1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

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Scott Tschirhart
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1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Guys,

I love the smooth way an 1873 works, but I am a bit distrustful of the use of the .357 Magnum cartridge in them.

I know that a lot of them are so chambered, and I know a lot of folks have put a lot of rounds through them (mostly .38 Special I am betting) in cowboy action shooting.

Have any of you shot a significant amount of .357 cartridges in a 1873 levergun? I just wonder how they stand up.

I did some internet research on this issue and I found that it is not an uncommon question. However, there seems to be no concensus on the answer. Most of what I read appeared to be speculation and not based on any experience. Everything from "they would not put .357 on the barrel if it wasn't safe to shoot" to a variety of other answers with no basis in experience.
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ollogger
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by ollogger »

Scott My brother bought a Uberti a few years ago & shoots the heck out of the gun with not a touch of
modest loads, with his hand loads its all the way or nothing, i figure if it holds up for him it has to be a a fact the
73 will hold up to 357 mag. psi




Brad
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Brad,

That's a whole lot better answer than I have seen anywhere online. Thanks!
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Sixgun »

Scott,
Just a hypothesis to which I feel I'm qualified to make.....

Quite sure these guns are tested extensively with full power ammo. The manufacturers also know a high percentage of their guns are shot occasionally and then with light ammo making up the majority of their expenditures......

All leverguns, even the high quality Brownings will eventually "work loose" and develop excessive headspace, but slower than the other brands.

If this is any indication I have multiple pre 1898's, chambered in the low pressure dash calibered rounds with many thousands of round logged out of them, all factory smokeless equivalents or less and they are still tight with their factory set headspace.

Through the years and having discussions with like minded gun cranks, I've learned that normal pressures along with keeping the contact parts clean will leave you with a gun that can be fired until the cows come home. (Believe me, once the cows get past the fence they don't come home)

Rosssi's never should have been made in 454...period......

A somewhat close analogy would be a plus+ rated light frame Smith.....they WILL shoot loose in time with +P ammo...2-4000 rds will loosen them up ...still shootable, but they spit.......I've loosened up several model 27's and 29's with mid range loads...about 5,000 rds did it.

I would consider any levergun chambered for high pressure rounds to be similar.------6
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I think that makes sense. Most of my shooting with my handguns and leverguns are with lighter loads. I don't abuse them.

I've probably put 1500-2000 rounds of .38s through Jim's old 92. But I doubt that I have put 200 rounds of .357 Magnum through it since ive owned it.

My .30-30 has never seen a handload, but I'll never live long enough to put a thousand rounds through it.
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Sixgun »

Right! Common sense rules here..........I personally would not worry about shooting a few thousand rounds of high pressure ammo out of any '73 so chambered......but if I did decide, I'm going to buy a Miroku.....I'm not going to bust down on the the "other" foreign guns anymore as they are a hit or miss as to quality/longevity and I'd bet my life on that. Miroku's are the strongest leverguns ever made and I've never heard of a bad one.

As a kid and before my time it was common practice to rechamber 1892's to .357 Mag. and even then it was recommended to use late model '92's.....I have the books on that recommendation.........and those guys shot em loose. Another common practice was to hot rod the 44-40 in 1892's and they were shot loose too.

I personally have done that with the 44-40 and the 32-20 out of SOLID hardly used 1892's and being more than a casual handloader I had the sense to catch myself and stop before I stretched the gun....with normal loads the gun would shoot and shoot and the brass lasted forever but when I hot rodded the loads the brass would stretch and sometimes leave the forward half of the case stuck in the chamber...... the reason the cases stretch is because the locking bars would compress and the brass went with the extra space the compression created. I guess the steel bounced back, dunno...but I never had any problems with regular loads after that.

Mild or regular loads usually don't create enough bolt thrust that causes the excessive compression. I'm no ballistician so I can't use the proper words but if Jim T reads this thread I'm sure he will agree with me on everything I said.----006
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by JimT »

