Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

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JimT
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Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by JimT »

(This is from an article I wrote on the old sixgunner.com website many years ago)

WINCHESTER

The Model 1892 Winchester was designed as a successor to the Model 1873 Winchester. As an improvement on the 1873's design it was stronger and had many features that were not found on the '73. Basically a scaled-down 1886, the action was sleek, short and smooth. It was well made, functioned very well, was well-balanced and pleasing to the eye. In short, it was a winner! Even though other models were introduced in more powerful calibers the Model 92 hung on right up until WW II.

Produced from 1892 until 1941, well over a million were churned out from the Winchester plant in various configurations and calibers with .32-20, .38-40, .44-40 being the most popular. A few were made in .25-20 and some rare ones in .218 Bee.


EL TIGRE

In Spain in 1929 , the company of Gárate y Anitúa made a copy of the Model 92 Winchester in .44-40 called "El Tigre". These were a very close (if not exact) copy of the Model 92.

Apparently made by the thousands, these were available in the US in the 1950's and 60's for relatively little money. Chuck Conners carried one in his scabbard on the show "The Rifleman" ... it was used as the saddle gun and for scenes where the gun may get banged around a bit .... saving the more valuable Winchester '92 for the close-up scenes.

ROSSI
Amadeus Rossi, SA manufactures its classic rifles in San Leopoldo, Brazil. I find it interesting that they also chose a cat for their copy of the Winchester 92, calling it the "Puma". What checking I did revealed no connection between Rossi and Gárate y Anitúa ... though someone may have more historical insight than I concerning this.

Rossi started manufacturing their copy of the Winchester Model 92 some years ago, importing it through Interarms. There have been some changes since the late 1990's ..... From Rossi's FAQ on their website - "There is a new company, BrazTech, authorized to distribute Rossi firearms in North America. BrazTech was formed by the partnership of Rossi and Taurus International Manufacturing, Inc. and is headquartered in Miami, Florida. Previously, Rossi was distributed by Interarms of Alexandria, Virginia." http://www.rossiusa.com/faq.html

The guns produced since BrazTech took over feature a safety on top of the bolt. This safety is a firing pin block and allows the action to be cycled with the safety on.

"...the .357 is a whole new creature in a rifle.."
- Paco Kelly - LEVERGUNS, page 77

357 Rossi 92
20" Carbine
Velocities recorded at 10 ft. from muzzle to first screen

Cor-Bon .357 Magnum

200 gr. hardcast LBT-type (advertised @ 1200 fps) - 1376 fps
140 gr. JHP (advertised @ 1325 fps) - 1741 fps
125 gr. JHP (advertised @ 1450 fps) - 2062 fps
110 gr. JHP (advertised @ 1500 fps) - 2183 fps

Black Hills .357 Magnum

125 gr. JHP - 2020 fps

Handloads - .357 Magnum

CCI Small Pistol Primers
140 gr. Speer JHP 8 gr. Unique - 1463 fps
158 gr. Speer Gold Dot - 18.5 gr. H-110 - 1731 fps
160 gr. LBT LFN 17 gr. WC820 - 1830 fps
180 gr. LBT LFN 13 gr. WC820 - 1511 fps
160 gr. SAECO SWC 14.5 gr. 2400 - 1640 fps

.38 Special Handloads

148 gr. HBWC (seated flush with end of case) 3.0 gr. 700X - 942 fps
115 gr. 9mm SWC 3.0 gr. 700X - 908 fps
158 gr. RNFP 3.0 gr. 700X - 1006 fps

Cor-Bon Black Powder loads
158 gr. flat round-nose - 864 fps .... these are a HOOT! feed nice too

Black Powder Handloads
357 Magnum case – 21 gr. DuPont FFg – 158 gr. RNFP – 1049 fps
38 Special case – 18.8 gr. DuPont FFg – 158 gr. RNFP – 970 fps
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Old Savage
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by Old Savage »

Jim, thanks for the article. Interesting info. One question, I am supposing some Win 92s have been converted to .357. Any info on that?
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JimT
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Old Savage wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:21 am Jim, thanks for the article. Interesting info. One question, I am supposing some Win 92s have been converted to .357. Any info on that?
I have not personally used one. I have handled them. That was the first conversion of a 92 that I ever saw ... in a gun shop in Phoenix back about 1960. Really slick. I don't know about the black powder guns but I believe the later 92's are perfect for the caliber.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Jim,

I still have your old 92 Rossi that you put so much work into.

