For you airgunners

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For you airgunners

Post by GunnyMack »

I found these, Amazon, and after reading reviews I ordered a tin. Made by H&N Sport, Germany..177 weigh 9.57gr and are very accurate! The cross shaped hollow point does what you would expect, it OPENS UP! Just tried the first on a tree rat and WOW ! Through the ribcage, out the off side and the hole was about .25. Im impressed!
20210505_184401.jpg
Barracuda Hunter Extreme. Also made in .22
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by gamekeeper »

I'm running very low on .177, thanks for the heads up, I'll look out for them.... 8)
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Ysabel Kid »

I've seen these advertised at Pyramyd Air. Good to hear a first hand (unbiased) account! :D
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by marlinman93 »

Just bought 5,000 pellets a couple months ago, so I'm good. .177 pellets around 9.5-10 grs. are my favorite weight. Lighter are faster, but heavier group tighter in my airgun.
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Re: For you airgunners

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That's a nice medium heavy weight. What are you shooting them out of? I've not tried them yet, kind of pointless since we aren't allowed to hunt here, but accuracy is where it's at for any shooting game. Sounds like you got the results you were looking for!
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Blaine »

I just bought about 18,000 of the cheap Crosman Domed pellets with the dimple on top. About 2/3s .22, and the rest .177....They shoot as well as I need them to shoot. If I ever decide to get into silhouettes, I'll test others a little mo betta....
The Diana .22 side lever rifle shoots 850ish and the Diana LP8 pistol shoot the .177s about 650ish....
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by GunnyMack »

RWS 350 Magnum. This rifle will easily push light pellets over the speed of sound. I still need to try them out of my RWS Model 45.
The 45 has a much better trigger, usually shoots better than the 350 but these shoot very well! Might get the crony out this weekend and do some fps testing.
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Re: For you airgunners

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I don’t know how important accuracy is to you guys shooting air guns, but I’ve been a life long “accuracy nut” and it carried over into air rifles. I grew up never owning a BB gun, and at the tender age of seventy-one I figured it was now or never. I did a lot of research on air rifles and ended up with a Daystate. At the suggestion of the seller, I ordered a sample pack of pellets from this place..... http://www.straightshooters.com/straigh ... r-.22.html
These sample packs can be had in either 17cal or 22cal. You get twenty-five different pellets in quantities of twenty-five each. They are all selected from the best known pellets for accuracy. Rather than waste a lot of money buying tins of pellets that are “so-so” accuracy wise, you can find out what your gun likes the best. After trying some of each in your gun you’ll know what your gun likes the best. From my personal experience there is a vast difference in accuracy not only by brand, but by weight. It’s just like shooting rimfire rifle, you’ll find out what your gun likes the best. Once you know that, just buy what shoots the best. FWIW, I tried some of the OP’s pellets and they did shoot “pretty good” out of my gun. Written reports stated that they were very good on squirrels. My Daystate ended up liking two different brands of heavy pellets the best. With calm winds and a good rest, it will put five pellets into a .25-.4” group at fifty yards. Enough to keep me happy.
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Re: For you airgunners

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The Daystate is indeed an accurate rifle. The sample packs are a good way to try different pellets to get an idea what your rifle likes. The problem being, over time things change. You may have a bunch of, say JSB Exact pellets and they give you gilded edge accuracy. You run low so you order the same reference and the new ones won't shoot for sour apples. A bit of measuring turns out the the new ones came with a smaller head size than the ones your rifle liked. That's why a lot of us tend to buy pellets by the sleeve, especially if we find a batch that our rifle likes and we can get them from the same lot number. I was given a sleeve of JSB Exact pellets by a fellow out in Arizona who switched over to 22 caliber for his hunting. They were new old stock, but in perfect shape. I hoard those for serious use in my Air Arms ProSport. When there's a competition, those are the ones I break out. Run a hundred through the barrel for practice, zeroing and to "season" the barrel to them again and that's about as good as that rifle shoots. I try newer ones and other brands occasionally, but for now I keep going back to the slowly diminishing stock of the white label JSB's for when it counts.
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Grizz »

this topic sent me off on a tour of daystate products and the various accessories . . . . i'm sticking with my 99 buck springer, and happy hitting the small t.v. dish someone left behind. but love seeing what's going on in the air gun world. Wow.
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Re: For you airgunners

