One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

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AJMD429
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One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by AJMD429 »

This article has some interesting commentary on the cartridge and ammo selection

https://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/self-d ... t-options/
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Tycer »

9 - Federal 9BPLE
380 - Precision One SD 90 XTP
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38 - Speer LE 135 GDHP +P
22 lr - CCI 40 segmented subsonic
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by piller »

Pretty good article, Doc. Seems based in real world experience and thought.

Because of the warmer weather here versus more Northern Latitudes, we might not always be able to conceal larger calibers when dressed for the weather. 9mm in a reasonably small pistol, or .380 in a tiny pistol are pretty common when Tshirt and shorts or jeans are the standard clothing. No big deal. One thing holds true no matter where you live. Get good quality ammunition which performs well out of your gun if you can. Right not, that might not be possible if you did not already have it.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Grizz »

and test the ammo! i've tested 380 hollow point ammo that disassembled itself in a jug of water, and 380 fmj ammo that penetrates to the exact spot as my 9mm GD carry round.

I know some folks don't like water jug tests, or don't understand them, but i've tested bullets in water for a long long time, i get useful data.

test in wet newspaper. or test in calibrated ordinance gel, whatever, just know what to expect when the metal hits the pedaler
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Blaine »

There are good arguments for both the One Hole and Two Hole wound.
The only "test" I ever did was with 45acp 230 gr Hydra Shok and 230 gr FMJ.....the Hydra Shok stopped in the middle of a dry phone book, and the FMJ blasted a rather large hole out the back and buried itself in a few inches of dirt.
Make of that what you will.
If I start to carry my .45 acp's I'd prolly go to a lighter JHP so I wouldn't shoot thru the bad guy and hit a good guy.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by piller »

Absolutely! Never trust your life to a gun and ammunition that you have not tested. Well, you can if you do not value your life.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Sixgun »

Civilian people for everyday carry......K.I.S.S.....(keep it simple stupid)

For most men...45 a.c.p. 230 hardball or 38 Spl with 200 gr. at 625 f.p.s. or 9mm hardball

For most women and men without testicles....38 Spl 200 gr at 625 f.p.s. or 9mm hardball.

People read too much....why we have such a proliferation of guns and speciality ammo is due to commercialization and propaganda that is akin to why the 30-30 was not powerful enough for squirrels for nearly a hundred years.

Preferably a quality U.S. made revolver or semi auto with both being made in large numbers.....the bugs have been worked out.

Why anyone would trust their life to a Taurus as opposed to a Smith or Ruger in order to save $100 is beyond the scope of rational thinking.......but this is America when we are free to choose...... and think---6
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by piller »

Still, you need to shoot the gun to make sure it works.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Personally, I don't put a lot of faith in jello shooting. I know that a lot of people do.

I still carry the same .45 ACP load I carried as a police officer in the 1980s. 230 grain Federal Hydra-shok.

In my .357s I still carry the old Remington 125 grain magnum load with the scalloped jacketed bullet.

Are there better loads? Maybe, but I have shot enough critters with these to be satisfied. But the truth is that I would feel just as comfortable with my handloads in the .45 with a 200 gr SWC or in .38 Special the 173 gr Keith.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Blaine »

It's men without testicularity that stay locked up in their compound, and never venture out with an EDC.
It's men without brains that would stand in front of a 9mm, 38 Special, or 380 hardball. :idea:
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Griff »

My SD rounds are Winchester's Black Talons in 45ACP, er... what I have left of those issued to me for duty ammo. I loved it, I got issued new ammo just before qualifying every quarter plus enough to shoot in qualifying... but I only had to use a small % of my duty ammo in qualifying... And my handloads of the Speer "flying ashtray" doing about 850fps over my chronograph.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by AJMD429 »

... For most men...45 a.c.p. 230 hardball or 38 Spl with 200 gr. at 625 f.p.s. or 9mm hardball

For most women and men without testicles....38 Spl 200 gr at 625 f.p.s. or 9mm hardball
...

:lol:

Priceless... SO politically incorrect... Are you related to Orange Man...???

I’m so glad I live in a gun-friendly county of a gun-friendly state, so ‘concealing’ is just something I don’t think about, since there are only four types of people when it comes to CCW; two count, and two don’t :

1. Cops (they count cuz they can arrest or kill you) - where I live they don’t care if you CCW, unless you are committing a crime; then they don’t really care either - they just shoot you if you need shot. Since I don’t commit crimes or have the confrontational ‘attitude’ if I get a traffic ticket, no matter.

