.22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

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Scott Tschirhart
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.22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

When I was a kid, it seems like .22 Short was much more commonly used than it is today. It was somewhat cheaper than .22 Long Rifle, by a few cents.

We actually preferred the .22 Short hollow point (in those yellow Winchester boxes of course) for shooting rabbits and squirrels. A .22 Long Rifle might leave a squirrel in the tree, dead, but clingin to a branch. However, the .22 Short seemed to knock them out of the tree. Both would kill and we did not see any advantage to the .22 Long Rifle.

Today, we see a lot of semi-auto guns that need the .22 Long Rifle to function and that is probably what makes the .22 Long Rifle cheaper than the .22 Short these days.

Anyone else miss the lowly .22 Short?
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by 3leggedturtle »

Nope, but I miss the CCI CB Shorts when they were about $4 per 100.Tho I almost bought a 10" Contender barrel chambered fir 22 shorts only, afew years ago.
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by JimT »

I have a small stash of them that my Dad put back years ago. The .22 Single Six that he rebarreled was pretty accurate with Shorts. He shot a lot of them in those days (the 1960's and 70's). I watched him put 8 out 10 shots (using Shorts) on the end of a beer can at 80 yards. I never used them for hunting, preferring flat-nosed Long Rifles for the Jack Rabbits we were shooting.

What I never really cared for were Longs. They did not seem accurate to me.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

JimT wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:55 am
What I never really cared for were Longs. They did not seem accurate to me.
Agreed. I never had any luck with the .22 Long.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by marlinman93 »

I have a couple antique single shot rifles chambered in .22 Short, so I am always watching out for any .22 Short good ammo. I don't buy it to collect, so I only buy good quality modern ammo. But in recent years it's become much tougher to find.
Both of my rifles are full sized adult rifles, and not small boy's rifles, or plinking rifles. They shoot good .22 Shorts extremely accurately, and as good as any of my rifles in .22 LR chamberings. I love the report of the diminutive little shorts, as even with no ear protection they aren't as loud as my pellet rifle is.
I have a pretty good supply of Shorts, and considering how much I shoot my two rifles in this caliber they should last me a good length of time. Hopefully when things return to normal more will show up for sale.
This is my Zettler Bros. Ballard #6 Schuetzen in .22 Short with a Zettler Bros. rifled barrel. Almost a waste to use a heavy forged action like the #6 on a .22 Short, but I'm sure back in the time it was built these weren't as expensive or rare as they are these days.

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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by piller »

The .22 Short has probably accounted for more small game than most folks could believe. Being accurate and quiet, it was great to stop rabbits and squirrels from raiding the garden. Vegetable gardens used to be a bunch more popular than they are now.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by JimT »

piller wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:42 am
Vegetable gardens used to be a bunch more popular than they are now.
They are returning among those who are wary of the future and have the space to do it. A .22 and a 20 ga. guards ours.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I used shorts in my Winchester Model 1890, which also took longs and long rifles. Even the longs were a little cheaper than long rifles. Remember the hardware store guy selling individual rounds out of the box? Ours did -- and to 12-year-olds like me.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by earlmck »

My hardware store (Central Commercial in Kingman, Arizona) sold shorts for $0.45, longs for $0.50, and long rifles for $0.55. When I came up with 4 bits I could get a box of shorts and have enough change for a pepsi-cola in the grocery area of the store. Shorts did everything I needed from my trusty 22: a 50-yard shot was a loong shot back in those days and I didn't risk ammo on 100 yard shots. I can't remember when I started using long-rifles, but would not have been until the ammo companies started putting them out in bulk packs and selling them cheaper than shorts (which has been a long time I know).
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by 765x53 »

At the A&P, shorts were two boxes for a quarter while Long Rifles were 15 cents a box.

That is why most old Stevens Favorites have eroded chambers and won't extract long cases.