Am I correct in assuming that these chronograph results were from this rifle?
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:42 am Jim,

I still have your old 92 Rossi that you put so much work into.

Am I correct in assuming that these chronograph results were from this rifle?
YESSIR! I used it for that article and another that I did on how to take down a Rossi 92. That piece is at https://leverguns.com/articles/taylor/field_strip.htm
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by TraderVic »

An interesting bit of trivia ; I don't know how many of you have heard of the Jordan Buck, which held the world record as the largest whitetail deer for many years.
The buck was shot by Jim Jordan in 1914 while hunting along the Yellow River just south of Danbury, WI. Some folks also reference this buck as "The Danbury Buck".
Anyway, Jim (a backwoodsman) was hunting with an 1892 Winchester, 25/20 and dropped the buck with a spine shot. Obviously the 25/20 is not, and never has been considered adequate for large game. Back in those days one used what one had, and Jim had a 25/20.
Jim, I do enjoy reading about your experiences with numerous leverguns. Thanks for posting this information and I hope this did not detract from your thread.
Regards, Vic
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by piller »

For a deer to get that big, it had to be smart. Jordan must have been a good hunter. To use a levergun in a not so powerful caliber really shows that it can be done.
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by TraderVic »

piller wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:25 am For a deer to get that big, it had to be smart. Jordan must have been a good hunter. To use a levergun in a not so powerful caliber really shows that it can be done.
This is true. The story goes like this, Jim was hunting along the Yellow River bottoms between a RR track and the river (river is probably 100 - 150 ft wide). A train whistle spooked the bedded buck and he got up within range of Jim.
Jim shot him, the buck dropped, but got back up and Jim missed with his second shot. The buck ran across the river and stood on the opposite bank where Jim apparently aimed for his spine and dropped him for good.

Backwoodsmen like Jim were pretty savvy back then, they worked as loggers in the winters, farmed a bit in the warmer season, trapped in the fall, etc.
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JimT
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Great story! It can be done if one has to.
I killed a nice Mule Deer buck once with my .22 Single Six. Didn't want to but it had been wounded severely and no one else had any ammo. All I had was the .22 so ..... I managed to shoot it in the back of the head as it was going away from me.
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Old Winchester ads classified the .32-20 as a deer cartridge and it seems like there were a lot of these guns in the more civilized parts of Texas.
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by JimT »

Today's .32-20 factory loads are anemic. There were hotter loads available years ago.

Handloads
.32-20 Marlin 1894CL

All with CCI Small Rifle Primers
Chronographed at 10 feet from muzzle

12 gr. 2400
Speer 100 gr. JHP
1992 fps
Lyman #3118 120 gr. cast
1912 fps
Lee 95 gr. cast
2061 fps

14 gr. 296
Speer 100 gr. JHP
2108 fps
Lyman #3118 120 gr. cast
1987 fps
Lee 95 gr. cast
2159 fps
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by AmBraCol »

It's my understanding that the 32-20 out of a rifle makes a pretty decent deep hole drill for running phone lines through a wall...
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by JimT »

AmBraCol wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 8:33 pm It's my understanding that the 32-20 out of a rifle makes a pretty decent deep hole drill for running phone lines through a wall...
What..JPG
I plead ignorance! :lol:
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by piller »

