What controlled expansion 30-30 - more ?s

[rjohns94]

Factory ammo do you recommend for large black bear?

Picked up some Remington core lokt today. Soft points and hollow points. Which one for bear? Does it matter? Should I be looking for the soft points? Avoiding hollow points for this purpose?

As a side note, my 100 year old semi deluxe model 94 takedown rifle came today and I'm thrilled. Will be at the range tomorrow.

[BC in TN]

Remington Core-Lokt

[rjohns94]

I hear that rem cor loot is recommended a lot

Grizzly hawk FP?

Others?

[JerryB]

Remington Core-Lokt, never used it on a bear of any kind but it will flat put a deer DRT. I would not worry about using it for bear.

[BigSky56]

Federal loads a 170 speer FP and a 170 nosler partition RN, for big bears you could even go to a HCGC they would penetrate . danny

[336A]

Factory ammo do you recommend for large black bear?

Whatever shoots best in your particular rifle.

[jlchucker]

Remington Coreloct or Winchester Powerpoint.

[6pt-sika]

Fedral I think used to or still does make a 30-30 load using the Nosler 170 Partition . While I never fired any of the factory rounds I have loaded the Nosler 170 Partition RN for a couple of the 30-30's I had in the past .
Same can be said for the Barnes 30 cal 150 garin bullet they made for the 30-30 lever rifles .

I liked both those bullets .

For factory I liked the Winchester 170 grain SilverTip . And to be honest I liked the ST's for nothing more then nostalgic reasons

[Blaine]

I have zero experience with these, but, if I were to hunt a bear with the 94, I'd be temped to use these:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=222

[Hobie]

I think 170 gr. whatever will work. It is all, or was, used around here with no complaints except from poor shots.

[JohndeFresno]

86er, Please weigh in here!

[rjohns94]

What I read was strong construction, controlled expansion. Barnes, hawk bullets, core lokt, nosler partition are all recommended. The ST is not one of those type bullets and though great for deer, would not be a good general bullet to use for large black bear. I like the look of the buffalo 190 gr hawks. Same velocity as other factory 170 gr bullets. I am guessing the best solution is obtain several and see how they shoot. Will be a 26 inch barrel 94 I will be using on at least one of the days. I plan on taking several rifles on the trip and rotate them each day. One side by side, one over under, the '94, and my BP sharps in .54 cal. I specify large black bear cause I won't shoot a small one since I have taken a #700 black bear before, it will have to be a real nice bear or a neat color to make me pull the trigger. I plan on lots of watching. Lol

[rjohns94]

Btt with another question

[.45colt]

100 Years ago the Savage .303 was a state of the art shooting machine shooting 190gr slugs just under 2000fps. all the reports were high on penetration and killing power.some things never change and You could Guess which one I would take along.

[86er]

170 Nosler Partition. I use them in 30WCF and 300 Savage.

[t.r.]

This red stag was clobbered with my 30-30 and Winchester ammo. Two bullets penetrated the chest and exited into the snow. Last bullet (recovered) entered the frontal chest, penetrated full length of the body, and lodged against pelvic bone.

This is exceptional performance for a so called "plain" soft tip bullet.

Good bear hunting to you!
TR

[cshold]

I’m not making a recommendation using these for bear or anything else.

‘BUT’ I do not hesitate one minute to use them around here for our PA. Deer.

Sometime you get a chance Mike, take a box of these to the range and give
them a go. I’ve found these to be much more accurate than anything else I’ve
run through my 94.

I’ve more than once impressed some 30-30 model 94 scoffers at the rifle range
with my 100 yrd. results. (love it when that happens )

[86er]

When in doubt or just looking for real world performance I often turn to my own little booklet "1000 Tags Filled". There are no opinions there, just facts. Searching the electronic version by caliber and species we can examine what 30-30 has actually done on bears with different bullets. Here's the summary:

2 - 150 grain unknown brand. Range to bear = 20 and 25 yards. Travelled after hit = zero. Shot placement= one head and one heart.

5-150 Remington Core Lokt. Range to bear = 16 to 28 yards. one took 3 shots and one took 2 shots. The others required only one. Bears ran zero to 100 yards after being hit. About 1/2 the bullets exited while 1/2 did not.

1 - 150 grain Buffalo Bore. 19 yds to bear. 4 shots and bear went 55 yards. No bullets exited.

3- 150 Winchester. 2 shots, 1 shot, 2 shots respectively. Bear ran 15, 30 and 65 yards. One was a head shot. None of the bullets exited.

2- 170 Federal Nosler Partition. Range to bears 20 and 33 yards. 1 ran zero with one shot and one ran 90 yards after being hit 3 times. No bullets exited.

2 - 170 Remington. Range to bears 24 and 31 yards. One shot each. One ran 40 the other 50 yds. Shoulder shots. Both exited.

3- 170 Winchester. 22, 23 and 28 yards to bears. 2 shots each bear. They went 30,45 and 25 yards respectively. One was a heart shot. Two bullets exited.


Taking this snapshot into account it would seem the best 30-30 ammo for black bear at close range is the 170 grain Remington Core Lokt, and a head shot or shoulder shot would be best.

BTW - if you evaluate by caliber for bears, the 35 Remington is the clear winner with 200 grain core lokt. 98% one shot kill with 80% going less than 20 yards after being hit. If you're wondering what gun to take for a certain hunt or what caliber to buy for a certain species this booklet can point you in the right direction.

