Revisiting Various Loading Presses

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JohndeFresno
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Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

This was inspired by earlmck's thread,
"Re: For the progressive 303 Savage Shooter."

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=65318

I have been looking at the Hornady Lock-N-Load Progressive press for a couple of years, now, because its setup appears to be the quickest of any true progressive press, and its lock-in dies are a real plus. But it seems that its shell ejection system still needs some work, which was a problem with its earlier model(s).

Image

My first setup was the RCBS Rockchucker (center) which has done well for over 12 years with rifle loads that I want to carefully load, one process at a time. For other loads such as plinking and pistol loads, faster output was desired.

The Dillon sure sounds appealing for higher production rates and consistent loads. But when I go online, I constantly read comments of "work arounds" and so on to problems with that setup. Just go to a Dillon site and see for yourself. I have concluded that if you use a dedicated Dillon station for each caliber, it works very well. But if you constantly change calibers and loads within calibers (as I do), the setup is long (powder, primer, etc. changeovers, even with preset die stations) and problems are prone to develop. I liken the Dillon to a Lamborghini - very fast, somewhat complicated, very high maintenance. And very expensive, since after your first setup, you will be purchasing die stations for each additional setup, as my friend did/does. I'm a Toyota guy - I want value, mileage, with no unnecessary service time.

OK - I suspect that there will be a flood of Dillon defenders. They are passionate and loyal to their product, just as Mac computer users are. My hat is off to y'all, but I ain't listening much any more.

As for my Dillon friend - I met him online at a sporting goods forum, and he sold me his setups at a tremendous bargain so that he could "step up to The Blue." He is happy with his change, and still spending money on it.

The old RCBS Piggyback (on the left in the photo) has worked faithfully over the years, although the auto-indexer bushing went out. RCBS sent me another one, which has to be pressed into the setup. I had difficulty doing that, and then decided that I'm actually happier indexing the shellplate (turning the base holding the cartridges) by hand to avoid any skipping. One model of Dillon works that way, anyway.

I have read much about primers sticking in tubes unless you clean them regularly (another chore requiring scheduling), primer tray alignment problems, flipped primers, etc - from users of all brands of reloading presses. So I will not use any auto prime system.

Instead, I use the RCBS hand priming tool for that chore. One advantage of hand priming - when I run across unexpected anomalies, like the occasional .45 ACP with a small primer pocket - hand priming allows one to feel the mismatch before things get out of hand. A progressive press, not so much!

The bad thing about the RCBS Piggyback Progressive machinery: That danged shellplate is so hard to unscrew and re-install inside its carousel with these beefy ol' hands! I use a short chuck and Allen bit to fit into the tight cage area, but it is still time consuming.
Image

And after a couple of hundred rounds, the plate always works loose, bringing reloading to a halt. So I applied some Loctite to the plate and now use it for loading .44 Mags, only (since I shoot that in quantities, usually a reduced 1,000 fps cast target load).

The LEE Turret press on the right is used for all other loads. It will not accommodate extremely long rifle cartridges like the .50 BMG, but I don't load that, anyway. Its production rate cannot match a progressive setup, but its changeover is immediate. Over the years I have purchased LEE and RCBS dies and the very inexpensive LEE turrets to create "setups" a la Dillon, so I just pop in the caliber desired and adjust the powder and bullet depth. That is done quickly, using a dummy round. No screwing down the seater, then backing it out and screwing down the die for the crimp. etc. Instead, the bullet is seated and later the crimping is completed with a LEE Factory Crimp die as a final step.

Pictured in the setup on the right is the Lee AutoDisk Powder Measure which feeds into the expander die. I found that the adjustable Powder Measure Bar (instead of Auto Disks) is far more reasonable to use, since you have infinite (instead of several preset) adjustments. This setup - an attached powder measure for each "setup" on the turret press - is my only real additional expense for my various setups that are stored in the cabinets above the reloading area. But some came with my original purchase and others were not all that expensive.

In the final analysis:
The RCBS Rockchucker, with its powder measure on the extreme left of my loading station, works reliably for careful handloads.

The RCBS Piggyback Conversion Progressive press, due to its slow and somewhat difficult setup changeovers, now works well as a dedicated, fast, one caliber station. It is essentially glued together for one caliber.