2. Regular citizens (don’t really count) - they don’t notice much so it doesn’t matter; rarely they might notice but seldom do anything or even act bothered.

3. Other Gun People (don’t really count except if they have a more expensive gun then I get jealous) - they may notice, but just like cops, they don’t care, and if anything seem to appreciate a few extra armed Good Guys around.

4. Bad Guys (they only count cuz like cops, they can kill you, but unlike cops, you can’t just avoid getting killed by being law-abiding) - I generally try to avoid bad guys, but when it comes to noticing CCW, the ordinary random meth-head seems just as oblivious as regular people, so although I get the ‘element of surprise’, I don’t worry that much. Unless they shoot me in the back their ‘element of surprise’ will enter their face or chest at about 900 FPS.

Anyhow, I’ve always been lucky enough to be able to carry a full-size firearm, and although for years it was a 14-shot 1911 doublestack, after running drills with it and my Taurus (sorry Sixgun) 92, I realized I was better at double-tapping with the Taurus. Both passed the “1,000 rounds of carry-ammo without malfunction” test, so I went with the 9mm, but not for more ‘concealability ’.

Ironically, when in Ohio in the 1979’s, before they allowed CCW licenses, since I only owned two handguns, and one was a 22 LR, I carried the other one...a 7-1/2” Ruger Super Blackhawk in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder holster, loaded with 240 gr Winchester JSP’s I had accidentally bought and didn’t want to use for deer hunting... :shock: As a night-shift pharmacy student intern I can only imagine the fallout if I’d ever had to splatter some armed robber’s brain matter all over the vitamin display some night. :o

Having advocated for full-size firearms, I will say I REALLY like the SIG P938 9mm; I’d probably like more than six rounds if they ever make a double-stack, but it is the most ‘shootable’ subcompact 9mm I’ve ever shot. FAR more enjoyable to shoot than my daughter’s 380 Ruger LCP. Plus I like exposed hammer guns; that’s probably why I like leverguns; I never liked having lack of control over which springs are tensioned.
Last edited by AJMD429 on Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Sixgun »

Doc,
You have situation awareness down to a science.....well done!

I really don't concern myself because I live in a safe area and only frequent commercialized areas where people don't take up two parking spots and the pavement don't have trash laying on it......I'd live in a one room shack or the next best thing, a trailer up the mountains before I lived anywhere near the hood....yea...I understand bad things happen in good areas but I'm not spending my life looking over my shoulder. I fit into your "number 3 category"....

At the compound (home)....everything changes......I see no need to explain myself on this matter.

Trump? I've been told by more than one person our characters mirror each other.....like Trump, I don't give a F. The only person I owe anything to is myself and that's nothing. :D -----6 o.da bro...... :D The only people whom I concern myself with on what they think of my image is my family.....
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by OldWin »

There has been some great handgun bullet technology in the last 30 years.
In spite of that, a handgun fight is a chancy thing as far as an outcome with speedy termination. In reality, I'm not sure as it is much different than it was over 100 years ago. The old 45 Colt, 44-40, and 38-40 were pretty effective with a good shooter.
For this reason, I like to carry handguns I can hit well with and pack a little wallop.
This is why, for years, my standard for carry is 45acp and 357 in a package I shoot well. Accuracy and thump score higher than huge capacity for me.
If forced to pick one, it will always be a 1911 that is no smaller than a Commander.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by stretch »

This is why, for years, my standard for carry is 45acp and 357 in a package I shoot well. Accuracy and thump score higher than huge capacity for me
Yep - a lot of the old standards became old standards for a reason.

Sometimes I'll pack a 9mm or 38 +P, but more often than not it's a 357. A fully loaded 357 HP - even out
of a 2" barrel - is gonna discourage most people. Probably fatally. Of course, there's no "magic bullet" that's
ALWAYS going to stop a fight instantly. Bigger is generally better.

I, too don't live in a bad neighborhood, but I've had one or two contacts with bad people.
Best thing to do there is make tracks. Try to avoid getting put in a situation where shooting
your way out is the only escape route. My home is a different story. You force your way in or hurt
my family, yer gonna suffer a quick, probably fatal case of lead poisoning.

-Stretch
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by OldWin »

stretch wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:12 am
This is why, for years, my standard for carry is 45acp and 357 in a package I shoot well. Accuracy and thump score higher than huge capacity for me
Yep - a lot of the old standards became old standards for a reason.

