300 grain in 44 special

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mickbr
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300 grain in 44 special

Post by mickbr »

Anyone have sources of load data for the above, or heavier? I know it probably dont make a lot of sense but I also know some folks out there probably try it anyway. :) Thanks for any links.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by vancelw »

Well, I thought I had at least one source but haven't found it, yet.
I know googling "300 .44 special" brings up a lot of articles and forum discussions. Careful....some i saw posted by individuals were hotter than .44 mag loads :shock:

I just loaded several 300 gr Nosler JHP using 20.0 gr of Win296 in .44 magnum. That's a compressed load in a magnum case. At. 44 magnum pressures....A 300 grain doesn't leave much room for powder in a Special case.

Post a link if you find a good one.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by AmBraCol »

Best bet would be a 300 gr cast, lubed with appropriate BP lube over a slightly compressed load of FFFg. That would be a hoot to shoot!
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Leverluver »

"At. 44 magnum pressures....A 300 grain doesn't leave much room for powder in a Special case."

With the special having a slightly (only .005") longer SAAMI OAL, I do not see why the 44Sp should run out of powder space any sooner than the magnum assuming the same powder, pressures and bullet. I only have one pistol (FA 97) that could put up with magnum pressures but that light pistol and my arthritic hands want nothing to do with that. Now-a-days I might run out of any number of rounds before I get back to the loading bench but I try to never run out of 44Russian as it shoots like a house a-fire in every special I own.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by vancelw »

Leverluver wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:51 am
"At. 44 magnum pressures....A 300 grain doesn't leave much room for powder in a Special case."

With the special having a slightly (only .005") longer SAAMI OAL, I do not see why the 44Sp should run out of powder space any sooner than the magnum assuming the same powder, pressures and bullet.
If you crimp to the cannelure, it will, since the case is shorter. But you ARE going to be using less powder, so it shouldn't really be an issue.
Most likely a person would use cast bullets, unless they wanted a hunting load or a self defense load and were set on using the Special instead of a magnum.

It will depend a lot on what firearm the OP wants to use to determine what pressures he wants to stay under.
Here is some 25K data, which includes a 307 grain cast bullet.
44 Special 25k Brian Pearce Aug-Sept 2005 Handloader.JPG
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by piller »

Just wondering: would the 300 grain bullet in a .44 Special have much power at a safe load? Not knowing which handgun the round is intended to be fired from, I am somewhat concerned for safety. I remember when 86er was trying to work up a companion handgun load for carry while hunting. He and Mike Rintoul were using a .44 special, and they abandoned the project because it could not safely reach the power level he was looking for. They were even getting help on powder selection from at least one major manufacturer.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by JimT »

There is such a thing as "Diminishing Returns." You run into it quickly using heavy for caliber bullets.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Ray »

I'm sure you have already performed exhaustive internet researches before asking this. I found quite a few similar online queries with the inevitable "ballistics experts" severely castigating the humble seeker of knowledge.

Perusing older printed data I found a hodgdon published load circa 1996 for non-specified 300 gr. jacketed and H4227. Starting load 9.8 gr.....Maximum 11.5 gr. showing 752 fps.....18,600 c.u.p. chamber pressure. That is on the high-end of kosher pressure for that cartridge.

I have used the lee 310 gr. over 9 gr. of 2400 in heavy sixguns but never in a charter, rossi, taurus.....

As for power, a 300 gr. .43 caliber at even a wobbly 500 fps should drive through the navel of the largest brigand's beer belly and bounce off of his backbone. Who cares the strictly theoretic foot pounds cipher much less the tko factor.

Ray with sawed-down (500 fps)1851 pietta in his pocket. The experts decry that as sub .25 acp power.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by piller »

Ray, I might not be able to bounce it offof the bad guy's spine in a fast changing interpersonal crisis situation. I could miss.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Catshooter »

It might not bounce off! Three hundred grains is a lot going-forwardness.


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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by AmBraCol »

Ray wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:13 pm
I'm sure you have already performed exhaustive internet researches before asking this. I found quite a few similar online queries with the inevitable "ballistics experts" severely castigating the humble seeker of knowledge.

Perusing older printed data I found a hodgdon published load circa 1996 for non-specified 300 gr. jacketed and H4227. Starting load 9.8 gr.....Maximum 11.5 gr. showing 752 fps.....18,600 c.u.p. chamber pressure. That is on the high-end of kosher pressure for that cartridge.

