For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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AJMD429
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For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by AJMD429 »

.

This video is a nice little explanation of some of the neurotransmitter modulation of pain - https://youtu.be/R01PRRF3774.

Although it is ostensibly about 'fibromyalgia', it explains why some people with bad disk disease or diabetic neuropathy or other chronically painful conditions may have more pain than others, and how it can be mitigated without necessarily using 'pain meds', or often more realistically, those who need pain meds can get BETTER relief by adding some of the vitamins that are involved in pain transmission and modulation.

There is much more depth to the topic than this video, but it is a good introduction to the concept. Before just taking megadoses of random vitamins though, seeing a physician and getting appropriate testing done to see WHICH vitamins (if any) may be appropriate. For instance, about a third of the population cannot process folic acid properly, and in fact using higher doses in those patients could actually make those patients get WORSE instead of better.

It doesn't really touch on the other aspect of chronic pain, where depression is caused by chronic pain, and the chronic pain is worsened if the patient is depressed, creating a worsening spiral of misery. Fortunately many of the neurotransmitters that are involved with pain signal processing are also involved with depression, so often even in a non-depressed patient, the use of antidepressants can reduce pain.

Hopefully it gives hope for people with pain to hear there is more going on than just having to take 'opioids' or not, and perhaps educating their physicians as well, so they can help the patient look into adjunctive things to do to improve function and reduce pain. Physicians generally aren't trained in 'nutrition' so have to be motivated to read current literature instead of just browsing travel brochures and willing to think outside the box rather than just follow institutional protocols.
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Re: For chronic pain patients

Post by Blaine »

I just had my 5th night's sleep on one of those multilayer memory foam mattresses......I can share with you that I don't wake up feeling like I've been pummeled all night. I'm a side sleeper and my shoulders used to ache horribly in the morning. I don't think my back will heal, but it's surely better in the morning these days.
Let's see if this continues. Wish I'd tried one of these years ago.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by piller »

When I first became a type 1 diabetic at age 52 from a reaction to a medication, I got the foot neuropathy. Once I found a Doctor who didn't just push metformin on everyone, I got on insulin and started taking some vitamins that I researched. My feet have gone from feeling as if there were chunks of concrete under the skin and dead zones in there to having almost normal feeling back. While the nerves were returning, my feet itched like crazy. Before that, there was a lot of pain. I deliberately dropped my A1C from 22+ all the way down to 5.7 for 4 months. The current Doctor tried metformin on me for a month. Just like before, my sugar level jumped up to 175 to 190 all the time. I quit taking metformin and went back to averaging 103 to 110 with no other change. This Doctor has the good sense to let her patients help find what works for them and what gives them the best results. When a patient finds a food or a vitamin which helps them to feel better, as long as it is not causing harm, then the patient should be encouraged. Prescription pills are not the only thing which can help to improve health or to reduce chronic pain.

Pain is not just the sensation from the nerves. It is also the patient's reaction to it, mental state, family or friends reaction to the patient's pain, and even their living conditions. When the social group gives the patient too much sympathy and attention, sime patients want to be in pain for the attention. When the patient is willing to push through pain, it is often lessened by the mental state of refusing to stop. Having something to do, such as taking care of a dog can help. Focusing on something other than the pain helps. Nutrition helps.

A holistic approach may take more thought, but it gives better results.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by Blaine »

For diabetic foot pain, I clench my toes into a "fist" and hold it really hard. Helps a lot. Every morning before putting on socks, a spritz of rubbing alcohol aids circulation.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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A massager with warming mode helps at the end of the day for me. Lidocaine roll on helped. Refusing to quit helped. I also found that Mag-Ox 400 once a day helps.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by Fess »

Blaine wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:53 pm For diabetic foot pain, I clench my toes into a "fist" and hold it really hard. Helps a lot.
When I read this, I immediately remembered Bruce Willis doing this in the movie "Die Hard." Then I thought to myself "but what if I DON'T want to fight off terrorists today?" :D

