When aircraft had style plus just cool aircraft

samb · Post by **samb** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:55 am

Picture taken about 6 months before I was checked out on this DC-3. At the time I was flying a Cessna 206, out of Dawson City, Yukon.

Here is a picture of my first flying job with Bonanza Aviation's C-206.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:16 am

Booger Bill wrote:Griff do you mean varga kachina? The old moressey shin? Looked like a miniture T-6? I really wanted one of them! A dealer had them in santa paula years ago. How lucky you were! I doubt if I could fit in one though. Didnt they have a 150 hp lycombing 0320?
They were tri cycle gear. I think they planned on makeing a taildragger. But I belive they went out of business back then?

Bill that was me, and yes I mis-remembered, it was the kachina. Yes, looked like a miniature T-6. A really fun plane to fly. I don't remember the power plant. It wasn't underpowered, but it wasn't fast either. Unlike Dad, I enjoy slow flight.

I don't recall the exact paint scheme, but here's what the plane looked like:

Thanks for catching my memory error.......

Regards,
Grizz

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:06 am

you guys would love it here in port orange florida....
Behind my development...there is a flyin/golfing community called spruce creek
and there is a small airforce living there.....WWI, WWII vintage planes...
jets, float planes, ...you name it someone in there may have one....
Every saturday morning they all line up and take off to go to brunch somewhere....
and they love to fly in formation...
A few nascar guys live there....John Travolta used to live there....

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:45 am

We use to go for $50 hamburgers. Now they must be $500s!

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:08 pm

Grizz wrote:@ C. Cash

re the Varga plant

Dad had a Varga Katrina for a while. I got to back seat fly it in a major windstorm one time. Stick airplane, very easy to feel the control surface inputs. We flew it to Bellingham and Dad did his usual grease it on landing with a heavy duty crosswind. He always said that for him the hardest part of flying was knowing when he was back on the ground.

Thanks for boosting the memories

Grizz

You bet Grizz. A neat little airplane indeed. We leased or owned one and my brother flew it constantly, dragging me along. Did alot of stalls in one of those...very fun!
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20p ... /varga.htm

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:25 pm

I always wanted one of these too.

Grumman Goose

Satisfy my lust for classic boats and planes in one fell swoop.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:05 pm

Ji

that was my favorite ride in Alaska... the hotshot bush pilots eventually cracked them all up. I often got the second best seat and it's always a thrill. good times and great memories.... thanks

olyinaz · Post by **olyinaz** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:41 pm

Speaking of flying...

http://www.hulu.com/watch/231278/saturd ... lly-elaine

Best,
Oly

Bis · Post by **Bis** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:28 pm

Some neat old birds.
I was lucky, being a recip. aircraft mech in the USAF in the late 60s I got to work on all the old birds befor they were mouth balled. Started out on a C47, then U3A, T29, O1's, C7A, HU16, C119 and last a C124. All in 4 years.
Neat pic of the Super Constellation. The saying in the Air Force at the time was that they would not allow a pilot over 35 fly one. The thinking was that a pilot over 35 could not handle 3 pieces of tail at one time

gak · Post by **gak** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:46 pm

My recollection is that the Air Force version of the Constellation was the C-121. We had a few at our mostly-fighter base in Japan. Wasn't a "Connie" Eisenhower's Air Force One? (Edit: looked it up--yes

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:55 pm

My dad while in New Guinea flew a mission with the Navy "Black Cats" PBY Squadron attacking a Japanese base at night and coming home on one engine, and no radio they being shot out by Jap AA fire. He had quite the adventure, and a deep respect for the pilots and crew of the "Black Cats". A model of a Black PBY still hangs from his old bedroom ceiling today which reminded him of this time.
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/contents.htm

gak · Post by **gak** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:44 pm

Friends Call Me Ji wrote:My dad while in New Guinea flew a mission with the Navy "Black Cats" PYB Squadron attacking a Japanese base at night and coming home on one engine, and no radio they being shot out by Jap AA fire. He had quite the adventure, and a deep respect for the pilots and crew of the "Black Cats". A model of a Black PBY hangs from his old bedroom ceiling which reminded him of this time.

Those guys sure had the "right stuff"!

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:00 am

Spartan 7W Executive
The most popular and well-known aircraft produced by the Spartan Aircraft Company during the late 1930s and early 1940s. Designed for the wealthy.
The interior of the 7W was large and spacious featuring 18" of slide-back seat room for front-seat passengers, arm rests, ash trays, dome lighting, deep cushions, cabin heaters, ventilators, extensive soundproofing, large windows, and interior access to the 100 lb capacity luggage compartment.