The LEE with its drop-in turrets is perhaps the quickest press in the world for changeovers!
Image
It is the way to go for, maybe, 50 or 100 rounds at a session. But production rate suffers, because you have to insert one case at a time, and either walk it around or insert and remove each cartridge for each stage of loading.

I was hoping for a quick changing, reliable progressive that doesn't take an engineering degree to maintain. It appears that Hornady has come close but isn't quite there yet. So I'll keep using my setup.

(Edited for more photos - JdeF)
Last edited by JohndeFresno on Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Blaine »

Compared to most of you, I only "dabble" in loading. I decided on a Lee Progressive about 15 years ago, but I disconnected all the progressive stuff, and index it manually, so I can better supervise every step in the process by doing them one at a time. I do have a hand press with a universal decapper, and I use a hand primer to do the priming....This works for me, maybe not for anybody else.. :lol: . I can start and finish a round without switching dies because they are already installed on a disk(?), and I have disks for every caliber. I have a 550B that was gifted to me, but I've not set it up, and prolly will not.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

BlaineG wrote:Compared to most of you, I only "dabble" in loading. I decided on a Lee Progressive about 15 years ago, but I disconnected all the progressive stuff, and index it manually, so I can better supervise every step in the process by doing them one at a time. I do have a hand press with a universal decapper, and I use a hand primer to do the priming....This works for me, maybe not for anybody else.. :lol: . I can start and finish a round without switching dies because they are already installed on a disk(?), and I have disks for every caliber. I have a 550B that was gifted to me, but I've not set it up, and prolly will not.
Blaine, Thanks.

For some reason, I have not looked at the Lee Progressive. Perhaps someone told me that it is balky. But many folks have said that of other Lee products, yet I have found them generally to be very reliable, such as the dies, and less expensive than other brands.

I'll research the Lee Progressive.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Catshooter »

John,

I have to agree with much of what you've said. I've tried various this and that over the years also. *sigh* Glock-like engineering is dang hard to come by.

I ended up with a Piggyback that lives on top of my Rockchucker pretty much permanently for pistol rounds. I can dismount it, and have but don't very often as I have an old Lyman Spartan if I need a single stage. Which i do from time to time.

For rifle work I use an RCBS Ammomaster. It's a Piggyback on steroids. RCBS makes good stuff, and no one who isn't an idiot can complain about their customer service. But. You are so right that little carousel is little. I suppose if we had piano player hands it would be fine. Again, *sigh*.

All them tiny delicate and intricate parts may make it cheaper (?) but they suck to work on to switch out calibers and suchlike.

Oh well. At least everybody standardized on die threads! :)


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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

Catshooter,

There you go. With the RCBS, I have had broken pins (my fault, using military brass), a clouded powder chamber (my fault as a new reloader, leaving powder in the chamber overnight in bad weather), and a couple of other items that they immediately replace. And wanting to be honest, I offered to pay for the parts because it was my fault and the old Piggyback setup was a second-party machine, as stated.

I told them all of that, but it didn't matter. Their response and service is good as gold.

And the simple ejection system - a bent wire - is bone simple to adjust and always works. The auto powder dump takes literally a few seconds to disconnect and connect for different loads.

I would say that I love every part about their system except the maddening way the shell plate works loose and the resultant struggle to unscrew the center hub and those teeny tiny screws, and then put it together again.

So if somebody here has RCBS' ear - if they fixed the whole shellplate fiasco, I would not hesitate to purchase a whole new press. Perhaps some type of secure locking, liftoff carousel is in order.

In fact - that's what I'm going to do right now. I'll e-mail RCBS with this thread!

(EDIT - Done!)
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Blaine »

JohndeFresno wrote:
BlaineG wrote:Compared to most of you, I only "dabble" in loading. I decided on a Lee Progressive about 15 years ago, but I disconnected all the progressive stuff, and index it manually, so I can better supervise every step in the process by doing them one at a time. I do have a hand press with a universal decapper, and I use a hand primer to do the priming....This works for me, maybe not for anybody else.. :lol: . I can start and finish a round without switching dies because they are already installed on a disk(?), and I have disks for every caliber. I have a 550B that was gifted to me, but I've not set it up, and prolly will not.
Blaine, Thanks.

For some reason, I have not looked at the Lee Progressive. Perhaps someone told me that it is balky. But many folks have said that of other Lee products, yet I have found them generally to be very reliable, such as the dies, and less expensive than other brands.

