"Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

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Blaine
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"Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Blaine »

I shot loose a cyl on a little 50th Anniversary Blackhawk. Probably shooting hot-loaded 180s. Rounded off them little teeth on the back of the cyl. Ruger sent it back to me in factory new condition, and it went to the back of the bus.

Now, I have a 19-2 that looks new, and I've never shot it. I know it's not an N-Frame. My plan is to use specials in it, but I wonder if factory .357s, say 158s, would be too much if I shot them?
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Ray
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Ray »

Deleted.
Last edited by Ray on Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Turdyturdy »

Model 19s will not stand a steady diet of full power 357 loads. Ok to shoot 38 special plus-p all day long. I am on my third one and learned from shooting the first 2 with 357 loads and they got loose and cracked the barrel forcing cones. I still like the model 19 but limit the load pressures. Look for the the early models with the reccesed cylinders and drilled and pinned barrels.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Tycer »

Turdyturdy wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:37 am Model 19s will not stand a steady diet of full power 357 loads. Ok to shoot 38 special plus-p all day long. I am on my third one and learned from shooting the first 2 with 357 loads and they got loose and cracked the barrel forcing cones. I still like the model 19 but limit the load pressures. Look for the the early models with the reccesed cylinders and drilled and pinned barrels.
I’m sure you already know this but for those that don’t…
The 19s cracked forcing cones happening is two fold. One is the flat cut at 6 o’clock on the breech end to make clearance for the crane upsets the steel’s hoop-stress strength creating a weak spot. Two, as I understand it, shooting SAAMI spec loads with short projectiles (lighter than 147s) allows super hot gases to pass the projectile before it can seal the cone. This super heats the inside of cone expanding the cone core right before being smacked by the projectile.
I’ve bought cracked ones but I have never had one crack as I never shoot anything full power weighing less than 158 grains.
The new model 66 does away with the flat and supports the front of the crane eliminating the end shake. The Dan Wesson-ish screw in barrel with shroud and tensioner makes for a very accurate gun IMO.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

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Kind regards,
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I shoot mostly .38 Special 158 or 173 gr cast bullets over 5 gr of Unique. These guns can take this load almost indefinitely.

BTW, that's a really good article.

But I am not hesitant to put full house magnums in my J or K frame .357s. I don't shoot them a lot because I generally don't need that kind of power.

I have a 340 PD on my hip right now, and it is loaded with 125 gr Remington factory .357 loads.

However, I can attest that these loads aren't great for this little light gun. When I shoot one or two rounds, you can see the blast damage to the soft noses of the remaining rounds in the chambers. This never happens with a 158 gr or heavier jacketed or cast bullet. Now, if the gun is used for its intended purpose (and I hope that day never comes) I won't care about the remaining rounds in the chambers.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by JimT »

I shoot heavy-loaded 125 gr. bullets in my S&W.

1 3/4" S&W Model 340 - 1339 fps

I shoot 2 of these maybe once every 2 years. They hurt! The rest of the time I shoot 158 gr. cast with 3 gr. Bullseye.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

JimT wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:22 am The rest of the time I shoot 158 gr. cast with 3 gr. Bullseye.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by buckeyeshooter »

I am very surprised you shot the Ruger loose. If you give the 19 the same treatment, it will suffer the same fate. I happen to be a N frame fan and have never had one shoot loose in .357. My 44 purchased new in 1981 is going to need service soon after tens of thousands of full power 44's.
I would continue to use the Ruger or get a 27/28.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Blaine »

This was more of a "PSA", although most people, and I, knew about the 19s....I WAS surprised that the Ruger 50th fell apart.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by marlinman93 »

Love the Model 19 S&W< but it can't handle anymore than the Ruger, and probably a little less. The 19 was the reason S&W brought out the upgraded 586, so the 586 could feel like a 19, but handle everything the 27 and 28 could handle.
I'd not shoot heavy loads in a 19, as you'll quickly discover they might not even extract easily. Tried it 40 years ago, and quickly stopped.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

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marlinman93 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:42 pm Love the Model 19 S&W< but it can't handle anymore than the Ruger, and probably a little less. The 19 was the reason S&W brought out the upgraded 586, so the 586 could feel like a 19, but handle everything the 27 and 28 could handle.
I'd not shoot heavy loads in a 19, as you'll quickly discover they might not even extract easily. Tried it 40 years ago, and quickly stopped.
Before everything dried up, I got two cases of 38 spc 130gr fmj just for shooting the 19....
Last edited by Blaine on Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