I have used the lee 310 gr. over 9 gr. of 2400 in heavy sixguns but never in a charter, rossi, taurus.....

As for power, a 300 gr. .43 caliber at even a wobbly 500 fps should drive through the navel of the largest brigand's beer belly and bounce off of his backbone. Who cares the strictly theoretic foot pounds cipher much less the tko factor.

Ray with sawed-down (500 fps)1851 pietta in his pocket. The experts decry that as sub .25 acp power.
Years ago I was invited to a friend's end of year Christmas party. They had a small hog tethered outside awaiting the sacrificial knife, something I'm adverse to. Sure don't mind putting a critter down, but hate listening to them squeal or seeing them as they bleed out. So I asked, "Do you mind if I do the honors with my 38?" to which he acquiesced. I went out and popped that hog in the forehead, forgetting to hold slightly low and right since my Llama hits high and left. The shot went higher and off center from where I wanted, but still hit the fuse box and the hog went down right there. I'd chronographed the factory loads at 625 fps out of the 4" barrel, with a 150 grain swaged slug. The bullet hit the vertebrae and split in two. About a 1/4 of it went down into the right shoulder and showed up as we were skinning it out. The rest of it came to rest in the left ham. Not bad penetration at all from a "puny, underpowered 38". A 300 grain .430 slug at even 700 FPS is nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by piller »

Even a tied hog was slightly missed. See, it can happen.
Although, it does seem that the bullet still worked.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by mickbr »

Thanks for the data fellas. I recall manuals from the old days where it seemed to be more common. I remember a couple of write-ups from decades ago on it too.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I must confess to having recurring thoughts of a 300 grain bullet at 500 feet per second (maybe a WFN or broad SWC). I don't think it would be a weak sister at all, and might be really effective on folks, maybe a load to try in a Charter Arms. I'm quite sure it would punch through a person and the dwell time as it tears through the body would probably not be good for them.

Recoil would be manageable, muzzle blast (which bothers me much more than recoil) would be pretty low.

One of the reasons I keep coming back to the Keith bullet over 7.5 gr of Unique is that it isn't terribly loud.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by vancelw »

I have looked through every manual and magazine I can think of around the house and can't find a published 300 gr load. I would have sworn I had seen some. Might still find it someday.
All the older manuals have 246 and 240 gr loads. Some of the newer ones are more varied.
That one I posted above came from Handloader magazine that I found on an internet search.

As to effectiveness....I wouldn't want to be shot by a 300 gr anything. And it would probably be fun to bang steel with. Maybe not too far out (might run out of Kentucky windage) :D

I have had oldtimers my whole life tell me .45 Colt wasn't enough for deer. Granted, they were from West Texas or Montana and used to shooting longer distances on mule deer. But I have taken several deer with anything from 300 gr jacketed +P+ down to 255 gr RN cast in a normal pressure load.

I have 7 (or 8 or 9...lost count :oops: ) guns capable of shooting .44 Special and am very interested in this topic. I'm even looking to get a .44 Russian. Already have the brass and dies.... :D
....now I gotta go dig through the safe and see what I have.....
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by earlmck »

I don't know about "real life" but when I play around in QuickLoad with this concept it looks to me like Lil' Gun would be the cat's miastrophy. And then when I looked at the Hodgden site they don't have any 300 grain loads in the 44 Spcl, but they had my QL generated 44 Spcl load in the 44 mag but at 15k psi more out of the 44 mag than QL thought you'd get from a 44 Spcl. So maybe QL isn't worth poop when predicting Lil' Gun for revolvers.

But I still think that Lil' Gun would be where I'd start if I were trying to do a 44 Spcl load with that heavy bullet, though all my experience with Lil' Gun has been in rifles. I know it'll really zing a hornet bullet out the barrel with quite a lot less powder than Hodgden says to use, and there are a modest number of us pea-shooters using the stuff for low-pressure cast bullet loads in 25/20 and 32/20. So I know that at least in rifles it burns nicely at much lower pressures than you'd expect of a ball powder at higher velocities than predicted.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Grizz »

never have shot 44spcl in my 44mag, although it's the house load for the redhawk. i don't remember the bullet weight.

but i have shot scads of low velocity 325Gr out of 44 mag brass. someone told me it was something like 1100 fps, sneering at my chickenpoopedness with the low pressure load. however, it was my go-to hunting load making winter meat supplies for years.