I'll research the Lee Progressive.
I've never used it as a progressive....I've heard it's sort of Rube Goldberg-ish.....
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by marlinman93 »

I think I've owned every conceivable brand and style of press over the years. Started out with an RCBS Rockchucker too, and still have it. I gave up on progressives for the same reason you mentioned; I didn't like changing calibers, and didn't shoot enough of one to leave it alone.
I now have just the Rockchucker, and an old Lyman turret press, and that does it all. I use the RCBS mostly, but the Lyman turret press does a great job too! I love being able to put all three dies in it, and do each step by simply turning the turret to that die. I can even add a 4th die, like my Meacham Easy Seater, since it has room for 6 dies.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by gundownunder »

I've used my Lee challenger press for the past 10 years with no complaints. Not being a volume shooter I don't really need to churn out several hundred rounds an hour. That said, I have looked at getting a turret press a couple of times to make setting up easier. I seem to recall when I was reading about the Lee classic cast turret, that it could be either auto or manual indexed. If that is true, I would have thought it would be capable of a pretty good production rate.
As for the Lee progressive, I read a story on one of the forums about a guy that had one. He got so frustrated by it that he threw it straight through his shed window into his backyard (don't know what the window did to deserve that :lol: ).
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Blaine »

Correction: I bought the Lee Classic Turret Press....I'm sorry to have mislead. :oops: :oops: It was capable of Auto Indexing, and I disconnected all of that. You could attach all the bells and whistles as extras to make it "sort of" progressive which is why I called it a Rube Goldberg contraption.
I have to say, even as a "dabbler" I made good ammo that was just as accurate as the factory stuff I bought. Particularly useful was downloaded .44 mag stuff. I don't find any advantage loading it to OMG levels. 1000 fps no matter the bullet weight is more than sufficient for anything.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by AJMD429 »

I have a RCBS Rockchucker, a Lee 4-hole Turret, and a Dillon RL550B.

The RCBS is the ticket for things I load slowly and carefully, or need lots of force for, primer pocket swaging, etc.

The Dillon I use very seldom due to longer set-up. Would be fast if I had a different measure for each cartridge. Perfect for loading LOTS of one thing, like you said. If I ever get back into high-volume shooting for pistol or 223 I'll fire it up again.

The Lee Turret for me (usually 30 to 300 rounds per load batch) is perfect.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by 2571 »

I've got a bunch of Lee Classic reloaders, 1/2 dozen presses & a 550. I like the Dillon the least.

Recently saw 2 mechanical engineers working on a Dillon for an hour, trying to make it work before quitting in disgust.

I called Dillon with a problem and they told me the situation was routine & that I should bend a paperclip and replace the OEM part.

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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

AJMD429 wrote:I have a RCBS Rockchucker, a Lee 4-hole Turret, and a Dillon RL550B.

The RCBS is the ticket for things I load slowly and carefully, or need lots of force for, primer pocket swaging, etc... The Dillon I use very seldom due to longer set-up... Perfect for loading LOTS of one thing... The Lee Turret for me (usually 30 to 300 rounds per load batch) is perfect.
There you go.

2571 wrote:I've got a bunch of Lee Classic reloaders, 1/2 dozen presses & a 550. I like the Dillon the least... saw 2 mechanical engineers working on a Dillon for an hour... No, every one here will not will not tell you the are a fan of Blue.
Wow - didn't expect to hear that from a Dillon owner. With most, it seems like a sacrilege has been committed if one hints that Blue isn't the answer.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Lever-Lover »

2571 wrote:I've got a bunch of Lee Classic reloaders, 1/2 dozen presses & a 550. I like the Dillon the least.

Recently saw 2 mechanical engineers working on a Dillon for an hour, trying to make it work before quitting in disgust.

I called Dillon with a problem and they told me the situation was routine & that I should bend a paperclip and replace the OEM part.
Any chance you might steer those disgusted engineers in my direction? Perhaps I could take it off their hands.

