Lyman 358429 in a levergun

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Scott Tschirhart
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Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Good morning,

Does anyone have experience using the Lyman 358429 (Keith bullet) in the .38 or .357 cartridges in a levergun?

My normal revolver loads with this cartridge are 5 gr of Unique in .38 Special cases and 14.5 gr 2400 with a small rifle primer in a .357 case.

I'm thinking about ordering a batch of these from Montana Bullet Works and trying them, but I would like to hear from others who have tried them.

Thanks in advance
3leggedturtle
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by 3leggedturtle »

I tried some older style Keith type bullets in my lever, fed ok if i did slowly in 2 steps. Some did a topic about they put a slight bevel in the back of the chamber and it helped chamber Keith's as smoothly as RNFP's. Maybe another member can tell who wtote that. I'll try and search for it later on. Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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fordwannabe
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by fordwannabe »

I have used the Keith style in two leverguns in 38/357. I have a Puma from the 1980’s and a Marlin, one that bullet worked slick as cat poop on a glass door knob and the other was herky jerky. Unfortunately my CRS is acting up and I Don’t remember which was which.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Normally, I run 158 gr bullets through the levergun. But I have used 180 gr XTP and 180 gr WFN bullets that fed just fine.

In handguns, the 170 gr Keith bullet tends to shoot well in a variety of handguns and accuracy holds up at longer ranges regardless of whether you shoot them at 800 fps or 1200 fps. But I must confess that I have never put one of these bullets through a levergun barrel.
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J Miller
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by J Miller »

Scott,

Some years ago I tried them in my Marlin 1894. In .357 cases they were iffy, usually the driving band caught on the edge of the chamber and hung up.
In .38 cases they'd feed OK-ish but only if I made sure to hold the rifle straight up and down. Tilt it either way and they would jam.

My normal loads were/are the same as yours except I use small pistol primers in the magnum cases.


Joe
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I commissioned a custom revolver [from Tyler Gun Works] based on my old 4 digit serial number Ruger flattop .357. It is being set up for these loads and it will be a pretty faithful copy of Elmer Keith's No. 5 (except that I am keeping it chambered for .357).

If they don't work in my leverguns, I am good with that, but it is something nice to think about.
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Sixgun »

Why fool with a SWC that will be a gamble if that's all your doing is shooting and playing? If you have a S load of them lying around that's one thing, but if your buying them just get the round nose or TC design.....

I have loaded for about every kind of action known to man in most calibers invented since the seventies and one thing is for certain...SWC's can be made to work in anything but you have to know what your doing and even then you will get occasional hang ups.....round nose or tc designs always work as long as the gun is not junk.....

Did I read that right?....are you sacrificing a 4 digit FT?.... :D ---6
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Sixgun wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:16 pm
Did I read that right?....are you sacrificing a 4 digit FT?.... :D ---6
Not really a sacrifice. This old gun has been carried a lot since it was made. Great gun and very accurate, but the front sight was always too short.

What I will get back will be a lot more useful to me.
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6pt-sika
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by 6pt-sika »

Sixgun wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:16 pm SWC's can be made to work in anything but you have to know what your doing and even then you will get occasional hang ups...... :D ---6
Uh huh I agree ! Every 44 cal SWC mold made by the major mold makers I’ve used in lever action 444’s and killed deer . If you seat them deeper or atleast in my trials they seem to do okay . But as said you need to work the lever with a grain of sense and not like you’re in a race . Several times I’ve plunked two or three deer with a 444 lever using my cast SWC handloads in a matter of seconds and catching the brass in my left hand each time . Sure if you’re playing the cowboy games speed is perhaps a consideration but for anything I do going lever sling crazy isn’t a requirement.
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Tycer
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Tycer »

Hey. I have a 180 LBT mold and plain base 207 that function great in leverguns. Do you cast?
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I do cast, but I haven't gotten the equipment out in several years. My time became too valuable at work and it is far cheaper to get MBW to do my casting for me.

But, I do have several hundreds of pounds of lead and wheelweights set aside for a time when this is not the case.
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Malamute
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Malamute »

One thing Id mention, you asked about a specific Lyman mould number, then said "Keith", to many people, any SWC is a "Keith" bullet, even if its not from one of his moulds. We should try not to use the term "Keith" in regards to generic SWC bullets as it confuses people that know what the actual Keith moulds and bullets are, and isnt correct in any event. Keith didnt "invent" SWC bullets, just developed one of the best ones at that time, and is still excellent.

The true Lyman/Keith bullet that you asked about, the 358429 is longer than standard bullet noses, and longer than most generic SWC bullets. In Winchester 92 actions the Lyman 429421 bullet is too long to feed in a standard 92, the cartridge stop step on the carrier (lifter) has to be cut back. It works perfectly in my 92 browning when loaded in 44 spl cases however, as thats about the difference in nose length. You could try some of the 358429 in 38 spl cases, but Im fairly certain they will be too long in mag cases unless you seat them deeper or the carrier is modified some.

I dont know much about the marlin short actions made for pistol length rounds, but I dont think they are as easily adapted to longer cartridges. perhaps someone here knows more about that. Again, lets keep in mind generic SWC and Keith is not the same thing.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

The Marlin 94 can be modified to feed longer rounds. Mic did one for me years ago that we set up specifically to handle a 180 gr XTP seated to the lower cannelure in .357 cases. That was one sweet rifle and if I ever catch the guy who stole it, it won't be pretty.
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Machado »

I have had good results with the 358429 + the equivalent of 5 grains of Unique in my K38s. The same bullet plus 10 grains of Blue Dot gives me more than acceptable results in my .357 magnum T/Contender. However, the same load in my Rossi is not so exciting.
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Re: Lyman 358429 in a levergun

Post by Twodot »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:11 pm I commissioned a custom revolver [from Tyler Gun Works] based on my old 4 digit serial number Ruger flattop .357. It is being set up for these loads and it will be a pretty faithful copy of Elmer Keith's No. 5 (except that I am keeping it chambered for .357).
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