I'll expound what brought this thread on later...

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:04 am

I love that spartan. They had or have a restored one on display at the EAA museum at oshkosh.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:54 am

my b.i.l. swift.I got to fly it a couple of times.really nice acft.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:59 am

Pete, I heard storys many years ago warning about getting into a flat spin etc, whats the skinny on that?

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:03 pm

not a problem in a helicopter

ask one of those fixed wing guys.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:17 pm

My current dream aircraft a Pitbull Autogyro: http://pitbullrotorcraft.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfh8InsLxWA

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:26 pm

This Littlewing Autogyro a close second: http://www.littlewingautogyro.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_xNOuNyCHE

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:51 pm

Something about aircooled radial engine that gives a plane added class...

A radial engined Kitfox also a thing of beauty and function: http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97dO-pq0 ... re=related

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:57 pm

Booger Bill wrote:Pete, I heard storys many years ago warning about getting into a flat spin etc, whats the skinny on that?

In general or regarding a particular aircraft?

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 2:57 pm

Friends Call Me Ji wrote:My current dream aircraft a Pitbull Autogyro: http://pitbullrotorcraft.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfh8InsLxWA

It's the cowling, isn't it?

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:12 pm

well if your in a helicopter and going into a flat spin.
1.unbuckle your harness
2.bend over
3.kiss your aZZ goodbye,you just lost a tail rotor

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:34 pm

What about auto-rotation? I thought that was the drill if the tail rotor went cattywampus (or MIA)?

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:59 pm

lose a tailrotor and your going to spin.auto rotate well maybe if you have enough alt. but it isn't going to be pretty.I saw a 58 go in not 100 meters away.the first 58 they brought back in a deuce in a half with room left over.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:25 pm

txpete wrote:the first 58 they brought back in a deuce in a half with room left over.

Ouch...

I'm going to hijack my own thread for a second because that reminds me of a story. I worked on commo equipment at Division level and there were a couple of Aviation units we supported (2/17CAV, 1-101 through 6-101 and someone else, maybe 160th SOAR?).

One of the Blackhawk units brought me a radio that looked like it had been kicked out at altitude then drug down 10 miles of bad road. Being my usual smart-alec self, I commented to the effect that there better be a good damage statement for it. I was informed (much more politely than I deserved BTW) that it came out of a crashed Blackhawk. A couple of weeks prior, a couple of BH pilots decided to take their wives out for a ride (and maybe a kid or two, it's been almost 15 years ago so the details are fuzzy). Someone decided to hot dog the take off and they failed to clear a tree line. IIRC only one person made it out. The radio in that bird was the one they brought me. I felt oh, about this tall....

Then there was the trooper who cut his pack loose while still too high during a jump. The cord securing the pack to him failed and the pack (and all it contained) augered in from a couple hundred feet. That radio was a mess as well but he was OK.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:28 pm

Found this...

ArcticGoose · Post by **ArcticGoose** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:22 pm

Grizz,
I'm not sure I'm a "hotshot bushpilot" but, we havent "cracked up" all the Grumman Gooses here in Alaska. I flew them out of Dutch Harbor for five years and were still running them out there today. Other then the Beech Stagerwing, it's my favorite airplane to fly. Just something right about an airplane and water. I'll try to dig up some pictures to add to the thread.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:32 pm

awp101 wrote:
txpete wrote:the first 58 they brought back in a deuce in a half with room left over.
Ouch...

I'm going to hijack my own thread for a second because that reminds me of a story. I worked on commo equipment at Division level and there were a couple of Aviation units we supported (2/17CAV, 1-101 through 6-101 and someone else, maybe 160th SOAR?).

One of the Blackhawk units brought me a radio that looked like it had been kicked out at altitude then drug down 10 miles of bad road. Being my usual smart-alec self, I commented to the effect that there better be a good damage statement for it. I was informed (much more politely than I deserved BTW) that it came out of a crashed Blackhawk. A couple of weeks prior, a couple of BH pilots decided to take their wives out for a ride (and maybe a kid or two, it's been almost 15 years ago so the details are fuzzy). Someone decided to hot dog the take off and they failed to clear a tree line. IIRC only one person made it out. The radio in that bird was the one they brought me. I felt oh, about this tall....

Then there was the trooper who cut his pack loose while still too high during a jump. The cord securing the pack to him failed and the pack (and all it contained) augered in from a couple hundred feet. That radio was a mess as well but he was OK.