Seriously, I began loading years ago with rock chuckers loading for mid/long range rifle shooting. they worked fine for a single stage presses but I wanted a progressive press for loading .45 ACP and 9MM in bulk. I began looking for a progressive and stumbled across a Dillon Square Deal B that had a 9MM die set in it and it was cheap! I ended up paying all the bucks for .45 ACP die set but it did knock out round after round with boring regularity. I have to say Dillon service was outstanding with any issues I came up with. I actually broke the press handle off it for some reason. I have no idea why but I called service and had a new one in the mail that day, free of charge. One thing I did not like about it was proprietary dies that only fit that press. I'd rather have a press that uses standard 7/8" threaded dies and a 550B showed up in the local newspaper for a very low price. It also came with 4 powder dispensers along with accompanying die sets and conversion kits.

I actually use that 550B for just about everything I load now. I still have the rock chuckers but I have relegated them to depriming and swaging duties now. I went to a swap meet and picked up 3 brand new powder dispensers for $100, total. I did just pick up a Dillon 650 press that I plan to use for .45 ACP, and .45 Colt. I have a long lists of calibers I reload using my 550B.

I have to say Dillon has always replaced any thing that cause me problems, no questions asked. I think they were also the 1st to have an unlimited warranty that transfers to any new owner. I, for one, cannot complain about the presses.

Just another persons personal view of these presses.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by AJMD429 »

I am impressed by the Dillon product line, and I did add a micrometer powder bar that enables very fast re-settable powder doses, but most impressive is their corporate pro-second-amendment attitude. It just isn't the press for a tinkerer-reloaded like me who often loads a few dozen rounds each dozen with a different crimp, or charge, or primer, just to experiment; that is Rockchucker-turf. OTOH the venerable Rockchucker is I'll-suited for loading up 500-1000 round batches of 38 Special or 44 Mag, the Dillon is perfect...!

The Lee Turret fills in the middle... 8)
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by M. M. Wright »

+1 to Lever-Lover

And just to show you how old I am, I still use 2 Herter's single stage presses and a Herter's powder measure. "Model Perfect, order one out and try it."
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Griff »

I started reloading in 1972 on a RCBS Jr. II. Still have it. Until I bought the Sharps in .40-90SBN, I didn't need a Rock Chucker with it's bigger "window" or leverage. Sizing that big 2-5/8" case was WORK on the Jr. Not so much on the Rock Chucker! Well before the Sharps or the Rock Chucker, I started cowboy action shooting. Even then, the Jr. worked well, turned out round after round of quality ammo. Then in 1988 my son and wife started cowboy action shooting.

I'd been casting my own .452 bullets for both the ACP and Colt rounds, and loading all my ammo; even with a full-time job, it was easy to keep up. But, with the added two shooters using 38Spls, it became a drudge to load... hard to keep ammo on hand for shooters 3 shooters, shooting almost weekly! Between pistol and shotgun ammo, it was almost like I had two full-time jobs!

Two fellow shooters were both using Dillons, one a 550 and the other a 450. So, the summer of 1988 I got a Dillon 550B for my birthday. Apparently my wife didn't care for how much time I spent in the garage loading ammo. I went to my friends and saw how they set theirs up, and they gave lots of good advice.

I easily tripled my output. Did I have some adjustment pains? You bet. But, between two friends and Dillon's tech services, I've overcame the little things that come along with almost any equipment. Yes, I've added a couple of re-designed, after market features to the 2 Dillon 550Bs I have. One set for large primers and one for small. It's a real pleasure not to be resetting those. I have 3 powder dispensers... one each setup for small and large charge bars, with micrometer adjustment knobs, the 3rd is strictly a BP setup. I use a standard Dillon powder dispenser for BP. I then added the flat "Torrington" bearings for the shellplate for smoother rotating. I also added a longer bearing plate under the primer feed bars, reducing the tendency of the bar to wear the back end and cause it to "catch". It's the one added feature I think Dillon would be well served to incorporate into their standard machine. In fact, I now recommend it's use on any 550B.

I have toolheads in all cartridges I load on the Dillons, which in reality only consists of 25ACP, 38/357, 40S&W, 45ACP, Cowboy45Special, and 45 Colt in handgun calibers and 5.56 for rifle rounds. I still load the 30WCF, .30-06, .375Win, .40-90SBN & .45-70 on the Rock Chucker.

I probably on "dabble" in reloading also. But, I spend fewer hours at it than I used to. Only loading for two shooters now, (.38Spls get loaded on a "I-don't-have-anything-else-that-needs-doin'-now" basis)! With about 3,000 38Spl cases yet to load, and no one shooting them, I'm in no rush to fill 'em up! But, when I get the urge, it's nice to sit down, set the powder measure, & load 3-400 cases and be cleaned up again in a couple of hours!