Something that some people find helpful to deal with knotted back muscles is putting pressure against the area with something like their fist or a tennis ball. If you have ever tried to lie on your back and hold your fist between it and the floor, you may know that after a while, your fist may hurt more than your back. I had the bright idea that the head of my rubber mallet was roughly fist-shaped and could be easily moved to the correct location by the handle. I was kinda proud of myself for figuring out that trick, so I told my doctor. Apparently I did not do such a great job explaining it to the Doc because when I later saw my medical records, he had written "patient uses a rubber mallet on his back???" :o :o
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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Fess wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:40 pmSomething that some people find helpful to deal with knotted back muscles is putting pressure against the area with something like their fist or a tennis ball. If you have ever tried to lie on your back and hold your fist between it and the floor, you may know that after a while, your fist may hurt more than your back. I had the bright idea that the head of my rubber mallet was roughly fist-shaped and could be easily moved to the correct location by the handle. I was kinda proud of myself for figuring out that trick, so I told my doctor. Apparently I did not do such a great job explaining it to the Doc because when I later saw my medical records, he had written "patient uses a rubber mallet on his back???" :o :o
They even make half-sized 'tennis balls' that are used for that kind of pressure-point application. Very useful.

There are times when a physical therapist consult is vital, and well worth the cost, but sometimes a simple trick like you're talking about works, and can save time and money versus going for treatments. Now a good physical or occupational therapist WILL show you stuff like that and not just milk your insurance for the maximum visit-count.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by piller »

The balls for raquetball or handball may work. They are about the right size and are softer than a tennis ball.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by Bill in Oregon »

"Now a good physical or occupational therapist WILL show you stuff like that and not just milk your insurance for the maximum visit-count." Majority of my PT visits have been of the latter stripe. Perhaps one in three physical therapists I have used have given lasting wisdom, but when you have a good one, he or she can be a big help.
My heart is full for all out there dealing chronic pain. Lately it has been the central feature of my days and it is exhausting when weeks and months pass without a break from it. It is also a burden to have to chase clarity.
I have a phone appointment with my primary today to seek an order for yet another lumbar MRI so that I can get a fresh second opinion from another regional neurosurgeon on the L4-5 mess that has me stumbling and trying not to fall over after I have been on my feet for more than a few minutes. Really tired of pain all day, pain all night, pain upon rising. I am on the maximum dose of pregabalin, and looking at prescription lidocaine patches as a possible way out of this box on a temp basis. And my honey has back issues and neuropathy in her toes.
Whining over for now! :lol: :cry:
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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Bill in Oregon wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:10 amReally tired of pain all day, pain all night, pain upon rising. I am on the maximum dose of pregabalin, and looking at prescription lidocaine patches as a possible way out of this box on a temp basis. And my honey has back issues and neuropathy in her toes.
Get your MTHFR gene tested for the 677 and 1298 SNP. I've seen both SNP's exascerbate neuropathic pain ALOT, and fixing the defect with the use of something like MethylGuard Plus (Thorne.com) will in some people really reduce the pain (requires a few months to kick in though). Also keeping vitamin D in the 60-80 range seems to improve muscle pain, but vitamin D should be taken with vitamin K in most people. Also look at fasting insulin levels and free-testosterone and estrogen levels. Those being >12 or so, under 100 or so ('reference' range 50-210 is different than 'ideal' or 'normal' range), or over 120 or so, respectively, can make for less pain tolerance, less muscle strength, more fatigue, and less stamina.
Just thoughts - stuff to check with your doctor about.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Doc, thanks. Copying, pasting and emailing to my internist.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by AJMD429 »

.
More interesting stuff on MTHFR and all its ramnifications to health. Very complex issue for sure.

https://ndupdate.com/mthfr_ben_lynch/
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by GunnyMack »

Umm, let's not forget about chiropractic treatments. Adjustments realign and open the nerve roots. After a T-bone car accident I took a center console in the lower rib cage. I now have a chronic T9 that comes and goes as it wishes. I get adjusted weekly otherwise I'd look like a ? (Tipping right) .
No offense Doc, but most MDs are pill pushing quacks but I respect you, your willingness to try and help us here and the fact that you are open to 'alternative ' medicine just raises our praise of you!
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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.
Yep; Chiropractic and physical therapies are HUGELY useful for those patients who want to really fix musculoskeletal issues.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by Ysabel Kid »