all to say that I think that 300 or 325 from 44spcl cases should be simple. the way i started with 44mag without any internet or really any heavy for caliber info was by scaling back loads and experimenting STARTING AT THE LOW END. my final load was slow enough that in the right light i could see the bullets traveling to the target. and it was the HAMMER on deer.

what are the case capacities? I am shooting a 405Gr bullet out of the redhawk in a safe lower pressure load. 300Gr should be easy, but idk what idk.

hope you find your load, sounds like it will be a winner for your guns
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Grizz wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 11:07 am
my final load was slow enough that in the right light i could see the bullets traveling to the target. and it was the HAMMER on deer.
[/quote

I have seen videos of Lynn Thompson shooting hogs and buffalo with a .44 mag Redhawk and Hornady 300 grain factory ammo.

Those bullets can be seen in flight and he had no trouble knocking all manner of animals over with that combination.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Grizz »

yeah, it's kind of like having a very short carbine in hand. i hope someone can get that 44 spcl info together because i can't imagine that it would not be a great hunting load.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Sixgun »

That's a no brainer....but first the gun that it's going to be shot out of needs to be identified.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Ray »

AmBraCol wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:14 am
Best bet would be a 300 gr cast, lubed with appropriate BP lube over a slightly compressed load of FFFg. That would be a hoot to shoot!
If you're gonna try this it is almost a requirement to use either tool-bench improvised loading implements or the mallet powered lee loader.

There was a fellow here once who boasted long and hard about his new dillon that he had loaded 10,000 rounds on in just a little while. I had spent the better part of the day that I first read that post using an awl, dowel, wooden block, and mallet to load some obsolete metric cases that I didn't have the correct dies/shellholders for. Yes, you lose a few primers to unwanted "bangs" during seating with the wood block, dowel and mallet but the ringing in the left ear soon abates.....You'd never guess how I sized the bullets down.....Hint.....jewellers or small ball peen and the mini-anvil on the bench-vise.....
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by AmBraCol »

Ray wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:37 pm
AmBraCol wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 9:14 am
Best bet would be a 300 gr cast, lubed with appropriate BP lube over a slightly compressed load of FFFg. That would be a hoot to shoot!
If you're gonna try this it is almost a requirement to use either tool-bench improvised loading implements or the mallet powered lee loader.

There was a fellow here once who boasted long and hard about his new dillon that he had loaded 10,000 rounds on in just a little while. I had spent the better part of the day that I first read that post using an awl, dowel, wooden block, and mallet to load some obsolete metric cases that I didn't have the correct dies/shellholders for. Yes, you lose a few primers to unwanted "bangs" during seating with the wood block, dowel and mallet but the ringing in the left ear soon abates.....You'd never guess how I sized the bullets down.....Hint.....jewellers or small ball peen and the mini-anvil on the bench-vise.....
Where there's a will, there's a way! I loaded a few Berdan primed 38's back in the day by removing the anvil with a drill bit and keeping them in the light target load category. No pressure signs in spite of having a triple flash hole. Reloaded a couple of 30 Mauser rounds the same way. Managed two reloads before there was not enough neck tension to hold the slug. The first was done by pulling the original bullet, carefully removing the dud primer and Berdan pin, seating a small pistol primer, and an appropriate load of Unique, IIRC, then easing the bullet back into the case. The second one was after shooting the afore mentioned round, using some 30 caliber jacketed bullets that somehow had found their way to that part of the Amazon Basin.

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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Ray »

"Managed two reloads before there was not enough neck tension to hold the slug"

If there is a case neck to be sized and no dies, then there is are common slip joint pliers (the center oval part of the jaws) that will gently squeeze it......or you can carefully tap-tap-tap with a hammer while rolling on anvil or bench-top......Sized too much? Insert bullet nose first and tap-tap-tap....turn over and seat.....

Chamber load only ! Absolutely no tube magazines unless you Cyanoacrylate it !

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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Catshooter »

Yep, need to know the sixgun involved.