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:34 pm

On that flat spin question I asked---, I only heard the cautions in regards to the globe swift. Something about the tail getting blanked out. (Probley the elevator?)

http://www.rowleycorvette.com/swift/avi ... sumer.html

Lawyer Daggit · Post by **Lawyer Daggit** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:07 am

Little known fact- because of difficulty getting aircraft from the UK (Spitfire and Hurricane) and planes from the US because of their contracts supplying the UK, Australia, prior to Pearl Harbour almost bought zero's.

Ours would have carried armour to protect pilots. It would have been interesting to know how armoured Australian birds performed against unarmoured Jap ones, as Japan did not provide their crews with armour,

Lawyer Daggit · Post by **Lawyer Daggit** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:11 am

Personally world war one planes are the ones that turn me on, although I like anything with a propellor.

I once consulted a psychologist and received past lives hypnosis- apparently I was a german airman in WW1 and died with a bullet to the head shortly after landing the bird. It would explain my love of early war planes and german history- including german guns.

Ji in Hawaii · Post by **Ji in Hawaii** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:58 am

CAC (Commonwealth Aircraft Company) Boomerang- Australia's only indigenous fighter of WWII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAC_Boomerang
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft ... aft_id=609

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:53 am

April 20, 2011 - Consolidated B-24 Liberator
Photo: February 1945: 494th Bomb Group returning to base from their bombing run on Caballo and Corregidor Islands Manila Bay.

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:09 am

Friends Call Me Ji wrote:Something about aircooled radial engine that gives a plane added class... :mrgreen:

A radial engined Kitfox also a thing of beauty and function: http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/

I'll see your Kitfox and raise you a Zenair STOL 701:

If I struck gold, this would be one of my first items to get crossed off the list.

http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo.html

a little camper that can land almost anywhere a dory can! go into the gold country in spring on floats after supplying fuel during the prior winter, then work the drainages after the snow melts. a real puddle-jumper.

:-) Grizz

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:12 am

Dang cool airplanes

Grizz · Post by **Grizz** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:24 am

I didn't see this one in the thread. The epitomy of gallantry, courage, and just plain won't quit.

This airplane had air superiority as soon as the test pilot signed off the first flight. Most upgrades had to do with horsepower and armaments, the airframe was just about spot-on from the drawing board.

And the stand the airmen made echoes the stand of the 300, well, 4300 actually, until the last day at Thermopolae.

http://www.aviation-history.com/superma ... tfire.html

Grizz

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:31 am

What amazed me with the very early planes was when they invented the interrupter so the bullets would go between the prop blades.

The Interrupter gear was not nearly as successful as the synchronizing gear as the method to shoot through a prop without shooting it to pieces during the early wars.

Interrupter vs. Synchronization methods. The interrupter stops the gun from firing while the synchronization method used a cam on the prop to fire the gun when the pilot was pulling the trigger. The pilot would squeeze the trigger, but the gun fired each round when the prop sweep engaged the cam, hence the prop fired the gun. This is the significant difference between the two methods. Albeit slight, there is a substantial difference. The Synchronizer took into account the common problems of variations in cartridge charges (hang fire rounds) and the Interrupter did not. Early use of the Interrupter also used propellers that had armor.

A true interrupter was better suited for turret mounted weapons when only on occassion would a part of the plane (such as a wing strut) would be in the line of fire.

The SYNCHRONIZATION GEAR, which is often INCORRECTLY referred to as "interrupter gear"; this is a triggering device attached to the machine gun armament of the early tractor-type fighter aircraft so that it would fire only at certain times. This allows the gun to fire through the arc of a spinning propeller without the bullets striking the blades. Introduced during the First World War, the gun synchronizer was a significant development in the history of air combat and remained in operational use until the Korean War when the widespread adoption of jet aircraft rendered them obsolete.

A true interrupter gear stopped the firing of the machine gun when some part of the aircraft was in the way. For much of the early history of the fighter aircraft this was limited to the propeller. This would change with the introduction of turret mounted armament firstly to the bomber aircraft and briefly to the fighter.

Though their effects were the same, there was a subtle difference between the concept of the interrupter and the synchronizer. A machine gun fitted with interrupter gear had the trigger normally enabled and the interrupter mechanism would disable the trigger when a propeller blade was in the way. A machine gun fitted with synchronization gear had the trigger normally disabled and the synchronizer mechanism would enable the trigger when the propeller was clear. In reality, the technical difficulties associated with reliably halting the firing of a Maxim-type machine gun meant that NO WORKING INTERRUPTER SYSTEM WAS EVER DEVELOPED — all successful implementations used the concept of synchronization.

