need some help

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Awhile back about the early 2000's Rossi was using over sized bores (.433/.434) in there 44mag 92's. At that time I was the warranty station for one of the importers. Rossi said they were OK because the SAAMI specs for 44mag in a rifle showed the larger bullet. It took almost two years to convince them to change to the .429/.430 bores. What got movement was two things. We told them that no one offered the larger bullets or loaded ammo and no one would because it was a safety issue if the larger bullet ammo was used in a weaker action like a single action revolver (both Uberti and EAA offer SAA’s in 44mag that aren’t as strong as the Ruger SBH).

Now to the problem I need help with. I have a customer that has one of these guns and wants to know if there is a bullet mold that will work. At one time there were some folks here that had done the research and had come up with a mold source that would also cycle in the 92 action.
Anyone got any ideas?

[COSteve]

Done

[Sixgun]

Some thoughts Nate.......

Jacketed bullets where a couple of thou don't make a difference.

A soft cast or swaged bullet using a semi fast burning powder like Unique up to around 1400 fps.

Any mould can be honed out, either by a machinist or by casting a bullet in that mould, inserting a screw directly in the middle of the base of the bullet with some valve grinding compound, cut the head off of the screw and spinning it with a drill....that doesn't take long.....

I've heard that some manufacturers of moulds will cut you out one that will drop you a bullet at any diameter...dunno...all of my moulds are Lyman's, RCBS, H&G, Lee or Kramers.


I've got a few moulds that will drop the bullet out at .432-3 with a hard alloy....I'll use these for some old 73's...

A fat cast bullet sometimes leads to other issues such as chambering....if the individual in question does not have a fair amount or varied knowledge, it would be easier to just rebarrel the gun.

Yep...nowadays...or recent past.... they make the groove diameters large with slow twists....reduces pressure........I learned long ago that the manufacturers know most people are not "gun people" and only shoot their guns at close distances and usually have money hungry lawyers on speed dial.

[Shasta]

Go to the Accurate Molds website and they can make custom oversize molds. I have their 433205C for my original 1873 Winchester and it shoots them very well.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=all



Shasta

[fordwannabe]

I have an Mihec(same as MP) that throws .434 with three pins. Flat point, small hollow point, and large hollow point. The big HP weighs 250 with my alloy, the small hp 260, the flat point 265. No experience with them in the Rossi though.

[Rockrat]

With Arsenal Molds you can also specify a different diameter. Tom at Accurate Molds makes a great mould and Arsenal are good too.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Some thoughts Nate.......
........................................
Any mould can be honed out, either by a machinist or by casting a bullet in that mould, inserting a screw directly in the middle of the base of the bullet with some valve grinding compound, cut the head off of the screw and spinning it with a drill....that doesn't take long...........
I've done that with round ball molds for C&B pistols. I like .470's then as you seat them they shave down to about 452/4 leaving a long flat on the side to grip the rifling better. Problem is you can't find a .470 round ball mold.

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Yep...nowadays...or recent past.... they make the groove diameters large with slow twists....reduces pressure........I learned long ago that the manufacturers know most people are not "gun people" and only shoot their guns at close distances and usually have money hungry lawyers on speed dial.

Rossi reams to max chambers so the gun will cycle more reliably. So, chambering these larger dia bullets isn't an issue. That's one of the reasons down loaded 45lc CAS ammo tends to blow by in the CAS rifles so bad.

[Sixgun]

OK Nate...learning something new everyday.....probably why I'm so biased against modern pistol calibered guns.....it's nothing personal to the people who own these guns as it's just that I'm so used to near exacting accuracy tolerances that were done in a bygone era with semi rudimentary machinery.......

In my lifetime of working with hundreds of antique guns I've found the old Colt and S&W handguns to be decent, not great but decent......the Winchesters after the 66, the old Marlins, Remington rifles, Colt Lightning rifles, Savage rifles are most all "on the money" unless they were beat up and rusted....nothing to get 2" to max 3" groups at a 100 with cast bullets on a good day and eyesight.

I've shot enough of these modern Marlin Cowboy rifles to know it takes a lot of thinking and development of loads to get 3" at 100....most out of the box might do 5".

As you know a fat chamber will leave the loaded round tilting in the chamber, especially if it's not supported by the bullet into the lands or close to it.

I know you make a living correcting these mistakes...good job security....

And then there's the feeding issues with these modern guns...... 6

[hondo1892]

Yep Accurate is the way to go. Ordered one a few months back and had the mold in a week.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Thanks guys.
I sent him a link to the post.

[COSteve]

Done

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Rossi reams to max chambers so the gun will cycle more reliably. So, chambering these larger dia bullets isn't an issue. That's one of the reasons down loaded 45lc CAS ammo tends to blow by in the CAS rifles so bad.

Heck, both my Uberti .45 Colt leverguns; the '66 and '73 scorch my Skyline brass with only near full standard pressure loads of Unique and 255grn plated X-Treme or hardcast lead bullets.

However, I've realized that Skyline brass I got is brittle and so it's doesn't seal very well at all. This realization is from my .357Mag loads with their brass as they were cracking and/or splitting after only 2 full power H110 loads. So I scrapped them and went to Winchester brass and the problem disappeared.

Back when I was a warranty station I had several Rossi and Uberti rifles in 45lc sent to me because the owners were convince the chambers were bulged. The brass did show a bulge but it would easily fall out of the chambers. If the chamber was truly bulged the brass would tend to hang/stick in the chamber. But it didn't. What they were seeing was a softer area of the case that expanded out to the max chamber.

I did a chamber cast and found the chamber to be within SAMMI spec. and the cases were truly bulged but not beyond SAMMI. The fired bulged brass would easily chamber and fall right out if the open rifle was held vertical.

I don’t have historical evidence but my swag (smart wild ash guess) is Colt did this around 1900 when they declared their guns to be nitro proofed. This was also about the time they got away from the balloon style cases and went with the swaged/rebated rim cases seen today. For their smokeless ammo they reduced the bullet size from the old black powder era of .454-.456” down to .451-452” . I think they did that in case someone shot the new smokeless ammo in their old black powder era colt. the bullet would just rattle down the bore and not blow up the gun. But, they left the chambers big probably so the smokeless guns would still chamber the old ammo and by 1935 SAAMI came about and copied the specs.

[jhrosier]

A cast bullet that has been powder coated would be a few thousandths larger in diameter.

Jack

[Larkbill]

I've been struggling with an Interarms era Rossi in .45 Colt trying to get minute of turkey accuracy out of it. Finally slugged it and as far as I can tell it measures .453. Worn out rifling button or did they do it on purpose?

Finally have it on track using some Hornady .454 Cowboy bullets, but along the way discovered that no matter what bullet I used it wouldn't shoot well with Unique. Now using Bullseye or Claydot and getting 1 3/4" at 50 yds if I can do my part. And oddly it also will do that with some .452 Missouri Bullet 230 gr RN with the Hi-tek coating. But not with Unique.

At least now when I miss I know it's my inability to shoot offhand.