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Grizz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:18 am this topic sent me off on a tour of daystate products and the various accessories . . . . i'm sticking with my 99 buck springer, and happy hitting the small t.v. dish someone left behind. but love seeing what's going on in the air gun world. Wow.
Grizz, one of my good friends (and another geezer) liked my Daystate a lot and decided he too would like an air rifle. After the sticker shock wore off he decided to get something else. He ended up getting a Benjamin Marauder with a few bells and whistles. His gun, like mine, has a Lothar barrel and a regulator. It shoots about 95% as good as mine at less than half the cost. Best of all for him, his gun is made right here in the USA, less than a hundred miles from where we live. The Benjamin Marauder is the number one selling air rifle for a reason.....value for money spent. It’s not as pretty as the high end guns, but it still does yoemen’s work in the accuracy department.
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by 3leggedturtle »

G-M shot alot of the H&N .177 wadcutters in the 70's very accurate and smacked hard, these would give the best of both worlds.
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: For you airgunners

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Grizz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:18 am this topic sent me off on a tour of daystate products and the various accessories . . . . i'm sticking with my 99 buck springer, and happy hitting the small t.v. dish someone left behind. but love seeing what's going on in the air gun world. Wow.
And the cost of the rifle is just the beginning. By the time you've pumped it up a time or two that $60 chinese high pressure pump begins to look uninviting and you start to look at either SCUBA tanks or a compressor. PCP is an expensive game if you go high end. A Benjamin Discovery or Marauder gives a more accessible intro to the game, but there's a reason springers are still produced in large numbers.
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by GunnyMack »

Exactly! Those compressors aren't cheap- thats the reason I haven't invested in a big bore airgun. I'd really like a .30 or .35.
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GunnyMack wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:23 pm Exactly! Those compressors aren't cheap- thats the reason I haven't invested in a big bore airgun. I'd really like a .30 or .35.
Hatsan has a couple of break barrel options...If you can find one
in stock. Probably not as powerful as you were thinking, tho.

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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Blaine »

I have one of these Beeman P1 coming end of May...It was backordered.
.177
Two power levels: 300 and 600....
Kind of spendy, but who wants to die with money in their pocket. :lol:
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Grizz »

THANKS for the encouragement. good to hang around enablers.

of the three calibers, which is the killingist one?

are hard cast pellets available?
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Re: For you airgunners

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Grizz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:44 pm THANKS for the encouragement. good to hang around enablers.

of the three calibers, which is the killingist one?

are hard cast pellets available?
Sort of...There are lightweight alloy pellets that increase velocity, and penetration.
There's some YouTube clips of .177 head shots on small pigs that produce DRT....I think they were using a Gamo @ about 1500 fps...
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Re: For you airgunners

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Grizz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:44 pm THANKS for the encouragement. good to hang around enablers.

of the three calibers, which is the killingist one?

are hard cast pellets available?
What are you wanting to shoot? They make pellet molds for the 22 and 25 calibers, but I'd stay away from hard cast. They'd do much better with a pure lead or lead with a relatively low tin content as far as accuracy goes. There's a fellow out there making swaged slugs for the heavy hitting PCP's. Nielsen (click the name)

As for simple springers or rammers, your regular diabolo style pellets are usually quite serviceable. The Brits hunt with sub 12 fpe (less than 820 fps with an 8.44 grain .177 pellet). Key word SUB. Most of them stay at around 10.5 fpe as if the cops catch you even at 12.001 FPE with whatever pellet fits, you're in a heck of a lot of trouble. For hunting I'd favor the larger calibers for furred game. .177 does great on pest birds like starlings and sparrows. For larger small game (coon, etc) I'd prefer at least a quarter bore.