The first victory using a synchronized gun-equipped fighter is believed to have occurred on 1 July 1915 when Lieutenant Kurt Wintgens of Feldflieger Abteilung 67, flying the Fokker M.5K/MG serial number 'E.5/15', forced down a French Morane-Saulnier Type L east of Lunéville. However the plane landed in French territory and the victory could not be confirmed. The first confirmed victory went to Max Immelmann flying a Fokker E.I on 1 August 1915, forcing down a Royal Flying Corps B.E.2c
Source(s):
http://tripatlas.com/Interrupter_gear
http://www.experiencefestival.com/interr…

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:39 am

I always thought the Vultee V1 was pretty cool looking in an Art Deco sort of way:

Aircraft logos were also pretty stylish in their own right:

North American Aviation:

CONsolidated Vultee AIRcraft:

Noah

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:10 am

Man, look at the drag caused by the windscreen on the Vultee V1

GonnePhishin · Post by **GonnePhishin** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:16 am

Here is one of my all time favorites:

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:46 pm

Friends Call Me Ji wrote:My dad while in New Guinea flew a mission with the Navy "Black Cats" PBY Squadron attacking a Japanese base at night and coming home on one engine, and no radio they being shot out by Jap AA fire. He had quite the adventure, and a deep respect for the pilots and crew of the "Black Cats". A model of a Black PBY still hangs from his old bedroom ceiling today which reminded him of this time.
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/blackcat/contents.htm

The Spanish Air Force had a couple of these they used for firefighting. Took a free ride in one. Once they had pumped the water onboard, I didn't think they had enough lake to get airborne. Got a picture of one somewhere, have to dig it out.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:50 pm

txpete wrote:well if your in a helicopter and going into a flat spin.
1.unbuckle your harness
2.bend over
3.kiss your aZZ goodbye,you just lost a tail rotor

Which is why I loved the Husky so much. Those counter rotating main rotors removed those sorts of problems. ON problem was rookie pilots would ocassionally manage to hit the rear vertical stabilizer with one of the rotors. Not pretty, but that usually happened close to the ground, so they generally just hit hard, and everyone walked away.

Bis · Post by **Bis** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:02 pm

My Dad's buddy was RAF WW1 fighter pilot. I had a chance to talk to him at my Dad's services. Neat guy to talk to. Shot himself down 3 times when the prop got out of sink. He said those birds had the glide path of a rock. When the prop goes you better find a flat place NOW. He died at 105 and left all his RAF stuff to a museum in San Diego.

RandyC · Post by **RandyC** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:50 pm

There's nothing like the sound of a radial engine coughing, sputtering and coming to life. Man, that is power.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:35 pm

Wow, I didn't expect this thread to take off (errr, so to speak) like it did. Certainly not 5 pages worth...

I've been a wingnut for as long as I can remember. OK, most of the time that means the past 48 hours but I can safely say my love affair with aviation goes back 35 of my 39 years. I grew up in the flight path of an international airport. This was the mid-70s so I remember the Flying Colors of Braniff and the Pan-Am 747s coming over the house along with the Delta DC8s and AA DC10s.

South of us was a Bell Helicopter test facility. I could tell a Huey from a Cobra from a JetRanger/OH58 without walking (or usually running) out of the house just by the blade slap. Dad says they also tested helo mounted MGs close to there (he could hear them). I don't remember that part (way too young then) but since it was a rural area at the time it wouldn't surprise me. We even saw the first test hops of the XV15 once it started shooting the pattern as well as the later V22.

Adjacent to the Bell facility was a small municipal airport. All manner of light aviation in sight due to the school there.

East of us was NAS Dallas. I don't remember seeing the Crusaders transiting from East to West but the other neighborhood wingnut has told me he does. I do remember the Phantoms and later birds very well though. If they were going to hit the burners, it was right around our neighborhood. They had a fair amount of altitude (to clear the international airport flightpath) but it was still noticeable.

Between us and NAS Dallas was another municipal airport. I couldn't see the flightpath from the house but if we had errands on the East side of town I was looking that way.

West of us was Carswell AFB. When the conditions were just right we could hear the 52s and F4s. If I had my bike in the right spot, I could see them with my binocs. If I was really lucky, I'd be at the mall close to there with my Grandmother and could see and hear the action much better than at home.

As you can see, I didn't have much of a chance.