Yes, they were sold at the grocery store because they were the first ingredient in many recipes.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

There was a liquor store in Castroville in those days, right on Highway 90. I never bought any liquor there (I was too young anyway), but they always had lots of ammo. I would have a .22 rifle strapped to my bicycle and I would park the bike outside to go in ang buy a box of .22 Shorts. Never worried about anyone stealing the bike or the rifle. I wish we could go back to that kind of thing.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by gamekeeper »

My Winchester 9422 was proofed in Germany and for some reason the S for shorts has been crossed out leaving just the LR & L stamped on the barrel, however it shoots .22 shorts with no problems. You sure can get a lot of them in a tubular magazine... :lol:
In the UK it was tradition to shoot Rooks when the young (branchers) were leaving the nest, a large Rookery required at least a couple of boxes of shorts and my Erma Leveraction used to get quite warm. I guess the little .22 short took over from the old Rook rifles of old.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Beaker »

Here is the long and short of it IMHO: First, yes I love semi auto .22's, but all I that I have now are limited or designed to function .22 long rifle hi velocity rounds only. Second, My lever action repeaters and single shots are much more versatile though. They can handle everything from .22 shorts to .22 long rifle, from sub sonic to "hyper" sonic rounds and most all bullet shapes from round nose to hollow points to truncated cone, etc. to even the occasional bird shot round. Overall, I find the utility and versatility a welcome advantage of being able to use about any .22 round as the situation may warrant.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I think I would like to find a nice gallery gun (Winchester or Remington) chambered for .22 Short
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by JOG »

I recently finished off my stash off 22 shorts. I'll buy them anytime I see them. They don't tick my nearest neighbors off to much when shooing my single six of Winchester 9422. I still use hearing protection when shooting anything. I have that ringing in my ears 24|7. Dam tinnitus will drive you crazy!
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by AJMD429 »

I was under the impression that a ‘22 Long’ was simply the same ballistics as a ‘22 Short’ only in a longer case, and at a 22 ‘Long Rifle’ was higher velocity. Is that correct?
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Bridger »

The 22 long is a LR charge and case under a lighter 22 short bullet.
I think, anyway.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by AmBraCol »

AJMD429 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:25 pm
I was under the impression that a ‘22 Long’ was simply the same ballistics as a ‘22 Short’ only in a longer case, and at a 22 ‘Long Rifle’ was higher velocity. Is that correct?
The 22 Long was a 22 Short bullet loaded in a 22 Long Rifle case. I'm not sure about the charge, but they were hotter than the shorts. My dad had an old Marlin 25 (Glenfield, actually) that shot the Longs quite well. I'm not sure why, but he had quite a few with us way back when.

A lot of folks believe that the 22 LR in the modern hyper-velocity guise are the only thing to use in the rimfire world, but 22 Shorts shouldn't be discounted as they can be quite effective in the right application. I'd love to get my hands on one of the old 22 Short target pistols, made by Walther, IIRC (and probably others as well). I had a H&R Young American through which I shot shorts. A long would chamber, but there's no way I'd pull the trigger on it loaded with longs, the cylinder walls were way too thin for my level of comfort. It was a gift from a friend who took it in trade back in the day and was terrible rusty and corroded, but cleaned up quite well. It rode in my pocket quite a bit and was reasonably accurate all things considered.

The 22 Colibri (Humming bird is what that word means) is an even lighter load than the short. Out of a carbine barrel all you'll hear is the click of the striker/hammer and the whack of the bullet striking the target. In too long of a barrel they might get stuck and IIRC are labeled as for use only with handguns. They do fine in our cut down Winchester 67 though and have enough punch for certain pests. Haven't shot them much out of a handgun though.