I have a couple of gallons of empty cases for everything except the little 25ACP... but with only a 2-shot derringer to feed, it's not terribly necessary!

While I like my Dillons, I understand that they're not for everyone. I think the 550B is relatively simple, easy to setup and simpler to operate. But, like most things mechanical, they require adjustment, and those adjustments can be critical to smooth and consistent results. There are a couple of points that can be quite difficult to get "right", unless you figure out the "trick". One of those is the primer cup position. Either when I first got it, I got really lucky, as it was smooth and correctly positioned for running the first batch of 38Spls I loaded... some 1,000 rounds. As soon as I changed over the 'large' cup, it started flipping primers and generally acting up! After several sessions of moving the cup around I finally got it set right and running smoothly, no flipped primers or balky feeding! This happened every time I changed over. Until I learned to assemble the primer feeder loosely, set the cup under the shell plate in it's needed position and THEN tighten the screws holding it in place! Viola! Easy, peasy! Felt like a dunce, and wondered why I took so long to figure this out! The only other thing that requires attention are the bends in the primer actuator rod... It needs to be bent so it applies just a slight "outward" pressure on the roller wheel on the primer bar itself. If it has any "inward" pressure, when the bar extends to the rear, the wheel will often get hung up on the back of the bearing plate, stopping the bar from coming forward.

For me, the longest part of my setup is filling the number of primer tubes I'll need for any particular loading session. When I bought my first Dillon, I splurged and bought 10 extra primer feed tubes of each size. Figuring that I'd never sit down and load 1,000 rounds at one sitting! So I don't. And while I could use more tubes, since I don't have 'em, after a 1,000 rounds I'm done! I'm usually ready for a change of activity anyway! In fact, I rarely load more than 5 tubes for any session, unless I'm ready to load 2 or more cartridges using the same size primer. And with only the machine for small primers needing a change from or to rifle primers, even leaving primers in the tube isn't an issue. And I make sure to use ALL the primers in the machine when loading rifle rounds.

The 550B isn't the fastest machine out there, maybe even not the easiest or best by any standard of measure, and trying to run it at its capacity can be frustrating when something goes wrong, (Murphy is alive and well when doing so), but it's what I'm accustomed to, & I've adopted a patient attitude and run along comfortably, checking my powder charge every 50 or so rounds, and can still load that 3-400 rounds in a couple of hours. That includes the setup of the machine, getting my powder charge right, loading the primer tubes, loading the ammo, then boxing it all up, and walking to and from the barn to do all this.

Now, thinking about a progressive press for my shotshells!!!
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

My Rockchucker will ,and does, load everything I would ever have a desire to load. It's not fast but does a great job. Being retired,what is the rush?
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Blaine »

Chuck 100 yd wrote:My Rockchucker will ,and does, load everything I would ever have a desire to load. It's not fast but does a great job. Being retired,what is the rush?
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

Chuck 100 yd wrote:My Rockchucker will ,and does, load everything I would ever have a desire to load. It's not fast but does a great job. Being retired,what is the rush?
Lucky guy.

For me, every minute seems to be a gold nugget.

I'm one of the retired crowd who seems to have less time for himself than when I was working! There is my mandatory time with Leverguns forum, of course. Then - Family needs, Grandchildren, doctors desiring our frequent company...
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Chris83716 »

I came to the same solution as Griff. Two Dillion 550's, one set for small primers and one set for large primers. Swap out the shell plates and change tool head. About five minutes to get every thing changed and then load. I don't think I will ever wear one out and you can make a pile of ammo pretty fast.

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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Catshooter »

I think the Rockchucker is the standard for single stages to be measured against.

I do love my Ammomaster though. It has it's weaknesses of course, but I like this:

Image

That's 45-70 coming to life. :)


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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by 6pt-sika »

I shoot quite a bit at times , but I've never seen the need for a progressive metallic press . When I'm loading I generally never load more then a dozen of the same thing before I change powder charge , charge weight or the projectile .

So with that being said I've used a Ponsness Warren Metallic II thru my entire loading life . I had a Lee 1000 for 38 Special once upon a time , while it was a functional and thrifty item I can't say I recommend it . My PW is called a semi progressive press FWTW !