Sometimes I'll pack a 9mm or 38 +P, but more often than not it's a 357. A fully loaded 357 HP - even out
of a 2" barrel - is gonna discourage most people. Probably fatally. Of course, there's no "magic bullet" that's
ALWAYS going to stop a fight instantly. Bigger is generally better.

I, too don't live in a bad neighborhood, but I've had one or two contacts with bad people.
Best thing to do there is make tracks. Try to avoid getting put in a situation where shooting
your way out is the only escape route. My home is a different story. You force your way in or hurt
my family, yer gonna suffer a quick, probably fatal case of lead poisoning.

-Stretch

Absolutely. When armed with only a handgun, it's best to avoid any fight.
If in my home with more than 5 seconds warning, the goblin will be facing a carbine, not a handgun.
Handguns are for when there is nothing else. Rifles decide the fate of nations.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by jeepnik »

I suppose each of us having had different experiences choose what we deem appropriate. In my experience, I have found that the .45 acp works. So I usually carry that caliber.

Now obviously there are times I carry smaller calibers. But they are most often as a backup. SoCal weather is t shirt and jeans weather almost year round. While some might think this precludes larger hand guns not so.

Years ago I adopted the Hawaiian shirt as my normal attire. They have several pluses. Obviously in this context you can hide a large handgun. But being loose they offer great freedom of movement. Third is no one looks twisted when they see them.

As to ammunition which is what we are really talking about I have handloads that range from about 200 to 230 grains. Powder charges are different for each. The particular load carried is determined by what has worked well in that handgun.

I’m less concerned about the minutia of accuracy and terminal effect than reliability. If you have time to shoot once you likely have time to shoot again but the gun must be able to shoot again.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Grizz »

in front of a 9mm, 38 Special, or 380 hardball
or 22LR for that matter. still, if what I read is correct, the all time winner at killing people in America.

if i can find a 22 LCP to buy, i'll give it to my wife and use her 380 as a backup to the backup to the 9mm.

yes, i like 45 ACP. there's a 1911 inches from my hand. but my house gun is still the sub2000, and my outside carry is still 380 with 9mm for backup if im going to the airport or anywhere near tacoma!

a 22 between the eyes, or in the ear is still as lethal as a 45 between the eyes. shot placement Trumps caliber IMO. that's why i voted for him 90 million times. uh, . . . yeah. :)
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by JOG »

My preference for carry is 45 acp in the Colt 1911. A solid preforming hollow point is what I keep in my magazine! I also carry a Sig P228 in 9mm. I like having 13 +1 in a handgun. I believe the 9mm round has come a long way. I don't think I would ever carry anything smaller than a 9mm. Look at the dozens and dozens of choices you have with 9mm. I think the 45 is much better at stopping someone quickly. I notice that a lot of you gentleman like the 38 cal. I wonder the ballistic differences between 9mm vs the 38 cal. Now I have to do some research on that!
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by stretch »

"If in my home with more than 5 seconds warning, the goblin will be facing a carbine, not a handgun.
Handguns are for when there is nothing else. Rifles decide the fate of nations."

In most of my house, there simply isn't room to bring a carbine to bear without also putting the
muzzle within reach of an assailant. While there are undeniable power advantages with a cartridge in
a carbine over the same cartridge in a handgun, I don't want to participate in a wrestling match with a bad
guy to see who ends up with the gun. At least not until I've emptied the 357 into him! ;-)

-Stretch
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by JOG »

I use to work for a fine man who was a Vietnam veteran. He always told me a handgun was for fighting your way to get to your rifle!
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Grizz »

stretch wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:58 am "If in my home with more than 5 seconds warning, the goblin will be facing a carbine, not a handgun.
Handguns are for when there is nothing else. Rifles decide the fate of nations."

In most of my house, there simply isn't room to bring a carbine to bear without also putting the
muzzle within reach of an assailant. While there are undeniable power advantages with a cartridge in
a carbine over the same cartridge in a handgun, I don't want to participate in a wrestling match with a bad
guy to see who ends up with the gun. At least not until I've emptied the 357 into him! ;-)

-Stretch
I've always thought that if a criminal grabs the muzzle of my carbine, he will have committed suicide when he yanks on it . . .
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Sixgun »

Personally, I think people fantasize too much.....or watch too much TV

Home invasions a large percentage of the time are interconnected with both sides usually being criminals. Criminals know it's much more dangerous to pick a house over a commercial business or a woman walking in a dark parking lot. If your a gun owner, people know that and while your guns have value, bad man also knows he's going to weigh a couple of hundred more grains after visiting your house. MANY people know I have a LOT of guns, and nice guns, no tomatoe stakes.....I've heard it fifty times...people are afraid to step 5' on my property without a prior phone call.