My uncles used to clean the theater in Globe, AZ. As they swept up popcorn and mopped up spilled drinks they also found spare change, which they'd then exchange for 22 ammo - mostly shorts. This they shot out of the old family Winchester 67 youth model (factory short barrel) and developed good marksmanship skills thereby. I believe that was the first rifle my dad ever shot, probably with 22 Short ammo.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by piller »

The .22 Colibri in a Cricket brand single shot is what I taught my Son with. Click, ping. When he graduated to a Ruger 10/22 it got passed on to some other kids. I currently use the Super Colibri in my Henry .22 lever action for pest work. With 4 Irish Terrier-ists outdoors all day, any pests are night time only now.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by marlinman93 »

The first Colibri I fired I had to check the bore to make sure the bullet exited the barrel! The report sounded like a dud in my rifles. Took quite a few checks after firing before I finally decided they were OK, and not stuck in the bore!
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by coyote nose »

I miss the 22 Longs! In my Remington 512X the CCI Longs were deadly accurate for a 22: 5 shots under 3/4" at 50 yards average group size. Amazingly, the Remington branded 22 Longs made the rifle look like a shotgun! Groups averaged close to 5 inches. Never could figure out why. Moot point now. No one makes them anymore.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by gamekeeper »

marlinman93 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:40 pm
The first Colibri I fired I had to check the bore to make sure the bullet exited the barrel! The report sounded like a dud in my rifles. Took quite a few checks after firing before I finally decided they were OK, and not stuck in the bore!
I can't find any Colibri over here but two days ago I had a CB long bullet stuck in the bore, I was shooting up the last ones I had now that I use CCI quiet segmented.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by AJMD429 »

AJMD429 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:25 pm
I was under the impression that a ‘22 Long’ was simply the same ballistics as a ‘22 Short’ only in a longer case, and at a 22 ‘Long Rifle’ was higher velocity. Is that correct?
No, you idiot; you are so stupid...!!! :roll: :roll:

Here’s the real deal:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/22_rimfire_cartridges.htm

All .22 rimfires (except the WRF and WMR) are ancient black powder designs and use tapered heel bullets. If you examine a .22 S, L, or LR cartridge, you will see that the case and bullet are the same diameter. The part of the bullet inside of the case (the heel) is reduced in diameter to allow it to fit inside of the case. In all other modern cartridges the bullet shank is of constant diameter and the case is slightly larger than the bullet to allow the heel of the latter to fit inside. The modern design gives the bullet a longer bearing surface and forms a better gas seal on its trip down the barrel.

The rimfire principle was used to create the first successful self-contained metallic ammunition. Rimfire cases are constructed with the priming compound spun inside the rim of the case, which is crushed by the blow of the firing pin to ignite the main powder charge. This means that the rim of the case must be far weaker than the solid rim of later centerfire cartridges and is the primary factor limiting the pressure to which any rimfire cartridge can be loaded without erratic ignition or blown cases. As a practical matter, rimfire cases are not reloadable.

The standard .22 rimfire cartridges are the .22 BB, .22 CB, .22 Short, .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle (LR). Although the cases differ in length, all can be fired in a LR chamber. Rifles and pistols for all of these cartridges have an actual bore diameter of about .218 inch. The groove diameter (and the bullet diameter) is about .222 inch. The BB (round ball) and CB (30 grain conical ball) are shooting gallery ammunition, rarely encountered otherwise.

The recoil of all of these .22 rimfire cartridges is essentially negligible. This makes a .22 LR rifle or pistol the natural first gun for a beginning shooter. But, because of its broad application and the many fine firearms available in .22 LR, .22's are also widely used by the most experienced shooters.

.22 Short

The common .22 rimfire Short cartridge dates from the period of the American Civil War. It was first used in a S&W pocket pistol introduced in 1857 and it is the oldest cartridge still being loaded today. The .22 Short is used mainly as an inexpensive, quiet round for practice by the recreational shooter. It is also used in pocket pistols and mini-revolvers, as well as in international and Olympic rapid-fire pistol competition. The Short is available in target, standard velocity and high velocity versions. There is also a .22 short blank for use in starting pistols.

Bullets are lead (usually coated with grease or wax or copper plated), in round nose or hollow point styles. The standard velocity .22 short launches a 29 grain bullet at 1,045 fps with 70 ft. lbs. of energy from a 22" rifle barrel. As a hunting round, the high velocity hollow point Short is useful only for tiny pests like mice, rats and small birds. Stick with the Long Rifle cartridge for small game hunting.