I'm now at three weeks since my orthopedic surgeon ordered up another spinal injection. It has been almost two years since my last one. That one took the longest to take effect, but has lasted the longest. They have rescheduled the procedure twice now since Workers Comp has failed to approve the injection. :evil: :evil: :evil: In fact, after cancelling the injection this week they said they would not reschedule it until WC approved the procedure. Why ANYONE with a single brain cell would support the government getting more involved in the medical industry I do not know. This is my own little preview of Obamacare and it stinks. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Sorry... drifted off topic. I have constant pain; it is just a matter of degree. But I am on the right side of the dirt and so much better off than many. Attitude helps a lot.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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Thanks a bunch Doc.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by Sevastopol »

I no longer define my back/arthritis pain as chronic. I have a lot of good days since getting on 100mg/day of CBD and once in a while my regular medication. The CBD is not under a Dr.'s supervision or direction.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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piller wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:59 am The balls for raquetball or handball may work. They are about the right size and are softer than a tennis ball.
I use a foam roll and a lacrosse ball. Tennis/racquet balls are too soft for me.

I was a wrestler in my youth and foolishly got into powerlifting up to around 30. I now have sciatica and my toes in my right foot are numb about 50% of the time now. I have worked hard to keep my weight and flexibility to what it was when I was 18. Going to the gym for cardio, stretching, and functional strength has kept me mostly pain free now that I am in my mid 60's. I can still tie my shoe standing while balancing on the other foot.

I've toyed with the idea of taking combo pill of L-Arginine/Ornithine prior to working out, but it could take up to 3 months to have any benefit.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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Light workouts, both upper body, and lower back with a 15lb kettle ball help my pain level a great deal. I can do all the work while sitting down watching TV in the evening. I don't overdo it. I have no illusion of a cure, but motion is lotion as they say.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by GunnyMack »

Black cumin seed oil is good for sciatica, I spent almost a year with a chronic nerve, tried the black oil and by gum if it didn't work... only downside is you ARE going to burp it or have heart burn! :D
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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I have had heartburn since I was born. Wouldn't know what it is like to be without it.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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Some of the oldtimers in this forum (actually, the old forum) remember when I initially herniated my L4/L5/S1 discs back in January of 2004, and the subsequent 4 back surgeries and PT that followed during a period of several years afterwards. I improved from total invalid, to a walker, to a cane, and now relatively back to "normal" using a walking stick on longer walks, with "normal" pain hovering at around level 5. I've gotten used to it. What brings me any real relief is swimming in the ocean which takes the weight off my spine. I like to believe the seawater also draws out toxins from my skin. I certainly free much refreshed when exiting the water. I also have been sleeping in a hammock the past 10 years, the curve in the spine releasing pressure. Epidural injections in the spinal cord brought relief for about a month, but these steroid injections are limited to 3 times a year, so that was just a band aid. This month I am scheduled for to sessions of Radio Frequency Ablation therapy about two weeks apart. I know this too is only temporary but can last up to a year from what I hear. I know some who have this therapy performed on them annually for the foreseeable future. I can live with that if it keeps my pain at bay. The prerequisite nerve blocks were great at pain relief even though short lived. I take anti-inflammatories as needed, and avoid opiates like the plague. Anyone else here ever had RFA performed on them? How was it for you, pain-relief wise?
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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Sorry Ji, but I don't know about RFA. Hope it helps.
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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piller wrote: Sat Nov 05, 2022 8:54 pm Sorry Ji, but I don't know about RFA. Hope it helps.
Here's a quicky explanation of the procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xPKpi0ILJw
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

Post by GunnyMack »

Kinda OT but as I sat in my ground blind yesterday I got a text from a woman that took one of my puppies 8 years ago. The pup developed diabetes, which my Winnie, this pups mom has also developed diabetes. Anyhow as we texted back and forth she related she found a FB page for diabetic dogs. People have been giving their diabetic dogs a methyguard plus B12 for neuropathy, she says it made a huge difference in Cooper.
Oh and she wants another pup from my next litter ( hopefully this spring!)
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Re: For patients who live with 'chronic pain'

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For anyone whose lived with pain for many decades knows, you are never really comfortable. And a day where it's moderate is actually a great day. I've got injuries that go back to when I was just 21 years old, and pain becomes something I've just learned to live with, and don't take anything for except on the days when I really aggravate the old injuries and I need something to get through the next day, or sleep at night. I've never taken anything that wasn't over the counter as I was always afraid of side effects.
After over 50 yrs. dealing with the same old injuries it's just part of me, and I don't even think about it on days when it's low level.
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