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/images/161METlg.jpg

http://www.operatorchan.org/clw/src/134244534515.jpg

Now I do like progressive for shotgun shells namely the Ponsness Warren 800 Plus for the 12 , 16 , 20 , 28 and 410 and the PW LS-1000 for the 10 gauge 2 7/8" .


800 Plus

http://www.gamaliel.com/images/PWG800plus_L.jpg

LS-1000


http://www.ballisticproducts.com/images/LS1000.jpg


I suppose if I were going to get a progressive metallic loader I'd most likely go with the Dillon 650 , but that's just me .

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Ben_Rumson
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Ben_Rumson »

John I just wonder with your various set up times & woes if your Lee might be able offset some of those with a Lee 4 hole Turret conversion kit. You could have in Station 1, a sizing die with the de capping pin removed ...
Station 2, Lee's powder thru expander/flaring die & your powder dispenser
Station 3 seating die
Station 4 crimping die.
For the above set up I suggest DE CAP- TUMBLE- PRIME to prep your cases before they go into the press. You're already halfway there now.

You would then place a prepped case in the shell holder, raise the ram, = sized case
Lower the ram just enough so you can hand rotate the turret to station 2. etc.. etc. etc. until you have a finished round
Would that method be enough of a time offset with its simplicity ?
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

Ben_Rumson wrote:John I just wonder with your various set up times & woes if your Lee might be able offset some of those with a Lee 4 hole Turret conversion kit. You could have in Station 1, a sizing die with the de capping pin removed ...
Jim,

Your suggestion is certainly a good one, especially for one who is starting out with his/her purchases for reloading.

I just got through loading 50 low powder (4.0 gr. Unique) 258 grain cast bullets for my aluminum (old Airweight) .38 snubby, for low pressure double action target practice. My setup for this practice load is permanent, so my 3 holer holds the Sizer/decapper, powder-thru bell die, and seater/crimper where the crimp is set.

Some other setups - where I will adjust for more than one bullet length in the same caliber - use a sizer with no decapper and a Universal decapper die (on another disk) to start the process prior to hand priming.

I have walked things around the turret press before, but since pistol powder capacities are minimal and there is the occasional problem with bridging or what not, I now like to do one process at a time in the smaller calibers. All the belling and powder dumps are done, then shells are viewed in a shellholder with a flashlight for uniform powder depth, some are weighed and then powder is returned to them. Then I run 50 at a time through the seating and crimping. Some loads have the crimp already set. Other loads, where bullet size changes, are quick set without a crimp and I then use another wheel (disk) for the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

I haven't gone with the 4 holers - a much better idea - because I have 25 or more turrets all loaded up. Some calibers have more than one set of dies for very quick preset use. If I go to 4 holes, I'll have to replace all of tho$e di$k$. I may just do that, anyway.

I have been holding out, hoping that a Hornady AP might solve all my problems with one big cash outlay, then sell my current stuff for a song to a new reloader. But Right now it's easier to pop one or the other turret disk in, e.g. a separate turret for crimping.

I'd really love a 5 or even 7 station turrent, but nothing around is easier, cheaper, or quicker to put into motion than the LEE Turret press.

If I was convinced that the Hornady AP was really reliable, I would seriously think about replacing all three presses with that one, since it has features like a powder dispenser that won't work unless a cartridge is in place, and some other good ideas.

If I shot as many rounds as Griff and had more loading space instead of a six foot of space along an interior garage wall, then the investment might be worth having two Dillons as described, with the different primer configurations ready to go. That is a large part of the hassle with the Big Blue. But again, we are talking about a large investment; and as much as I love reloading, shooting, and studying the hobby, I don't put that many rounds down range each month.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

6pt-sika wrote:...Ponsness Warren Metallic II t...
VERY interesting, 6pt-sika - never saw the likes of these!

Great photo of those .45-70's on the carousel, Catshooter.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by earlmck »

You have an interesting thread going here, John. I wish someone else with a Hornady progressive would chime in -- I know I'm not the only one here with one of the things since they had such a good deal going a few years ago when they sold the press for under $250 and gave you 1000 Hornady jacketed bullets along with it...

The way the cartridge ejection deal works, there is a circular spring that goes around the entire shell plate to hold the cases in tight. This spring feeds into a slot milled in the base under the shell plate so that it drops down out of the way for the short space that the shell hits the ejection area where a small hump kicks the shell into the tray. I'm guessing if the spring slid down into that slot just a millimeter sooner the ejection would be flawless. So it is possible that my particular press is not representative of the entire breed....