.22 Long

The .22 Long was developed around 1871 to increase the power of the .22 Short by increasing the powder capacity. It is becoming obsolete; it is no longer manufactured by Federal, Remington, or Winchester. It uses the same case as the Long Rifle and the same 29 grain bullet as the .22 Short. This has proved to be a bad combination, inherently less accurate than either the Short or Long Rifle. I am convinced that the .22 Long has survived for as long as it has because young or uninformed shooters think that it must be a hot number, given its light .22 short bullet in front of what they presume to be a .22 LR powder charge. I know that my father believed this when he was a boy. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

The .22 Long comes in standard velocity and high velocity versions. The latter launches a 29 grain copper plated lead bullet at a velocity of 1,240 fps with 99 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle of a 22" barrel. This is 145 fps faster than the Short launches the same bullet, but 15 fps slower than the Long Rifle high velocity load fires its heavier 40 grain bullet.

There are better .22's than the Long for any purpose. Certainly, the more accurate and more powerful Long Rifle should always be chosen over the Long for small game hunting.

.22 Long Rifle

The .22 Long Rifle is an old cartridge developed by Peters Cartridge in 1887. It first appeared in Marlin and Stevens single shot rifles; the Marlin Model 1891 lever action, the predecessor of today's Model 39A, rifle was the first repeater chambered for the cartridge. It was quickly adopted by other rifle makers and also adapted to handguns. It is by far the most popular and useful of all the .22 rimfire cartridges.

The .22 LR is the world's best selling rifle and pistol cartridge. It is available in target, standard velocity, high velocity and hyper velocity loads, with either 40 grain solid lead or 32-40 grain lead hollow-point bullets. Practically every type of rifle and handgun is offered in .22 LR and there have even been smooth bore .22 LR shotguns chambered for the rather obscure .22 LR shot cartridge.

The .22 LR shot cartridge is loaded with a tiny amount of #12 shot. This shot cartridge has negligible killing power, except at very close range, when fired in a rifle barrel. I have read that it is used to collect mice, shrews, hummingbirds and other tiny species for museum specimens at short range (within 15 yards) when fired from smooth bore barrels. One correspondent informed me that he used smooth bore .22's and shot cartridges to shoot mice and pigeons inside a 16 foot diameter steel grain bin without damage to the bin. (Of course, my pet cat is also deadly within an eight foot radius of a mouse or pigeon.)

The target version of the Long Rifle cartridge is extremely accurate and is the basis for small bore competition from the local club level to the Olympic Games. Target bullets are usually coated with grease or wax and should be handled carefully to avoid contamination. Specialized rifle and pistol target loads are available. These 40 grain lead RN bullets are loaded to a velocity just below the speed of sound, to minimize velocity loss and thus wind drift.

The standard velocity .22 Long Rifle takes a wax coated 40 grain RN lead bullet to a muzzle velocity of 1,138 fps. The muzzle energy is 116 ft. lbs. in a standard 22" rifle test barrel. The 40 grain .22 LR bullet has a sectional density (SD) of .216. This is a widely used and economical practice load, excellent for plinking.

High velocity LR cartridges are loaded with copper plated bullets to reduce lead fouling. These come in 40 grain round nose or 36-40 grain hollow point (HP) styles. For small game hunting the expanding hollow point bullet is a more reliable stopper than the solid lead bullet, particularly when body shots are necessary.

The High Velocity cartridge with a 40 grain bullet has an advertised muzzle velocity (MV) of 1255 fps and muzzle energy (ME) of 140 ft. lbs. At 100 yards the numbers are 1017 fps and 92 ft. lbs. The mid-range trajectory of that load is 3.6" over 100 yards. These are Winchester Super-X figures developed in a 6" pistol barrel.

The LR High Velocity HP cartridge is the queen of small game hunting loads. The MV of Winchester's Super-X load with a 37 grain hollow point bullet is 1,280 fps from a 22" test barrel with ME of 135 ft. lbs. The figures at 100 yards are 1015 fps and 85 ft. lbs. The mid-range trajectory of this load is 3.5" over 100 yards.

