Honey where's my hot 454 Casull Ammo and the .410 shotgun ?

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:53 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwKydDPY ... Ew&lf=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0MYG_-X ... ure=relmfu

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:35 am

There are those that can learn by reading... and those that can't. EVERY reloading manual worth it's salt has that admonishment! I strongly suspect that these two fall in the second category! And wondering why the velocity was only 1171fps... well duh! All the important energy went in blowing up the breach!

I loved the comment about "...the rifling is even gone."

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:36 am

Lot of interesting videos there.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:06 am

I guess we all need questions answered, just don't ask me to blow any of my guns up doing it.

CEMENTHEAD · Post by **CEMENTHEAD** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:27 am

well that was....ummmm....interesting

Tom

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:54 am

Hey, Bubba...hold my beer and watch THIS

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:00 pm

Stupid, just stupid.

Cliff · Post by **Cliff** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:58 pm

Hmm, an auto ejecting shotgun. Some duct tape, glue and a hinged bolt would fix that right up. (NOT)

earlmck · Post by **earlmck** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:14 pm

At least they were smart enough to touch her off from a distance. It's good they answered the question: just doesn't seem to be any question I was asking. Range sweep-up powder? Sheeesh!

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:36 pm

I got this-here Unique at a garage sale....sheeeet, a case-full outta make my deer gun shoot real hard, so do yew want to try sum?

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:43 pm

The question seems to have been, "can we do something incredibly stupid, and to the farthest extremity, and still survive..?" I assume the answer to be Yes -- for a moment, at least...
The "experiment," which cannot be precisely duplicated, is valid for the present circumstance, and nothing more..
It is a mixture of unknown quantities and qualities, put together haphazardly at best, and serves no purpose beyond morbid entertainment.. Apparently, them Southern Boys do take notions, every once in a while..
Under other circumstances, they might have assumed that being "OK" with one or two test rounds, it must be good for the long haul.. That assumption could well have proved fatal, or at least seriously injurious to anyone actually firing old "Nine Lives..."
FWIW, both the .454 Casull and the .460 S&W will chamber in the Taurus Judge, and the S&W version of the same.. That does NOT mean that firing those cartridges in those guns is by any means safe, or recommended..
Back when I was much younger, we used to shoot .45 Colt rounds in my buddy's .410 single shot..we fired Winchester and Remington lead-bullet factory ammo, or reloads made with those same slugs.. Accuracy was literally hit-or-miss, especially beyond about 40 yards, but it gave us something to play with.. Just to be further contrary, we shot .410 loads in his '73 Springfield Trapdoor, with disappointing results as well...
There really in nothing New under the Sun...

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:51 pm

Beyond all the comments about the inadvisability I found it interesting that it took those other rounds and that they did not distort the choke measurements.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:59 pm

Bullets are more ductile and plastic than barrel steel...

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:32 am

Buck Elliott wrote:FWIW, both the .454 Casull and the .460 S&W will chamber in the Taurus Judge, and the S&W version of the same.. That does NOT mean that firing those cartridges in those guns is by any means safe, or recommended...

I'd wondered if they would chamber. A .454 in one of those sounds bad enough, but a .460 in in one of those pistols sounds like nothing less than a grenade waiting to happen.

Oly

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:39 am

BlaineG wrote:Hey, Bubba...hold my beer and watch THIS

Some good points guys!

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:00 pm

I'm speechless.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:39 pm

The real danger here is that they imply that you can put factory rounds into a 410 and it won't blow... they had to "overload" it to get it to "pop".