In the Dallas area, I run into quite a few folks who use a 7mm Rem Mag to hunt deer. Comparing the numbers on paper, the .25-20 and the .32-20 to the 7mm Rem Mag, it really starts to become apparent that Jordan was a good shot and a good hunter. I would bet that the amount of bullet damaged meat from that .25-20 was too little to notice. A 7mm Rem Mag seems to do a lot of damage from the 2 times I have seen one used. I have used a .270, a .30-06, and a .30-30 a few times each. For the distances in the area where I have hunted for the last 20 years, a .30-30 is perfect. Never having used a .32-20 or a .25-20, I would just be guessing. The fact that we have a Henry in .327 Federal Magnum should show that I think the .32-20 would work around here. Out in Mule deer country it would probably not have the range for my lower level skill at sneaking up on the deer. Out of a rifle, there is not much difference in a .32-20 and a .327 Fed Mag.
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by OldWin »

I've got several 92 Winchesters. They are all in 38-40 and 44-40, with the vast majority in 38-40. In many ways, the 92 is my favorite Winchester.
What I did NOT have was a rifle of any kind in .357.
About 20 years ago, I kind of abandoned the .357 for some strange reason. For whatever reason, I've rediscovered it in the last several. I now have more .357s than I can shake a stick at, from a 2nd generation Colt SAA to a 2.5" round butt model 19-5.
My buddy had an old Interarms Rossi 92 that just looked "right" to me (sorry Six). It had a saddle ring, carbine butt, and he had made the wood look right. The only thing that didn't look like an original was the front sight/band.
It took me a good amount of time, but I finally convinced him to let it go. He had put a nice steel 66 Lyman on it too.
He told me it was a shooter and he was right.
The ejector spring was too stiff so I pulled it down to fix that and slicked it up while I was in there. It runs like champ now, and doesn't put my brass into orbit.
My kid stood there one day and ran about 200rnds through it. I think he'd still be shooting it if we hadn't run out of ammo. He bought a stainless one as soon as we got home. It was his choice of rifle to take on our month long trip to Alaska in 2019.
This is mine.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by crs »

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This M1892 Winchester had been converted to .357 Mag and I found it at a gun show in Dallas back when I was hooting my M19 .357 a lot and wanted a .357 rifle. It is a keeper.
I have no information onw ho did the conversion to .357 or when it was done. When I bought it, the rifle showed long and heavy use as the serial number is worn nearly off and only partly visible. The Bishop stocks were also worn and had to be refinished . The 20 inch Douglas barrel is accurate and balances well.
It is .357 only as 38 special will barely hit the target at 50 yards. With Super Vel 110 and 125 grain .357 ammo, it is quite accurate - the faster, the better. I took my first feral hog with 125 grain JHP to the left eye - DRT.

As expected this is a handy and accurate rifle with adequate killing power out to and beyond 100 yards.
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by crs »

Jim T said "I have not personally used one. I have handled them. That was the first conversion of a 92 that I ever saw ... in a gun shop in Phoenix back about 1960. Really slick. I don't know about the black powder guns but I believe the later 92's are perfect for the caliber."

Well Jim, you can shoot mine if you are ever in East Texas- just let me know that you are coming and we can get a couple of other local Levergunners and go shoot on a friends farm nearby.
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by piller »

Not too long back, I got my first .357. I cannot explain why I have overlooked them for so long. Mine is a Ruger GP100 six inch. I chose the longer barrel for the purpose of hunting with it. No hunting yet, but it is accurate.
D. Brian Casady
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by JimT »

crs wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:29 am Well Jim, you can shoot mine if you are ever in East Texas- just let me know that you are coming and we can get a couple of other local Levergunners and go shoot on a friends farm nearby.
That sounds like it would be fun!
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

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If things ever get back to normal, a leveraction .357 will be my next firearm. Then a .45 Colt leveraction. Then...
D. Brian Casady
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Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
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Re: Model 92 Leverguns ... .357 Magnum

Post by Grizz »

piller wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:30 am If things ever get back to normal, a leveraction .357 will be my next firearm. Then a .45 Colt leveraction. Then...
Model94RangerCompace.jpg
mine looks like this. it shoots straight. it liked the white box 110gr ammo. i have few old hand loads i need to get rid of. just don't know when it'll happen . . . . if anyone is bothered with an aggressive deer that needs eating, i could test the carbine if you dig the pit to cook in . . . LOL
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