Zero a scoped .22 rifle using this load to hit 1.4" high at 50 yards and the bullet will not deviate more than 1.5" above or below the line of sight from the muzzle out to about 90 yards. This usefully flat trajectory allows humane head shots on squirrels and rabbits at the ranges at which they are usually hunted. CCI Mini-Mag, Federal Classic, Remington Golden Bullet and Winchester Super-X are all excellent brands of .22 LR hollow point hunting ammunition.

The latest development in Long Rifle hunting ammunition is the hyper-velocity load. Typical of these are the CCI Stinger and Remington Yellow Jacket. Hyper-velocity .22's achieve higher speeds than previous high velocity ammunition at permissible pressure by using light, copper plated, hollow point bullets of about 30-33 grains in front of an increased charge of slightly slower burning powder. This allows a muzzle velocity of about 1,500 fps and a muzzle energy of about 165 ft. lbs. The light bullet sheds velocity and energy quickly, however. At 100 yards the energy has fallen to 85 ft. lbs., about the same as a high velocity HP bullet.

These hyper-velocity .22 LR cartridges are the best choice for a .22 pistol used for personal defence. From the muzzle of a handgun their velocity is about 1260 fps and their energy is about 115 ft. lbs. The Stinger and Yellow Jacket have achieved a one shot stop rate of about 33-34% according to Marshall and Sanow.

Whenever best accuracy is important, test any .22 LR firearm with a variety of ammunition to determine that particular gun's preferences. The accuracy of different loads can vary widely in the same gun. .22 Long Rifle high velocity and hyper velocity hollow point ammunition allows humane hunting of game up to about 7 pounds in weight at .22 ranges with solid hits in the heart/lung area.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Sixgun »

High velocity shorts are no quieter than a long rifle.....they break the sound barrier in a rifle.

I can load up the 1890 with like ...close to a half box of shorts. ..22 I think it'll take.

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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by AJMD429 »

Sixgun, I love those old ammo-boxes; reminds me of when I was in grade school and would walk from school to where my mom worked, and accidentally meander to the gun shop to gawk.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

The old yellow and red Winchester boxes really take me back......to a good place.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Sixgun »

AJMD429 wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:07 am
Sixgun, I love those old ammo-boxes; reminds me of when I was in grade school and would walk from school to where my mom worked, and accidentally meander to the gun shop to gawk.
Got a few over the years...bottom row of shotgun papers are 3 deep. Been collecting this stuff since '72. from 410 to 10 gauge. Many boxes are original BP. On the bottom row in the middle is a box of all brass 12 ga. 00 Buck from WW2. Blow it up and you will see written "For small game hunting" . This was done to beat the Geneva convention. The "Small Game" was japs in the South Pacific.

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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

That looks like Terry Murbach's basement in Rapid City, SD!
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by 6pt-sika »

I’ve got a Winchester 1890 pump that’s 22 Short only . My maternal grandfather and his older brother bought it new in the late 20’s . When I graduated high school he came up to me one day and said for your graduation present you can have your choice of a nice crisp $100 bill or his little 1890 . You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to surmise which I chose . My grandfathers brother was killed not to many years after they got the gun . He was shot in the head by one of their cousins supposedly by accident . My grandfather also told me , when he and my grandmother were first married that little rifle kept them in meat . Each afternoon he’d go out and kill two squirrels for their dinner . Now I’m sure it wasn’t every day but I suspect it was four or more times a week .
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by AJMD429 »

...Blow it up and you will see written "For small game hunting" . This was done to beat the Geneva convention. The "Small Game" was japs in the South Pacific....

Truth and humor and history there, all rolled into one... 8)

6pt-sika.....

You have to wonder when they give you a choice like that of $100 bill versus the gun, about what’s going on in their head and what they were hoping you would do or choose....

I’m guessing your choice was probably the one that pleased them... 8)
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6pt-sika
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by 6pt-sika »

AJMD429 wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:13 pm

6pt-sika.....

You have to wonder when they give you a choice like that of $100 bill versus the gun, about what’s going on in their head and what they were hoping you would do or choose....