At the end of the day, it STILL comes down to you being able to place your shot accurately into a tiny kill zone. Caliber doesn't make much difference with a poorly placed shot.
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Re: For you airgunners

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AmBraCol wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:19 pm
Grizz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 8:44 pm THANKS for the encouragement. good to hang around enablers.

of the three calibers, which is the killingist one?

are hard cast pellets available?
What are you wanting to shoot? They make pellet molds for the 22 and 25 calibers, but I'd stay away from hard cast. They'd do much better with a pure lead or lead with a relatively low tin content as far as accuracy goes. There's a fellow out there making swaged slugs for the heavy hitting PCP's. Nielsen (click the name)

As for simple springers or rammers, your regular diabolo style pellets are usually quite serviceable. The Brits hunt with sub 12 fpe (less than 820 fps with an 8.44 grain .177 pellet). Key word SUB. Most of them stay at around 10.5 fpe as if the cops catch you even at 12.001 FPE with whatever pellet fits, you're in a heck of a lot of trouble. For hunting I'd favor the larger calibers for furred game. .177 does great on pest birds like starlings and sparrows. For larger small game (coon, etc) I'd prefer at least a quarter bore.

At the end of the day, it STILL comes down to you being able to place your shot accurately into a tiny kill zone. Caliber doesn't make much difference with a poorly placed shot.
Grizz ain't in Britain :P
And, you should reconsider your thoughts on .177

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Re: For you airgunners

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I've always felt a .20 to be the best of both worlds. Heavier pellets than 177 , flatter shooting than a .22. That being said .20 guns are few, pellet selection is slim. ( or was mostly back when I was really into air gunning)
My RWS guns have never let me down except for when I got a wild hair and made a heavy pellet mold. They were about 20 gr. Hit like a brick until I broke the spring! I called RWS and they said send it in , lifetime warranty. I said naw send me the spring I can do the work. Well I spent a few days trying to figure out how to compress that spring! Finally got it compressed, installed and working. Hint- SEND IT BACK,
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Grizz »

thanks for all the input. i'm surprised, my theory of caliber is to choose one for the extreme case scenario, so the .25 seems good to me. say feral dogs of all sizes, then if i want to shoot a squill, bigger works just fine. shooting deer with 525Gr loads seems extreme until brer bear shows up for lunch

but i'm not pursuing high grade air guns, because if i have to deal with a mad dog i am already geared for that.

it's all theoretical though, because i see no advantage to leaving Beo home and carrying an airgun, although i will carry B and shoot pellets at rocks at the wide spot coffee stop

the whole high tech airgun world is endlessly fascinating, but i'll just enjoy the videos of guys shooting hogs with 50 cal airguns. woohoo and hats off to you guys who are perfecting your's
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Re: For you airgunners

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P.S. watching the hogs falling to bb's [.177], makes me wonder why we don't just hunt with 22lr and call it good. i know it works on deer. and cattle. etc.
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Re: For you airgunners

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Grizz wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:25 am P.S. watching the hogs falling to bb's [.177], makes me wonder why we don't just hunt with 22lr and call it good. i know it works on deer. and cattle. etc.
You should have noticed that all those .177 hard alloy pellets are used for headshots. But, that's ok...it's typical behavior to Poo Poo something one does not understand.
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Re: For you airgunners

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Blaine wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:49 am
Grizz wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:25 am P.S. watching the hogs falling to bb's [.177], makes me wonder why we don't just hunt with 22lr and call it good. i know it works on deer. and cattle. etc.
You should have noticed that all those .177 hard alloy pellets are used for headshots. But, that's ok...it's typical behavior to Poo Poo something one does not understand.
you should have noticed I always make headshots
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Re: For you airgunners

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Grizz wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:22 pm
Blaine wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:49 am
Grizz wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:25 am P.S. watching the hogs falling to bb's [.177], makes me wonder why we don't just hunt with 22lr and call it good. i know it works on deer. and cattle. etc.
You should have noticed that all those .177 hard alloy pellets are used for headshots. But, that's ok...it's typical behavior to Poo Poo something one does not understand.
you should have noticed I always make headshots
I see where you're going. You are the expert on heavy for calibre big bore bullets.
The other side of the same coin are the hard, light for calibre pellets, that will penetrate all out of proportion to their kinetic energy. Another couple examples are the arrows that will out penetrate some bullets with only minimal FPE....same with a straw that gets blown through a 2x4......
Yes...only headshots with ammo like this for medium game.
Bell understood this with his 7mm he used on elephants.
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Re: For you airgunners