Bad guy needs dope money.......unless you live in a house of sticks that you can see through, bad man is gonna pick a gas station.

We ain't the FBI or the military.......we are not rescuing hostages......the most any of us are going to see ......and that's a rarity.......is a car jacking, assault in a parking lot, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time during a robbery......they ALL can be avoided if you keep your ears and eyes open and stay in condition yellow......situation awareness.......

Home invasions...come on, use common sense......burglary?....very possible....one thing for sure, any burglar who's going to rob my home or most of your homes isn't going to be a run of the mill low life, he's going to be a professional and there's not enough here for a professional.....if you are hit, it'll probably be your garage and if it is a low life, he's going to be scared going in, not like a one room apartment that some old lady lives in.

Just pick a decent caliber that you KNOW is going to work....hardball..hollowpoint..whatever....I'm happy with anything that goes bang multiple times......as long as the bang is at least 36 caliber.

Gotta live too......ya can't let fear grip your life.---6
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Sixgun »

The number one seller and separater of your cash to their pocket in our culture is "fear"......insurance, home protection, gun companies, ammunition companies, holster makers, gun writers, politicians, the list goes on for a mile...they all make a living on this poop...........it's up to you to be able to differentiate to what is truly needed.....to keep your money where it belongs.

You never stop learning as I got a huge lesson on this last election and you all know what that lesson is????

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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by jkbrea »

My own opinion is have a quality firearm and keep it clean and servicable. Most factory ammo will go bang. Pinpoint accuracy isn't as important inside a home or close quarters confrontation. Just get the lead out!
From 30 years in L.E. these are a few crazy things I've seen in regards to firearms.
At first I carried a S&W 686. Our dept issued the Ruger Security Six. I signed one out to have a gun at home for my wife. Took it to the range and it wouldn't fire. Broken firing pin. Found out it was our recently retired chief's gun he carried for years!
I've seen a couple fellow officers that shoot their firearms for years and never clean them until they malfunction.
Most homicide victims I have seen were killed with a .22 or stabbed. The firearms were usually the worst stuff imaginable. Usually something like a stolen bolt action .22 rifle sawed off on both end and stock wrapped in tape.
Handuns were usually cheap junk that could be discarded. Shotguns didn't kill that many because they have no clue that 00 is better that #8 in a driveby.
I arrested a gang member that told me his Glock "9" was junk. He would always have to work the slide. Turns out he was shooting 9mm out of his .40 cal "9". Another made airsofts fire a .22 by modifying them. He said it worked great until they blow up after the 2nd or 3rd shot!
The point is, any object penetrating a human body far enough and hits vitals can kill. Even if it doesn't, it will usually end the fight. Don't get too hung up on calibers for defense...just have something. I suggest getting the most reliable firearm you can effectively use and quality ammo you can handle.
Of course some penetrate better than others and in colder climates where heavy coats are worn, it may perform better. I usually worry about bullet penetration when hunting or hiking in bear country.
A last note. I have seen numerous cases, including officer involved shootings, where the semi-auto firearm jammed or stovepiped. The guns were fine. Mostly it was caused by "limp wristing" the gun, arm moving back while firing, or shooting around and object or shield. That's why I like revolvers. If you carry concealed, keep that gun clean. Lint and other junk will collect very quickly if you carry everyday. I switch it up occasionally but always pay more attention to my semi-autos.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by piller »

There is an old saying: If it is worth shooting, it is worth shooting twice.

I live in a pretty quiet area with low crime. However, the worst part of Dallas is less than 30 minutes away. It is possible that the crime could come to my neighborhood. Condition white is not my way. Condition yellow with the situational awareness it brings with it is good.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Sixgun »

Well said jkbrea....that's experience talking, not reading stupid gun magazines.

You and I feel the same on semi auto's.....a model 59 I bought new in '75 ate everything I threw in it, cast, hardball, hollowpoimts, the old Super-Vel ammo. I kept it as my bedroom gun, chamber loaded, hammer down, then to get it into action was a long pull on the first shot double action and after the first shot it was single action......