This little booklet is great for assessing questions like you asked. If anyone would like a copy I can send you the electronic/searchable version for $7 or the hard copy for $11 if you PM me.

[Ji in Hawaii]

I have zero experience with these, but, if I were to hunt a bear with the 94, I'd be temped to use these:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=222

190 grains sure sounds appealing for big bahrs.


Press Release for Buffalo Bore Heavy 30-30
Heavy 30-30 Winchester Ammo - 190 gr. JFN @ 2100 fps (1860 ft.lbs.) - 20 Round Box

Buffalo Bore is introducing a truly Heavy 30-30 Winchester loading. This new load utilizes a 190gr. custom Hawk bullet and gives the venerable 30-30 here-to-for unrealized power and is designed so that the person who owns a 30-30 can now reliably kill elk or moose sized game. The 30-30 can now be carried as a defensive tool in grizzly country and will be much more effective in stopping a grizzly attack than any other 30-30 ammunition in the world. This heavy 30-30 load is not designed for deer, although it will kill deer and if you line them up right, it will kill three or four deer with one shot……….
The custom 190gr. hawk bullet is designed with a harder core and thicker than normal jacket, so the expansion is minimal, thus insuring very deep penetration which is needed to break large bones and destroy organs deep inside large game animals. This load generates an unreal 2100 fps from normal 20 inch carbines—this is the type of velocity that the ordinary 170gr. 30-30 loads generate, but again, we are using a 190gr. bullet.
Check the below real world velocities from my personal stock, over-the-counter firearms—truly amazing.

2071 fps -- Marlin Model 336 20 inch saddle ring carbine circa 1950’s
2061 fps -- Win. Model 94 20 inch carbine circa 1980’s
2075 fps -- Win. Model 94 20 inch carbine circa 1953
2116 fps -- Win. Model 94 20 inch carbine circa 1963
2172 fps -- Marlin model 336A 24 inch carbine circa 1940’s
2146 fps -- Win. Model 94 20 inch carbine circa 1980’s
2020 fps -- Win. Model 94AE 16 inch Trapper carbine circa 1992
1983 fps -- Savage 99 26 inch rifle circa 1917 - Not a Typo

Note that the longest barrel gave the slowest velocity and even the short 16 inch Winchester trapper model gives faster speeds than the 26 inch Savage 99 rifle, which shows that barrel length is not always the sole indicator of velocities a firearm will generate.

Buffalo Bore always uses stock over-the-counter- firearms that give real world velocities. Other ammunition companies normally use laboratory test barrels which give much higher velocities than stock firearms. We at Buffalo Bore see this long established practice as misleading to the consumer.

This 30-30 loading (Item 28A/20) is safe to use in ANY/ALL 30-30 chambered firearms that are in normal operating condition—no exceptions, no need to “double check” with us.

[Canuck Bob]

Ji, that is an outstanding post. Appartently Hawk will custom make a 32 Special bullet in this weight range. The report noted it was a special order and subject to a few boxes. I spotted a few posts on another forum about a guy who had no problem stabilizng a 190 grain Hawk bullet in his slow twist 32 Special. A google heavy bullet 32 Special search will find it.

I'd have to import the things and the price would be stupid high. I'm going to carefully work with 8MM partition bullets or heavy Woodleighs.

Does that Buffalo stuff show unusual pressure signs?
Ji, it reads like you are associated with Buffalo. Is that correct?

2100 fps in 20 inch barrels is some serious punch within 50 paces and moose worthy as far as I can shoot with a peep. There was that video that floated here awhile ago about a big Alaska moose dropped by a 30-30 and Buffalo's 190 grainer. It did the job, of course one video ain't science but it wasn't one of those staged long range shots so popular these days on TV.

[rjohns94]

Ji's post showed the info from buffalo bore's website which BlaineG posted earlier. My rifle is a 26 inch barrel. I plan on getting some of those and see how they shoot. I ink they would be the bomb on bears!,

[86er]

I did a pretty thorough test on the Buffalo Bore 190's a year ago ...

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ffalo+bore

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ffalo+bore

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... ffalo+bore

[FWiedner]

When I hunt with any of my .30-30's, all I use is the Winchester 170gr PP.

They'll punch straight through a deer and darn near take a pig's head off with a well-placed neck-shot.

IMO, they fly true and hit hard.

[rjohns94]

Thanks Joe I'm excited to try them at the range and on a bear

[Canuck Bob]

Great work Joe. The Speer was a surprise. No slouch at all for a cup and core bullet.

[Ji in Hawaii]

Ji, it reads like you are associated with Buffalo. Is that correct?

My apologies Bob If I gave that impression, no I just cut and pasted from the website which Blaine earlier posted. I have only shot their 45-70 ammo and I'm very impressed with it.

[Canuck Bob]

Ji, it reads like you are associated with Buffalo. Is that correct?

My apologies Bob If I gave that impression, no I just cut and pasted from the website which Blaine earlier posted. I have only shot their 45-70 ammo and I'm very impressed with it.

No apology necessary. I should have put two and two together.

[CEMENTHEAD]

Mike the Buffalo Bore load is good. I like to add Remington 170 Core Lokts as well. My family has used them up to cows and smaller bull elk.

Have fun, Tom