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:52 pm

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:44 pm

The .454 Casull and the .460 S&W are both 65,000 psi cartridges, as per SAAMI.. Neither round is commonly loaded to maximum pressure, by the mainstream ammo makers. Most top loads are in the 50-55,000 psi range, in deference to double action revolvers and their ejection peculiarities..
I would like to know what the pressurewas that finally destroyed the little .410.. Obviously, there was sufficient material in the breech end of the barrel, but it must have lacked strength, or it would not have exploded..
Bore restriction, just ahead of the chamber would contribute to increased chamber pressure, maybe to catastrophic degree. Once past the forcing cone, the bullet was no longer .45 caliber, but .410" or so. It would take little energy to squeeze the slug down to pass through the choke at the muzzle.
A factory-equivalent load with a 300 gr hard-cast slug exited at 1700 fps from a 7 1/2" Freedom Arms revolver, and at 2100 fps from a 24" rifle barrel. The clain of 1700 - 1800 fps from their scrounged components seems reasonable, whatever the pressure might have been, even with a 405 gr. Bullet.
Sure would be interesting to know Exactly what components went into thos heavy-bullet load in the shotgun...

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:03 am

45 grs of miscellaneous pistol powder with some likely Bullseye or the like could really run the pressures up.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:14 am

Blaine,
I think I recognise those guys

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:19 am

What they were trying to say is..... NEVER SHOOT ANOTHER MANS RELOADS!

Everybody here knows, when you sweep up powder off the floor you have to sift through it and sort the different textures of powder before you reload it!

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:42 am

COSteve wrote:Stupid, just stupid.

my thoughts exactly--why people want to post their stupidity so the whole world can see is way beyond me...those two are dangerous...i love the second vid where the old guy with the beard tries to do an intelligent postmodem...dah... :(

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:13 am

What I'm curious about is "range sweepings".

I've never found much, if any, powder when sweeping up a range... certainly not a whole .454 case full. Most of what I get is dirt, microfine lead and carbon.

It's not logical. Fast powder burns too fast to have ejecta, and slow powder that will eject unburned won't have the kind of pressure spike (especially when mixed with floor dirt) that would pop a breech like that.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:36 am

I would like to see them conduct their tests incrementally on 45 Colt SAA or clone and see what it takes to blow one of those.

mikld · Post by **mikld** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:46 am

Well, I learned something. Or mebbe not. I lived in L.A. for a long time and 90% of my shooting was done indoors, from 1987 to 2009, and I have never heard of "range powder". I didn't see anyone reloading at the range, so how does powder get spilled on the range floor? Is it common for shooters to disassemble some of thier ammo and pour it on the floor? Is this an offering to the "Range Gods"? The outdoor range I shot at was clean (Angeles Shooting Range), and the only thing you could sweep up was dirt...

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:54 am

I have some experience with this although I was NEVER tempted to load cartridges with it.
Indoor ranges that see a lot of traffic, hence a lot of shooting; even scheduled cleaning is periodic, as the range is in use most of the day.
There is a lot of unburned powder that accumulates from normal shooting.
When the range is swept, this powder is swept up and needs to be disposed of.
This leads to all sorts of horrid mischief, as evidenced by the videos.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:21 am

Mescalero wrote:I have some experience with this although I was NEVER tempted to load cartridges with it.
Indoor ranges that see a lot of traffic, hence a lot of shooting; even scheduled cleaning is periodic, as the range is in use most of the day.
There is a lot of unburned powder that accumulates from normal shooting.
When the range is swept, this powder is swept up and needs to be disposed of.
This leads to all sorts of horrid mischief, as evidenced by the videos.

I used to clean our indoor pistol range in MC and don't recall unburned powder in the mess. Lots of lead dust/dirt but no unburned powder - even after IDPA practice.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:16 am

Here's an interesting question though:

SAAMI for the .410 is 13500psi.

SAAMI for the .444 is 42000psi.

The Marlin .410 and Rossi Rio Grande .410 are essentially un-rifled .444s with a .410 bore.

The Marlin & Rossi action/chamber should, simply because it wouldn't make sense to have a special line of lower-standard parts, be therefore able to take pressures up to 42K - i.e 3x as much as SAMMI .410 loads.

This gives the .410 reloader MUCHO more flexibility in what can be reloaded for the gun(s) over a "standard" break action or pump...