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marlinman93 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:42 pm Love the Model 19 S&W< but it can't handle anymore than the Ruger, and probably a little less. The 19 was the reason S&W brought out the upgraded 586, so the 586 could feel like a 19, but handle everything the 27 and 28 could handle.
I'd not shoot heavy loads in a 19, as you'll quickly discover they might not even extract easily. Tried it 40 years ago, and quickly stopped.
I have a 4" P&R 66 and a 2.5" RB 19 that I really like. I would love a pre-lock 4" 686 if I didn't have to sell my house for it. Kick myself for not buying one years ago.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by marlinman93 »

OldWin wrote: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:21 am
marlinman93 wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:42 pm Love the Model 19 S&W< but it can't handle anymore than the Ruger, and probably a little less. The 19 was the reason S&W brought out the upgraded 586, so the 586 could feel like a 19, but handle everything the 27 and 28 could handle.
I'd not shoot heavy loads in a 19, as you'll quickly discover they might not even extract easily. Tried it 40 years ago, and quickly stopped.
I have a 4" P&R 66 and a 2.5" RB 19 that I really like. I would love a pre-lock 4" 686 if I didn't have to sell my house for it. Kick myself for not buying one years ago.
As a long time S&W collector, and shooter, I'm both happy and saddened by where the values have gone. I'm tickled pink my guns are now worth way more, but there are some I sold in the past, and always thought I'd buy later. But now I know unless I get extremely lucky I will never own some of them again.
And some of what I own have become so valuable I'm almost afraid to shoot them, or take them out! Last time I took my .38/44 S&W Heavy Duty Target to the range I had a guy there who just wouldn't leave me alone about wanting it. I tried to be decent at first, but finally had to be rude, and that didn't work either. I ended up putting it away in my truck, and locking the door so I could continue shooting.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by horsesoldier03 »

I received a S&W 19-5 when I graduated from HS in 1984. I went to college for a criminal justice major and joined a police pistol team (PPC). Granted, I shot alot of .38 SPL, but it has digested its fair share of both 125 JHP and 158 JHP ammo. It is still tight as far as I can tell and shoots to POA to boot. The only gun that I ever do regret selling was a S&W 596 Nickel 4".
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by GunnyMack »

At school we had an old Ruger Security Six , not shot any longer as it had become part of the curriculum. This gun was a trainer for CLETA, Colorado law enforcement training academy then was sent to the gunsmith school. This gun literally went through hades, someone had a bore obstruction, visible bulge in the barrel, hammer spur was broken off as someone in the past used to hook the hammer on the top of a steel door and do pull-ups ( to show how strong he was I guess) , not to mention the thousands of rounds. Anyhow the gun was in perfect time and the absolutely smoothest double action I've ever felt. Instructor said if ya want accuracy buy a python, want to tune a six gun get a S&W, want a wheel gun ya can drag behind a train, abuse the heck out of it and it'll still work buy a Ruger.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Rusty »

I love my 28-2, it's strong steady will take a lickin and keep on tickin. I think there's something special about the geometry of the N frame that makes the action extra smooth.
I think in the years to come people are going to start smithing Rugers to a match grade level and they will be much more popular.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

This one isn’t delicate. But I think it’s elegant.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by OldWin »

Nice!
Nothing beats the feel and shootability of the older Smiths.
When I graduated high school, my dad bought be a brand new 6" 629. I still treasure it.
Always wanted to pick up another in a 4". Either a 629 or Mountain Gun. With today's prices, I will probably never have one.
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Re: "Some" .357 Handguns Are Delicate

Post by Blaine »

OldWin wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:40 am Nice!
Nothing beats the feel and shootability of the older Smiths.
When I graduated high school, my dad bought be a brand new 6" 629. I still treasure it.
Always wanted to pick up another in a 4". Either a 629 or Mountain Gun. With today's prices, I will probably never have one.
I got a 629PP about 15(?) years ago. A better hunting shooter has never been made. With a quality red dot, it takes the head off of grouse at mucho feet with my 300 gr loads. 1000~fps with Blue Dot excels for me.
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