I’m guessing your choice was probably the one that pleased them... 8)
My grandfather owned that little rifle about 40-45 years and this year makes 42 years for me .
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Sixgun »

More for "small game hunting". :D. The box on the left is WW2 issue, made by Winchester, 00 buck shot and the cases are full length brass.....after all these years they are still bright.

The box of Remington's, on the right is pre-war, also 00 buck shot but the cases are "high brass" and cardboard, the same brass length as we know it today. This ammo was originally issued to the Marines, probably in Guadalcanal and soon was scorned by the Marines as the cardboard cases would expand in the high humidity, locking up their Model 12's and other shotguns, hence the change to the above "all brass cases".

The stories I read showed the Marines loved the 00 buckshot for shooting japs in the jungle.....one guy wrote, "we loved the model 12 and the all brass 00 buck, it would take a japs head clean off." -------006

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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by piller »

People now have the luxury of not having to fight a war. It is all volunteer now. Calling them Japs and telling how it would take their head off seems so alien to the wimps of today. While World War II was going on, it was kill or die. It sounds to me like those Marines back then were the type we still need. Sadly, there are fewer of the old breed all the time. Not wanting to kill, but not hesitating to do it anyway because of necessity was the way they were. Good men who did their duty.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by AmBraCol »

"Wetproof" is one thing in the contiguous US States, and another in the humid jungles of the tropics. I remember the problems we had with "wetproof" paper shells back in the day. They were bad enough in a singleshot, can't imagine the headaches in a repeater. We never had an issue with the full brass shells, even when loaded past factory specs.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by piller »

Out in the semi-desert where I grew up, I saw paper 12 gauge shells used that were 30 years old or more that functioned in Browning Auto 5 guns without a bit of trouble. Dry conditions with a lot of sand have their own unique set of problems, but paper shotgun cartridges swelling from the damp air was not one of them.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:45 pm
More for "small game hunting". :D. The box on the left is WW2 issue, made by Winchester, 00 buck shot and the cases are full length brass.....after all these years they are still bright.

The box of Remington's, on the right is pre-war, also 00 buck shot but the cases are "high brass" and cardboard, the same brass length as we know it today. This ammo was originally issued to the Marines, probably in Guadalcanal and soon was scorned by the Marines as the cardboard cases would expand in the high humidity, locking up their Model 12's and other shotguns, hence the change to the above "all brass cases".

The stories I read showed the Marines loved the 00 buckshot for shooting japs in the jungle.....one guy wrote, "we loved the model 12 and the all brass 00 buck, it would take a japs head clean off." -------006

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You wouldn’t happen to have any circa 1890-1920 8 gauge factory buckshot loads ? Seems in that time you could custom order lots of things from REM or WIN !
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Sixgun »

6 Point.....nope, only a few singles, I think 3....Geeze, you'd need a wooden crate for 25 of those babies. :D ---6
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by piller »

Those old boxes are really cool.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by Sixgun »

piller wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:06 pm
Those old baoxes are really cool.
Thanks Piller......they are a real piece of history......the scary thing is that when I was a youngster, it was mostly what was on the shelves.......the real old stuff was usually behind the newer stuff and the Good Lord gave me an eye for that. I used to ask every gunshop I was in, "you have any old ammo laying around?"......they were more than happy to accommodate me saying, "no one wants this old stuff anymore.......Six
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:11 pm
6 Point.....nope, only a few singles, I think 3....Geeze, you'd need a wooden crate for 25 of those babies. :D ---6
About 21 of the 8 gauge 3 1/4” loads fit in a box for 10 gauge 3 1/2” shells !
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by coyote nose »

AJMD429 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:01 pm
AJMD429 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:25 pm
I was under the impression that a ‘22 Long’ was simply the same ballistics as a ‘22 Short’ only in a longer case, and at a 22 ‘Long Rifle’ was higher velocity. Is that correct?
No, you idiot; you are so stupid...!!! :roll: :roll:

Here’s the real deal:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/22_rimfire_cartridges.htm