I like to stay prepared and trained......so one day I grabbed the 59 in a hurry..(simulating real world) ....ran through the bedroom, out the back door and fired a shot into the dirt .......ONE SHOT AND THEN A STOVEPIPE......I was flabbergasted.....replaced it with two revolvers.....

After living 66 years I've found Murphy's law is real......another important thought......GUNS CAN DETECT STRESS.....believe it or not......if one shoots as much as I have over the years with multitudes of firearms you will find there is ZERO relation between going out to the club and casually loading your gun vs. a quick grab with an unsteady hand, full of adrenaline and getting the same results in reliability.----6....Mr. Revolver :D
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

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A .357 Mag GP100 is within easy reach of my side of the bed.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Blaine »

I have all my semi shooters with one in the chamber. I was asked "isn't that dangerous"? Yes, and that's why I keep shooters ready to shoot.
I've had Marlin levers jam more than any semi-auto shooter I've had. My G-36 absolutely hated those Blazer Aluminum, and my Ruger MK-II would jam every so often.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Lastmohecken »

I have carried CCW for nearly 30 years, and most of that time, if I was traveling out of my home territory, I almost always carried a Colt Lightweight Commander with jacketed hollowpoints, but if I was to run out of jacketed hollowpoints, (Covid 19 era and current ammo shortages) I would not hesitate to carry 200 gr cast lead semi-wad cutters, handloaded with a little over 5 gr's of Bullseye. Hollowpoints might or might now open up anyway.

If I needed to, I have several Glock 22's in 40 cal and I have killed enough stuff with a 40 cal to have confidence in that, as well.

I am not a big 9mm fan, but sometimes carry a Smith and Wesson Shield with 9mm Hollowpoints because it's light and convenient in a Kydex holster. But I am not entirely comfortable with that power level, but I shoot it well, and it is a gun, far better then the smaller stuff like .380's and .22 mags and such. But even the .380's and .22 mags are still better then no gun at all. First rule of a gunfight is to have a gun. Second rule, (maybe it's the first rule) is don't get shot.

But I have carried everything, from 44 mags and 45 cal revolvers down thru .22's but my first choice has almost always been the Commander in 45 acp, and I can carry it, even in hot summertime under a shirt in a Milt Sparks IWB holster, like the Summer Special or other similar offerings.

Sometimes I carry a 4.75 or 5.5 inch singleaction of the Peacemaker or Ruger configuration and I don't feel under-gunned at all, at least compared to anything in 9mm and down.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

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Staying aware of your surroundings is important in most parts of life. I hope no member of this forum ever needs to use a gun on another human, but if it becomes necessary, i hope you all survive and stay safe.
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

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jeepnik wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:00 amYears ago I adopted the Hawaiian shirt as my normal attire. They have several pluses. Obviously in this context you can hide a large handgun. But being loose they offer great freedom of movement. Third is no one looks twisted when they see them.
I can't tell you the number of times I had a perp ask just after I arrested them... "you're a cop? But, you're wearing a Hawaiian shirt!" Had one tell the uniforms that I was impersonating a cop... Laughed my butt off!
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Buck Elliott »

HEARING.?
Concerns about your hearing ?

You can't hear at all, if an assailant Kills you...
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Blaine »

Buck Elliott wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:44 am HEARING.?
Concerns about your hearing ?

You can't hear at all, if an assailant Kills you...
There are choices, My Dear Watson, that can be had with a little prior planning, and logic. In the house, I choose a standard pressure .45acp that is not NEAR as loud as most other choices. A 12ga slug @ 700fps will make a big "thud" and rip the stuff out of any gobblin....
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4t5
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by 4t5 »

Was it Jeff Cooper that said...the 45 goes in at the diameter other calibers hope to achieve, and hard ball for reliability.?
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Lastmohecken
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Re: One person's observations on CCW ammo choice

Post by Lastmohecken »

4t5 wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:31 pm Was it Jeff Cooper that said...the 45 goes in at the diameter other calibers hope to achieve, and hard ball for reliability.?
Well, in a lot of ways, that why I like the 45 acp, or 40 cal, or .357 even with hollowpoints or at least cast lead semi-wadcutters. A 45 doesn't take a trick, state of the art expanding bullet, to be relatively effective. The little bullets punch tiny holes which may be lethal eventually, but stopping power is more important, if there is actually such a thing in a handgun. Someone can be shot dead on their feet, but still kill you, before they drop.
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