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i don't claim to be the expert, but i do claim to have a peculiar evidence based conviction that a freight train will equally kill brer bear and a titmouse, while a small nail could kill a titmouse but not the bear. my weird notion is that collateral damage to the titmouse is less onerous than getting eaten by the bear. that does color my curiosity about killing hogs with beebees.
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Re: For you airgunners

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Grizz wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:50 pm i don't claim to be the expert, but i do claim to have a peculiar evidence based conviction that a freight train will equally kill brer bear and a titmouse, while a small nail could kill a titmouse but not the bear. my weird notion is that collateral damage to the titmouse is less onerous than getting eaten by the bear. that does color my curiosity about killing hogs with beebees.
Drive that nail deep into the brain of a small pig, and get back to me. Desirable? No, but absolutely doable at close range.
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Re: For you airgunners

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Blaine wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:33 pm
Grizz wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:50 pm i don't claim to be the expert, but i do claim to have a peculiar evidence based conviction that a freight train will equally kill brer bear and a titmouse, while a small nail could kill a titmouse but not the bear. my weird notion is that collateral damage to the titmouse is less onerous than getting eaten by the bear. that does color my curiosity about killing hogs with beebees.
Drive that nail deep into the brain of a small pig, and get back to me. Desirable? No, but absolutely doable at close range.
BOWIE is doable at close range. sharp stick is doable at close range. rock is doable at close range.

BUT you left the zone of the proposal, that collateral damage to the titmouse is less onerous than getting eaten by the bear
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Re: For you airgunners

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Fine....Whatever.....
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Re: For you airgunners

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]Dragged out my Caldwell chronograph to test my gun & pellets this morning.
Measured approximately 10'
Beeman Silver Bear , 7.0 gr
983fps

Beeman Crow Magnum, 8.6 gr
897 fps

RWS R10, 8.2 gr
939 fps

H&N Sport, 8.18 gr
952 fps

H&N Crow Magnum, 8.8 gr
897 fps

H&N Baracuda, 9.57 gr
862 fps

At some point I shot my crony screen! Was when I was shooting the H&N Sport pellets, these were always extremely inconsistent in this gun. I should mic these as I suspect they are very undersized. Sadly the screen is now black but this model has the ability to plug into my phone so I'm not dead in the water!
20210509_101546.jpg
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Re: For you airgunners

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GunnyMack wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:37 am ]Dragged out my Caldwell chronograph to test my gun & pellets this morning.
Measured approximately 10'
Beeman Silver Bear , 7.0 gr
983fps

Beeman Crow Magnum, 8.6 gr
897 fps

RWS R10, 8.2 gr
939 fps

H&N Sport, 8.18 gr
952 fps

H&N Crow Magnum, 8.8 gr
897 fps

H&N Baracuda, 9.57 gr
862 fps

At some point I shot my crony screen! Was when I was shooting the H&N Sport pellets, these were always extremely inconsistent in this gun. I should mic these as I suspect they are very undersized. Sadly the screen is now black but this model has the ability to plug into my phone so I'm not dead in the water!
20210509_101546.jpg
Thanks for posting...(What rifle were you shooting?)
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by GunnyMack »

RWS Diana 350 Magnum.
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Re: For you airgunners

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When running my air rifles and pistols over the chronograph I prefer a distance of 6" to 1' from the muzzle. The air from the shot doesn't mess with the chronograph like the blast from a magnum firearm and that keeps the chance of shooting the chronograph to a minimum. Did you shoot for consistency, or just one shot each pellet? My AirArms ProSport will give me standard deviation in the single digits with pellets it likes.
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Re: For you airgunners

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The reason I was 10' was that was where the sunlight was , hopes of getting better readings. I shot a few of each. If I had been closer I might not of had the stray that hit the screen- still scratching my head over that. From sandbags no less!
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Re: For you airgunners

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GunnyMack wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 4:07 pm The reason I was 10' was that was where the sunlight was , hopes of getting better readings. I shot a few of each. If I had been closer I might not of had the stray that hit the screen- still scratching my head over that. From sandbags no less!
I cheat. Picked up the kit form with the infrared lights, you can run it off a pack of AA batteries or from a wall socket if there's one handy to your shooting area. You can shoot in complete darkness using it, or in direct sunlight (although in that case I don't recall using the light). Putting a pellet in the LCD is a real pain. I wonder if they sell replacements to the public or not. Never needed one (yet). The infrared screens are great for putzing around with airguns. If I'm function testing one it's not feasible to pack up and drive the hour to the club paying toll and fuel. So I just hook the thing to an outlet and run a few pellets over it into a carboard box trap I made up.
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CowboyTutt
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by CowboyTutt »