Around second or third grade I found a book in the school library with a bunch of neat pictures. Nothing looked like the US stuff I'd seen so I had to take it home. I didn't know where Britain was nor why they were fighting the Germans (or why none of the pictures had any color

) but they had some really neat looking planes! I must have checked that Battle of Britain book out every other week. They probably had to re-bind it when I left the school. That book got me into the history part of the Dewey Decimal System, so now I was going between the technology and history sections.

Before long I had Mom taking me to the local library so I could find more books on aircraft. When I'd run out of books at that branch, we'd go to another for a few trips and on occasion we'd hit the main library. There were more than a few automotive books in the mix but more often than not it was aircraft or military history books following me home. Usually both.

Then I found books on guns. Holy cow! You mean I can get a book that covers guns, how and where they were used in military history AND aircraft at times? Well, sign me up!

From then on, it was all downhill.

My interests cycle fairly often. It might be firearms of some flavor today and traditional style hot rods next week. Maybe road rallying or knives. One thing that doesn't leave is aviation. The particular era of interest changes from time to time but it's always there.

Ji, I agree. Some of the best looking WWII birds were the radial engined Japanese designs. Very graceful in appearance but many times that grace only hid the fatal flaws: lack of armor and self sealing fuel tanks.

It's past my bedtime so this has probably started to ramble. If it has, my apologies, but this is one subject I can talk about all day long and well into the night. Heck, I didn't even touch on the model airplane addiction I had as a kid and only managed to finally kick about 10 years ago!

Booger Bill · Post by **Booger Bill** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:41 pm

I spent 1965 to 2,000 as a lockheed guard. I met most of our test pilots and other famous aviators. I learned to fly with a flying club that had mostly lockheed employee`s. I was present at the maiden flights of the L 10-11, YF-22 etc. I remember tony levier, fish salmon, gary powers, general weir, pete peterson, kelly johnson etc. It was pretty much a everyday thing and I miss a lot of it.
I was around the sr-71, U-2, P-3s, F 117, F-22, L-10-11, C-5As etc. Also the cheyanne helicopter and lots more. When I first started there was a old man that was still working as a supervisor in electronics. We got talking flying and I found he was a world war one pilot, showed me pictures of him back then and some home builts he had made. Many of our engineers were world war two pilots. One guy I flew with had flown mesquitos for england. Another old engineer flew for the luftwaffen. We had a rep for rolls royce that I got talking to. To make a long story short, I had a english girl friend that was a war orphan. Her father supposedly got killed flying a spitfire and her mother got killed by a bomb that fell short of the vickers plant. I mentioned it to him and he almost broke down. He knew of the incident and said he was up that day and the german plane got through his group!

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:01 am

http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/ ... /index.htm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... wlton.html

this had more to do with me getting into AVN than anything.we had a cabin at brome lake Quebec and I spent my summers there growing up.my grandfather took me to see this plane several times and that was over 50 years ago.
if you ever up that way go see it and yes they speak english

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:11 am

txpete wrote:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/201 ... wlton.html

A D.VII, nice!

I sort of backed into the WWI a/c bug. Reading up on WWII a/c led me to learning about WWII in general. The constant references to WWI being a leading cause of WWII meant I needed to learn about WWI. Of course I started with the air services and worked my way down to the ground you could say.

I'm still amazed by the sheer number of different a/c used by both sides. Since everyone was on a steep learning curve any new idea, however bizarre, was on the table to at least be discussed and maybe a handful built for evals (much like commercial a/c in the late 20s-early 30s which kicked this thread off). The adage coined then still generally holds true: If it looks good, it will fly good. It's not a 100% truism, but it's the way to bet.

One of my favorite WWI a/c is the Hanriot HD-1. This one was Charles Nungesser's for a time:

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:24 am

Without doubt, the DC3 is IMO the sleekest classic aircraft that ever flew:

Interestingly, I saw a TV documentary on the DC3 in 1988 while recuperating from a cholecystectomy. One of the talking heads made the statement that if the DC3 were submitted for an FAA airworthyness certification in 1988, it would have failed for not meeting safety requirements. Never mind that it was THE safest aircraft flying up until the jet age was well established.

A close runner-up is the Convair 580, shown here in Allegheny Airlines livery:

I grew up in western PA between two regional airports serviced by Allegheny, and the equipment flown from the 60s through the late 70s was the Convair 580 with its signature GM/Allison 501D13H turboprops and constant-speed four-bladed props, like the Lockheed P3 Orion. I flew frequently between PIT and either DUJ or BFD, and there's a good chance that I once flew in N5837.

Noah