The heaviest I've ever loaded in the Special was an RCBS Keith style that weighed 275 or so. I don't recall the load, I'm sure it was some ridiculous amount of 2400.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Bullard4075 »

Seems I asked this same question a while back with mixed (if I remember correctly) results. Have to look it up as I have 500 300gr BB .429 cast slugs with only 44 Special guns now. Don't have the time at the moment.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Ray »

Bullard4075 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 10:34 am
Seems I asked this same question a while back with mixed (if I remember correctly) results. Have to look it up as I have 500 300gr BB .429 cast slugs with only 44 Special guns now. Don't have the time at the moment.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79367&p=901292&sid= ... b5#p901292
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Ray »

The experiment continues.....300 gr. .44s have been scarce but finally found these.....
76142_kindlephoto-706456902.jpg
missouri bullets "hammer" 300 gr.

does not look as if it will fit in the bulldog in special cases o.a.l.wise but in russian cases it'll fit.

Plan to begin with lower volume starting russian loads for the 246 gr. bullet.....by lower volume an example would be 231/hp-38 loads are low volume, trailboss loads are high volume.....you know, how much space it takes up in the case.

keep me (and the bulldog) in your prayers.....
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by mickbr »

very interested to here the result ray 8)
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by TraderVic »

Mic McPherson does list data for 44 Special, 300 gr bullet in his Metallic Cartridge Reloading, 3rd Edition.
10.5 gr (W296 , H4227 , IMR 4227)
5.8 gr IMR800-X
9.0 gr Her2400
7.0 gr Blue Dot
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by mickbr »

does he include velocities tradervic?
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by TraderVic »

Yes he does, just a brain fanny burp on my part :roll:

W296 11.5 gr (774 fps) - 12.5 gr (max, 877 fps)

H4227 11.5 gr (769 fps) - 12.5 gr (max, 852 fps)

IMR4227 11.2 gr (740 fps) - 12.2 gr (max, 812 fps)

IMR800-X 6.5 gr (711 fps) - 7.0 gr (max, 769 fps)

Her2400 9.5 gr (685 fps) - 10.5 gr (max, 763 fps)

Bluetooth 7.5 gr (679 fps) - 8.0 gr ( max, 705 fps)
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Vic, where can I get some of that Bluetooth powder? :lol: :wink:
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

For a defensive load, I have long thought that a 300 grain flatpoint at about 500 fps from a Charter Arms revolver would be the bees knees.....if you could get it to stabilize.

Let's face it, most deadly force confrontations that involve a handgun occur at bad breath distances. For this purpose, a big, slow, flat pointed slug would seem to be ideal. At least that is my theory.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by TraderVic »

I don't know Bill :roll: ........all I can say is I hate spellchecker on my phone. I should know better by now to check my texts/emails every time.

In this case, Bluetooth = Blue Dot :mrgreen:
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by TraderVic »

Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:40 am
For a defensive load, I have long thought that a 300 grain flatpoint at about 500 fps from a Charter Arms revolver would be the bees knees.....if you could get it to stabilize.

Let's face it, most deadly force confrontations that involve a handgun occur at bad breath distances. For this purpose, a big, slow, flat pointed slug would seem to be ideal. At least that is my theory.
Maybe a bit off subject, but a low velocity 22 short (behind the front leg) dispatches skunks and other critters better than anything faster.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

TraderVic wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:08 am
Maybe a bit off subject, but a low velocity 22 short (behind the front leg) dispatches skunks and other critters better than anything faster.
I used to shoot a lot of squirrels. The .22 Short was better for me than a .22 Long Rifle. I don't exactly know why. But often a squirrel shot through the chest with the .22 Long Rifle would hang on and get stuck in the tree. However, the .22 Short would kill them fine and they would drop.

My favorite squirrel rifle was a .32 Thompson Center Cherokee muzzle loader. That soft round ball knocked squirrels out of a tree like nothing else.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Ray »

"All work and no play makes ray a dull boy !" so I am slow in getting this experiment going.
IMG_20211123_003356853~2.jpg
.44 colt cases with missouri bullets 300 gr. "hammer" over four point a bit grains vectan A-1 which is close to 231/HP-38. This load only occupies .5 c.c. and there is an audible granule rattle when shaken.

Going to try an over and under out of a bond 3" then if everything looks and feels kashrut then I'll attempt five out of the bulldog.....
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I'm looking forward to your results. I really love seeing bullets that fill the cylinders!
Last edited by Scott Tschirhart on Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 300 grain in 44 special

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Scott Tschirhart wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:27 am
I'm looking forward to your results.
Me too.

Scott, I've wanted a .32 squirrel rifle for some time now, but can't justify spending what they want for one! I will continue to wait until I find the right deal!
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