Gunny, I suspect your H&N Sport pellets were going transonic at that velocity and lost stability. Better to keep pellet speeds to 850 fps most of the time to avoid the transonic region. Now a bullet or what the airgun guys call a "slug" might behave completely differently than a pellet, which has really peculiar aerodynamic properties. Pellets use drag at the skirt base for stability, but push them too fast, and they go unstable quickly. This guys video's on AB101 part 10 and 11 are well worth watching and may help you. It may also be barrel twist rate. I only have a 30 cal Hatsan air springer and a tuned Sam Yang 45 PCP that is customized. The Hatsan shoots 50 grain pellets at about 500 fps, so they stay subsonic the whole time, but penetrate due to momentum. The Sam Yang uses real 46 caliber Hollow Point bullets from Mr. Hollowpoint, and fire a 200 grain HP at 800 fps. They seem stable as well but good enough to kill dear. -Tutt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR5j4aZ ... G&index=26

Paul, what are you using for a Chrony then? Interested! -Tutt or Andy
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AmBraCol
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by AmBraCol »

CowboyTutt wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 5:05 pm Gunny, I suspect your H&N Sport pellets were going transonic at that velocity and lost stability. Better to keep pellet speeds to 850 fps most of the time to avoid the transonic region. Now a bullet or what the airgun guys call a "slug" might behave completely differently than a pellet, which has really peculiar aerodynamic properties. Pellets use drag at the skirt base for stability, but push them too fast, and they go unstable quickly. This guys video's on AB101 part 10 and 11 are well worth watching and may help you. It may also be barrel twist rate. I only have a 30 cal Hatsan air springer and a tuned Sam Yang 45 PCP that is customized. The Hatsan shoots 50 grain pellets at about 500 fps, so they stay subsonic the whole time, but penetrate due to momentum. The Sam Yang uses real 46 caliber Hollow Point bullets from Mr. Hollowpoint, and fire a 200 grain HP at 800 fps. They seem stable as well but good enough to kill dear. -Tutt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR5j4aZ ... G&index=26

Paul, what are you using for a Chrony then? Interested! -Tutt or Andy
Andy, I run the Caldwell chronograph. It can be connected to your phone/tablet via an audio cable and the results collected via their app. Makes running a string of shots a snap, as long as you get lined up right over the sensors. I ordered the kit with the infrared screens and a tripod. The tripod is next to worthless, if you want stable you'll want something heavier, but the rest of the kit works great. I send the results to myself via email, import them into a spreadsheet, organize them to taste and voilá, useful data.

This makes comparing pellets in a particular rifle quite easy and can help figure out why a certain pellet isn't giving the accuracy desired. It also helps to check the results of a rebuild, or show why you NEED a rebuild. Last year I picked up a Crosman Optimus in 4.5 mm (.177) and ran the second shot over the chronograph. The first one was a loud BANG and so was the second one. The second shot chronographed over 1400 fps (actully over 1700 IIRC) showing the worst case of dieseling I've experienced so far. So I pulled it apart, cleaned it up, smoothed it up, reassembled and found it had settled down nicely. I did some spring cutting and other tweaks and got it to shooting a nice, smooth ragged edge of 12 FPE for Field Target and sold it to the son of the gun club's president. They are tickled to death with it, although they just plink around their place and shoot the occasional paper target with it. The Caldwell helped me keep track of what was going on over the course of the project.
Paul - in Pereira


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.45colt
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by .45colt »

I have fired over 500 rounds thru My .22cal 350 magnum since February . It has by far exceeded My expectations. With The Crossman plain 14.3 grain it shoots 850fps. It has shot as good as I can hold . I picked up a H&N sampler and now have six weights of H&N from 12.96 to 21.14 gr to try out. If the weather ever settles down I am going to have fun shooting them thru the crony.
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by GunnyMack »

Just don't shoot them THROUGH your chrony ([like I did] :lol:
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.45colt
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by .45colt »

