE 182 WFN four cavity bullet mold!
I probably shouldn't have phrased it the way I did, but there it is. Any living thing don't take kindly to having holes poked in them! Plan on using the 182 WFNs for defense WHEN the time comes! YMMV
Last edited by 1894cfan on Mon May 24, 2021 11:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Ray
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2824
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:45 am

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Ray »

Deleted.
Last edited by Ray on Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
m.A.g.a. !
User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by crs »

The only 180 grain ammo used in my .357 rifle was Buffalo Bore and it was plenty accurate for deer hunting.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by Grizz »

shot first deer with a 243, blew half the lungs [more or less] out the exit hole. missed all the edible parts. Dad was upset. everyone else was skunked. i was raised to NOT hunt food with hollow points, and i still don't. it's tribal preferences i guess
mickbr
Levergunner 3.0
Posts: 903
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:29 pm

Re: 180 XTP in 357 carbine.

Post by mickbr »

Thanks for all the advice on this bullet folks. I think as Doc and Jmiller say this doesnt have to pushed crazy. Going of the BC figures(for what they are worth), starting at 1450fps its still 1200+ at 100 yards. Should be a good game taker.
Post Reply