The 454 is one of the harder ones on guns because it generates such a huge recoil impulse. But all guns have it ... more or less. I agree that generally using factory loads the gun will last forever. But .... We shot a Ruger Single Six .22's loose. No handloads. Just many many thousands of rounds over 30 years. Barrel/cylinder gap opened up .. the gun started spitting .. the cylinder had endshake ... I sent it to Hamilton Bowen and it came back ready for another 30 years of hard use.
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by hfcable »

i have a 24" uberti 1873 in 357 . have had it for years, and no problems with 357 loads, though of course i mostly shoot 38s

that rifle does love the 180 gr offerings and shoots most of them into very small groups at 80-100 yds. wouldnt hesitate to use this on deer, and will if i get the chance here in montana. suppose it would do the job on hogs too.,though i have never really hunted them [ i dont eat pork, so would need someone to take it, if i shot it. ]

i think i have had this rifle, about 30 years , and it is a pleasure to shoot, large enough that recoil even with the 180s seem negligible.
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Thank you, that is exactly the kind of experience that I was looking for.
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by 2ndovc »

This subject has had some great info. I've been wanting a '73 for some time and was really curious about the .357 Magnums in particular. I've sold a couple of ARs that were really just collecting dust, but want to put the $ back into the collection. I've been leaning towards the Winchester/ Miroku because they have a couple of models that I really like. The big question in my mind is if I want another .357 carbine or one chambered in .45 Colt that is the only pistol cal. rifle cartridge that I don't have. I keep coming back to the .357 because I have far more components for that cartridge than the .45, and I've had a couple of .45 Colt rifles that have been real disappointments accuracy wise.

After writing that all out, I think I just answered my own question. :shock:

The chase continues,

jb 8)
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Maybe I will pick up a 1873 Trapper in .357. Thanks for all of your input.
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by 3leggedturtle »

ollogger wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:07 pm Scott My brother bought a Uberti a few years ago & shoots the heck out of the gun with not a touch of
modest loads, with his hand loads its all the way or nothing, i figure if it holds up for him it has to be a a fact the
73 will hold up to 357 mag. psi




Brad
THOUGHT I WAS READING TERRY'S REPLY FOR A MOMENT.... :mrgreen: Real world everyday tester beat any other type. Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
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Re: 1873s and the .357 Magnum cartridge

Post by Griff »

Both of my '73 are in 45 Colt... and I run them with lighter than factory loads... both bullet weight & powder charge. That's not due to any lack of confidence with the rifles, but due to the nature of the shooting I do with them... I don't want a great deal of recoil, just enough for tactile feedback, and to seal the chamber from blowby gases. However, if I was to be running a hunting load of near factory specs, I'd have a lot more confidence in the Rossi 1892 copy I have. 1st, the locking mechanism is definitely stouter. 2nd, the factory length lever stroke is shorter than that of a 1873, except the new Miroku manufactured "Winchester" branded copies. 3rdly... and maybe the most important in my estimation, both the Rossi 1892 and Uberti 1873 is going to need some slicking up of the action to be really comfortable and, IMO, that translates into reliable.

The Uberti 1873 can be VERY OAL sensitive. Mine prefer COAL of 1.578 or less. That's simply the max length that with move up and down in the carrier mortise with no issues. I can run shorter ammo in the 1986 production 1873 than I can in the 2014 production. That's due the length of the ramp on the front of the carrier... since there's nothing that keeps a 2nd cartridge from entering the carrier except the cartridge on it, that ramps allow the carrier to push that 2nd round back into the magazine as you lever the carrier upward. Think of it as an interference fit. The longer the ramp, the more cartridge can be pushed back into the magazine.

Nearly every new 1873 I've seen recently has a truck spring in the place of the trigger block spring. Easily corrected, by replacing it with a lighter weight spring or trimming down the factory one. the same goes for the carrier and lever return springs. If you keep the factory ones, be sure to bevel the edges of the contact point with the frame and lever... as the spring material is much harder than the metal of either the frame or the lever. Grease on those contact points is your friend!

The Rossi 1892 clones can certainly stand some "cleaning" up! Spring wieghts are an issue with them also. The main one, IMO being the ejector spring. Secondly the contact point for the ball and spring for the cartridge stop needs some smoothing out. As do the locking lugs and the bolt. One of their known issues is a propensity to either eject a live cartridge along with the empty, or simply stovepipe the loaded cartridge. This is due to the "snapping" action of the carrier, relieved when you smooth that detent and ball on the left cartridge guide. Just like the Uberti 1873, these are supposedly dual cartridge compatible guns... able to feed and eject .38 Special and .357 Magnum ammo. The ability of do that varies quite a bit from gun to gun. Both have ways to improve that capability. Neither has a method so complex that anyone handy with tools can't perform the needed work. If you can't seem to miss your thumb with a hammer... you might consider having the gun professionally 'smithed.

Detailed instructions for both model guns can be found on Marauder's Rifle Tips.
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