.22 Long

The .22 Long was developed around 1871 to increase the power of the .22 Short by increasing the powder capacity. It is becoming obsolete; it is no longer manufactured by Federal, Remington, or Winchester. It uses the same case as the Long Rifle and the same 29 grain bullet as the .22 Short. This has proved to be a bad combination, inherently less accurate than either the Short or Long Rifle. I am convinced that the .22 Long has survived for as long as it has because young or uninformed shooters think that it must be a hot number, given its light .22 short bullet in front of what they presume to be a .22 LR powder charge. I know that my father believed this when he was a boy. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

The .22 Long comes in standard velocity and high velocity versions. The latter launches a 29 grain copper plated lead bullet at a velocity of 1,240 fps with 99 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle of a 22" barrel. This is 145 fps faster than the Short launches the same bullet, but 15 fps slower than the Long Rifle high velocity load fires its heavier 40 grain bullet.

There are better .22's than the Long for any purpose. Certainly, the more accurate and more powerful Long Rifle should always be chosen over the Long for small game hunting.
Well its not the real deal, chuckhawks is wrong. I wonder if he is doing what almost all gunwriters have done regarding the 22 long....just repeating what he heard or read. I wonder if he actually TESTED 22 longs? I have. Yes the Remington Longs have almost always disappointed me, but the old CCI were the 2nd most accurate rounds in my Remington 512X (first place went to the now discontinued Winchester Super Silhouette LR round). And I probably bench tested 50+ different makes/styles of 22s in that rifle. They also shot well in my Savage 23A, my Winchester 1890s and 1906s, various Stevens favorites, and the makes and model of too many 22 rifles that have passed through my hands.
Also the old statement of "the more accurate and powerful LR should always be chosen over the Long". What? What if I don't want 'more power'? Shouldn't, with that logic, the 22 Magnum always be chosen over the 22 LR then? Of course not. I sometimes squirrel hunt small tracts of woods. I limit myself to ground shots or shots where the main tree trunk is behind the squirrel, for safety reasons. Even with this, I prefer to hunt these small tracts with the lighter 22 short or 22 Long bullet. Heavier is NOT always better. And with the old CCI standard velocity long outshooting most 22 shorts I have tested, the 22 long has been my staple 22 squirrel load for over 4 decades now. I guess I must be as he states "young and uninformed"! I certainly wish the former was true!!!
The problem with this type of reporting without testing is that it has caused 2 or so generations of shooters to ignore the 22 long to the point that manufacturers now no longer make it. It is just about impossible to find. I stocked up awhile ago on the old CCI and probably have enough to last the rest of my hunting life but it is still a shame no one bothers to actually test the stuff.
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gamekeeper
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by gamekeeper »

coyote nose, I have never seen .22 longs for sale on my side of the pond except for CCI CB longs, which I haven't found to be very accurate in my .22s. I agree totally with you on not always requiring more power, I too restrict my shots at Squirrels to ground or tree trunk shots, a high velocity 40g bullet can travel a long way.
.22 longs sound like a very worthwhile round for Squirrels, pity I can't even try them. :( The CCI .22 quiet segmented are what I have just started to use but do not have much experience with them yet to comment.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by piller »

The Aquilla Colibri rounds will kill a squirrel at short range. Nuisance wild animals are not necessarily allowed to continue with their damages around here.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by AJMD429 »

Thanks for the REAL ‘real-deal’ coyote nose...!

I’ve done only very limited testing - plus I didn’t have a chronograph back in those days.

As far as “22 Long” availability, do you think that the plethora of CCI offerings these days would include an equivalent...?

“14 New rim fire loads for 2020”... https://www.cci-ammunition.com/news/new ... loads.html

I’ve seen a bunch of ‘CCI Quiet’ and similarly-named ones, and shot some of them, although not through a chronograph.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by jeepnik »

.22 short will kill a coyote at very close range. I have killed 8 or 10 so far. But the darned things seem to breed faster than I can kill them.
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Re: .22 Short v. .22 Long Rifle

Post by octagon »

I've got an old red/white box of remington 22 short "high speed" ammo marked .63 cents. It is almost full.
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