Would another Hornady AP owner please join in here?

And while we are talking progressive press operations here, I want to give a big Thank-You to the folks on this forum who told me that Hornady One-shot case lube is just about as good as having carbide size dies. Yep, the stuff lubes the whole case and even the inside of the neck and then dries non-sticky. The only way to go when running bottleneck cartridges on a progressive! (Well, Lee's size lube works the same way but isn't as handy as the spray stuff...)
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Chuck 100 yd
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Chuck 100 yd »

BlaineG wrote:
Chuck 100 yd wrote:My Rockchucker will ,and does, load everything I would ever have a desire to load. It's not fast but does a great job. Being retired,what is the rush?
'Zackly.....Why put off today what you can put off next week? :oops:
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

earlmck wrote:...a few years ago when they sold the press for under $250 and gave you 1000 Hornady jacketed bullets along with it...
Maybe you have an "Older" model; I have read that their latest model has solved the ejection problem, but won't work with the "old" shell holders. Hmmm

Anyway, I could live with occasionally having to flick a shell out. I'll have to look at the Hornady again. I wish somebody near me (that I know of) had a working model. Even at their price, that is a handsome outlay of cash for the likes of me.
earlmck wrote:...Hornady One-shot case lube...lubes the whole case and even the inside of the neck and then dries non-sticky. ...
How so?

Do you just shoot around it and towards the neck? Or apply a dab inside with a Q-tip?
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

Chuck 100 yd wrote: My old boss used to say " Never do anything today that will leave you idle tomorrow" I like the way he thinks!
:lol:
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Catshooter »

Even though my bench is almost all green I have to say that the Lee turret is a fine piece of engineering. That quick change turret is the cat's pajamas.

If I was limited in space and could have only one press it would be the Ammomaster. From 25 ACP to 50 BMG single station and everything in between either single or progressive it's tough to beat. And anything that can full length size the BMG is strong.

The Hornady spray case lube is the only way to fly as far as I can tell. It's only downside is you have to wait for it to dry. Takes a minute or less, but until it's dry it isn't much of a lube. Afterwards, oh yea.


Cat
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earlmck
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by earlmck »

JohndeFresno wrote:
earlmck wrote:...a few years ago when they sold the press for under $250 and gave you 1000 Hornady jacketed bullets along with it...
Maybe you have an "Older" model; I have read that their latest model has solved the ejection problem, but won't work with the "old" shell holders. Hmmm

Anyway, I could live with occasionally having to flick a shell out. I'll have to look at the Hornady again. I wish somebody near me (that I know of) had a working model. Even at their price, that is a handsome outlay of cash for the likes of me.
earlmck wrote:...Hornady One-shot case lube...lubes the whole case and even the inside of the neck and then dries non-sticky. ...
How so?

Do you just shoot around it and towards the neck? Or apply a dab inside with a Q-tip?
My Hornady is new enough that it takes the new-style shell plates so has their latest ejection system. It is (at least with my press) not quite flawless. Nearly all the ejection issues are merely an occasional cartridge that is kicked all the way over to my loading bench rather than landing in the tray. There are a couple of cartridges I load where they hang a bit at the ejection "bump" and need the finger assist out of the shell plate.

But the One-Shot lube is danged fine. I just put 50 cases in a tray and step outside, with cases arranged that way in a tray you are spraying at a downward angle from above so you will get most of the inside case necks sprayed even without trying: I spray from one side and then turn the tray around and spray from the other so the cases are well covered. I might give a little squirt extra around the mouths but probably wouldn't need to. A couple of my rifles have large chambers and full-length sizing takes a pretty good push. For those the One-Shot is not as good a lube as my old standby greasy ones, but for most everything I do it is good stuff. And so much less clean-up required!

Oh yes, I just looked back at old posts and found that it was EdinCT and jnyork who first steered me to the Hornady lube. Thanks again fellows!
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JohndeFresno
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

earlmck wrote:...One-Shot lube is danged fine. I just put 50 cases in a tray and step outside, with cases arranged that way in a tray you are spraying at a downward angle from above so you will get most of the inside case necks sprayed even without trying: I spray from one side and then turn the tray around and spray from the other so the cases are well covered. I might give a little squirt extra around the mouths but probably wouldn't need to. A couple of my rifles have large chambers and full-length sizing takes a pretty good push. For those the One-Shot is not as good a lube as my old standby greasy ones, but for most everything I do it is good stuff. And so much less clean-up required!