Not to worry Gunny.....I watched as one member of the family drilled His Crony dead center with his .44 mag Blackhawk.....Yikes! about a week later out on the farm one was sighting in his 30-06 that was dead on balls.. :roll: .resting it over the bed of a brand new truck shooting over a long field. At the shot the bullet went through the top side of the bed of the truck..............and then the fun began ! :lol: . You got to pay attention.
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by AmBraCol »

You guys need to step up your airgunning game...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajBT2V4_rrk&t=2s
Paul - in Pereira


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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Blaine »

20mm slug..... 8)
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CowboyTutt
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by CowboyTutt »

I've seen the Extreme Big Bore guns through Robert at Mr. Hollowpoint and I have a fair amount of Robert's bullets in .456. He makes a very fine bullet, I have to say. I had heard of using nitrogen but not helium, that is new to me. My current fill tank can only handle 4000 psi but that is sufficient for my Sam Yang. There is a new company that built their technology on Will Piait's tune at Saddle Mountain Gunsmith that can get me 900-950 fps in my rifle with the same 200 Mr. Hollow Point bullet. I will eventually do that. Curious if the gun could withstand that with nitrogen or helium which would increase the power even more, and I could run an even heavier bullet.

Paul, thanks for the chrono info! I will work on these other things first I think before I change chrono's but its good to know. Too many irons in the fire! Have to prioritize.

-Tutt
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Blaine
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by Blaine »

Anybody shoot the round lead balls in a big bore break barrel...Hatsan has a break barrel in 30 cal that looks interesting. Only shoots about 550 fps, but, a RB is much lighter.
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CowboyTutt
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by CowboyTutt »

Blaine, I have the Hatsan Carnivore in 30 caliber. Fifty grain JSB pellet at 500 fps will penetrate 12 of ballistic gelatin. More speed might be nice, but not necessary. I also doubt the round ball accuracy but it might be ok for 25 yards, I don't know. I have some heavier "slugs" I've been meaning to try through it. -Tutt
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by GunnyMack »

Tutt, do you happen to know hat twist is in that 30 ? As we know to get a round ball to stabilize the twist needs to be fairly slow. It's the one thing the air gun makers don't tell us. I do lik the idea of round balls, they work well.
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by CowboyTutt »

Gunny, according to HatsanUSA directly its 1:450mm which is 17.71 inches. Its pretty fast. Sorry, I had to dig out their email from a while ago. -Tutt
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by GunnyMack »

That seems awful fast to me but what do I know !!?? :D
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Re: For you airgunners

Post by CowboyTutt »

The rifled barrel is actually pretty short, like 9.5 inches. The rest is motor and the sound suppression system. I pulled out my pellets and crunched some numbers using a Miller formula calculator.

Actual barrel twist 1:17.71 (1:450 mm)

JSB 50.15 grain pellet 500 fps
.37 inches long
recommended twist at 500 fps 1:19.4 optimal

Nielsen 65.5 grain slug estimated 450 fps
.41 inches long
1:16.6

Nielsen 54.5 grain slug estimated 480 fps
.35 inches long
1:20

Nielsen 61.5 grain slug estimated 450 fps
.39 inches long
1:17.4

30 cal round ball estimated weight 45 grains (you don't put the bullet weight into any calculator just its length and its density) speed 525 fps estimated
.30 inches diameter/length
1:24

My estimated speeds might be a bit high but won't change the calculation in that range I think.

Pretty sure the 65's will be too long to stabilize but might be OK for less than 25 yards and would hit quite hard.

The 61's might work, twist is very close to optimal. This is using the Don Miller formula which is a slight expansion of the Greenhill Formula. This is just what I happened to find first that didn't require a BC. One of my favorite Greenhill calculators lists numbers in the high 30's of inches of twist, but don't think that is such a good fit here. That is for a rifle. This is not really a rifle but more a revolver in rifle clothing in the Hatsan airgun with its 9.5ish long barrel at very low velocity. I'll update again as I learn more which is ongoing even between my revisions. But I think the twist rate should be viewed from the perspective of being a "revolver", and not a "rifle" given the very short revolver-like barrel length.

You guys got me very curious tonight, thanks! Happy Friday!

-Tutt
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