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:01 am

They have a gun rental system and no brass can be picked up, the brass comes out of there by the 5 gallon bucket full.
A lot more unburnt powder in those cases than people realise.

93marshooter · Post by **93marshooter** » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:05 am

These guys are having to much fun!!! "Don't do this at home." stuff. Sweeping up range powder is asking for trouble.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:24 am

Old Ironsights.....

Don't assume too much!

Suffice it to say that a .410 -- of any persuasion -- is built for and intended to fire .410 ammunition.. Yes, a few of us got away with other things, in our old .410s, but whether by dumb luck or calculated risk, we lived to tell about it, although we should probably have kept silent on the issue...

Just because we Can (or did..), doesn't mean we Should...

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:07 am

All noted precautions in mind, or not, what this would seem to show is that a 410 will fire and digest a variety of ammo. if you look at an H&R single shot 12, 20 and 410 gauge you will see that whatever steel they are using is capable of withstanding shotgun pressures with 12 gauge thickness. When you get down to the 410 the walls of the chamber are very thick. Not a surprise looking at this that it would take a 444. For the pistol rounds it would seem that due to the chamber length the pressures would quickly fall and likely never get near what they are loaded to in a pistol. The barrel may be a different story but we do see that 45 bullets will go through a .387 choke without changing it. All this in hand and me not being in the firearms business and just a lay observer, it would appear that if you have a good new single shot 410 - push come to shove as a lot like to think of - you have a firearm capable of using a variety of ammo that would certainly be useful to the front door and maybe beyond. And of course, standard disclaimers apply - taking your life and limb in your own hands. Caveat - don't try using 45 grains of "range powder" and a heavy bullet.

Interesting for the survivalist. Let's see here - I have a lot of 45 Colt ammo a few 444s a 410 and I am out of 410 shells.

Now let's see - will those 44s work too????

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:30 am

bubba is alive and well

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:44 am

Buck!

I hear ya----
I know better than to try that task like the butt-bro-brothers tried above.

But this next one (below)their trying(shouldn't that be a little safer??

)Listen what the "bigin" says after first firing(think he thinks hes ready to go hunting with it(like its nothing,ready for shoulder mount??)

(Them guys should be on our missile defense systems.(bet the other countries wouldn't mess with us then)??

GUYS___I AM SPEECHLESS )thats it I am ordering some more old singles.(what brand was that last one)?

and---use the white tape.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZaK7D4XVo8

AND------------------Wonder if they can white tape up this next round for my old H&R 10ga ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrImp-ek3bI

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:51 am

The .50 in a 12 gauge is no big trick.. Because of the difference in diamters (.515 vs. .729") and the resultant expansion ratio, there is little danger in the combination.. Various .45s introduced into a .41 caliber bore reverses the equation.. The malleability/plasticity of the bullet material is the only (questionable) saving grace..

The .577 video just shows what happens when you introduce an extremely powerful rifle to a group of Dress-wearing, oil-rich morons, under the direction of a sadistic, psychotic cameraman, with the complicity of formerly-duped idiots.. The poor rifle took an undeserved beating, but watching the clip was both entertaining and disturbing... Maybe we can conquer the entire OPEC cabal by "allowing" all its invested leaders to fire 100 rounds (no cheating) from the rifle, in the space of a couple hours !!!!

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:56 am

Well, I find my old Marlin 410 will chamber my 44 Special reloads but will not let my 45 Colt reloads in nor will it chamber a fired 45 Colt case. The bore on this one measures .400 at the muzzle. The 44 Spl. reloads go in as if made for it and have no apparent play.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:03 pm

I'm thinking there may be more .410s that Won't chamber .45 Colts than those that Will.. Any .410 should accept .444 or .44 Mag/Spl rounds.. the .444 case is a direct descendent of the brass .410 shell..

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Buck, could you make slug rounds with 444 cases?

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:15 pm

In short: yes..
The only limiting factor might possibly be rim thickness, but that is easily fixed, if it should come up..
You could also make "regular" shot loads as well.