Oh yes, I just looked back at old posts and found that it was EdinCT and jnyork who first steered me to the Hornady lube. Thanks again fellows!
Good info, Earl. In the future, it looks like a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP for me, unless I slow down on reloading.

And the above lube technique information is useful. Because of posts here, I have received some great bullet lube advice over the years, and now have somewhat of a collection - wax, lubes, and spray. But never gave my unopened Hornady One Shot spray a try. Perhaps I'll move to that until it is exhausted.

Incidentally, the RCBS Lube Die is now what I always use for those skinny .223's. An experiment with that device was posted earlier here:
"Testing RCBS Lube/Deprime Dies"
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=64261
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by stretch »

Interestin' discussion.

My first press was a Dillon Square deal. I still have it. The
powder measure is not quite as consistent as I'd like, but it
loads good ammo. Changing from large to small primers is
a PITA, IMHO.

I have a Lyman Orange Crush and a Lee O-frame for cast single
stage presses. Both are fine, and will likely outlast me. Also one
of those cheap pot metal Lee single stage jobs. I use it solely for
depriming. I got it for free with the Lee loading manual. It's kinda
loose, but works just fine for decapping. I obtained an old Bonanza
press, (now Forster, but they still sell parts and suchlike for the old
Bonanza) and with the updated priming system, I think it is my favorite
single-stage press. The spent primer system is the cleanest of all
the presses I own. And it's built like a tank.

I also have a Lee Pro 1000 set up for 45 ACP. Lotsa folks swear at these,
but I like mine. The primer system is fussy, though. Everything else works
great - and the powder measure is hands down the BEST I've ever used.
Very, very consistent.

Lots of opinions here, that's for sure! :D

Your mileage may vary, and so forth and so on....

-Stretch
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Earl, I will lay in some of that Hornady One-shot. We sold a lot of it when I worked at Sportsman's, but never tried it myself.
I am such a low-volume reloader that a dab of Imperial on my finger tip usually does the trick.
I need to take another look at the Lee turret press. I just have an old Rockchucker on my bench.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by samsi »

Chris83716 wrote:I came to the same solution as Griff. Two Dillion 550's, one set for small primers and one set for large primers. Swap out the shell plates and change tool head. About five minutes to get every thing changed and then load. I don't think I will ever wear one out and you can make a pile of ammo pretty fast.

Chris
Yep, I'm in the same camp. The only PITA with the 550 is swapping out the primer feed. I've had the small/large 550 pair since the '90's, although I don't run through the pistol ammo like I used to, so neither of them has produced a round of ammo in about 2 years. I primarily use a Rock Chucker these days, upgraded from my original Pacific C press that I bought used for $20 with 500 cast bullets, a carton of Winchester primers and a pound of 231. Yeah, that was a while ago...
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by JohndeFresno »

I received some e-mails from John Thor (RCBS Technical Support) suggesting that the shoulder bolt (center bolt which holds the shellplate) might need replacing, with another amazing offer for RCBS to replace or repair the whole Piggyback setup.

I'm corresponding with him with some photos for him to ID whether mine is a Piggyback 1 or 2, but have told him I don't know if I can qualify for this help since I applied Loctite Blue Threadlocker adhesive to the shoulder bolt to keep my .44 Mag Shellplate from walking out during reloading. Anyway, once again I am blown over by their support.
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Re: Revisiting Various Loading Presses

Post by Griff »

JohndeFresno wrote:Anyway, once again I am blown over by their support.
Yep, a couple of years ago during a visit to their place in Oroville, I discussed my issues with a 5-0-10 scale I purchased in 1973. They said to send it in, and if they couldn't fix it, they replace it. I reminded them that they no longer offered that scale, and they told me they'd upgrade it, if necessary.

Well, they couldn't, and they did exactly that, upgraded me to their 5-10 scale. Over the years they've replaced lock ring screws I've lost & a shell holder that broke. The scale and shell holder were the only items they wanted to see before replacing them. Since I have pretty much duplicates of everything I use regularly, I wasn't really inconvenienced. I guess that they only parts they won't warrantee are decapping pins!
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