Winchester/Miroku Model 71

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:49 pm

For those of you who don't mind, can grudgingly accept or will alter the lawyer-mandated safety mechanisms on a Miroku levergun, here are some short videos, one featuring a new Winchester Model 71 just introduced at the Shot Show (along with some other guns):

http://www.winchesterguns.com/library/a ... asp?id=292

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:04 pm

Who would have guessed...a new Winchester Model 71!!! Looks like Winchester will continue to make .348 ammo!

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:09 pm

mod71alaska,

Yep. You'd have to think that this will at least extend the production life of the .348 cartridge.

WinM71 · Post by **WinM71** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:12 pm

Will these, indeed, be "lawyered up"? Wonder what the price will be.

RKrodle · Post by **RKrodle** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:21 pm

mod71alaska wrote:Who would have guessed...a new Winchester Model 71!!! Looks like Winchester will continue to make .348 ammo!

Wow, factory ammo. I've never shot any factory ammo out of my 71. I have some old stuff but I've never seen current manufactured ammo.

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:26 pm

WinM71,

You can see a tang safety in the video.

Lawyer Daggit · Post by **Lawyer Daggit** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:35 pm

Looks a nice rifle. I might start counting my penny's with the hope that a few come down under.

Shame they are not making the carbine though.

Lawyer Daggit · Post by **Lawyer Daggit** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:03 am

Other thoughts:

1. Will they sell the excellent tang mounted peep sight as an accessory. PLEEEZ MR BROWNING PLEEEZ.

What impact will this rifle- if built to traditional high Miroku 'Jap Browning' standards, have on the price of North Haven originals?

Sorry- I don't mean to side line the stream but these questions appear on topic.

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:37 am

Winchester has a coupla interesting offerings there...!!!
PLEEEZE tell me that "winchester.com" thing on the bbl. peels off...!!!????
I'm another who has never fired factory ammo outta my (Win. original) M71, and don't plan to so I have no dog in that pile. I suppose some fresh factory ammo might make for more reloadable brass showing up...so it's a good thing for us casters.
Thanks for the update, and congratulations to Winchester...!!

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:25 am

Never saw this one coming

Hope winchester makes more ammo, makes it in large enough quantities and at a reasonable price. Hope the gun makes it and sticks around awhile

big bear · Post by **big bear** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:17 am

Lawyer Daggit wrote:Other thoughts:

1. Will they sell the excellent tang mounted peep sight as an accessory. PLEEEZ MR BROWNING PLEEEZ.

What impact will this rifle- if built to traditional high Miroku 'Jap Browning' standards, have on the price of North Haven originals?

Sorry- I don't mean to side line the stream but these questions appear on topic.

Has the production of Browning and new Winchester 1886 rifles affected the price of old 1886 rifles? I don't think so.
New production means more brass and maybe new projectiles (like Barnes X bullets) becoming available. Don't know that I would want one with the safety junk on it though

SJPrice · Post by **SJPrice** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:26 am

Great news for all 348 Winchester fans. I still prefer the Browning approach from Mirokou without the safety and RB hammer over the Winchester lawyered up versions, but new life for the 71 and the 348 is a good thing. New ammo and loading components. This should be fun.

Maybe even some gummy tipped pointy bullets to try and experiment with and discard as a continued bad idea.

Okay, but the renewed life for the 71 and 348 is a good thing!

chadbr · Post by **chadbr** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:57 am

Wow - at least 3 guns I want there... have to save my pennies

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:14 pm

Sorry, no false "safeties" for me; my original 71 still works as it should.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:48 pm

I'm not sure how fast those will move once people see that a case of ammo costs nearly what the rifle does.

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:35 pm

I do hope that they are released and that 348 ammo and reloading components become more available.

Dave B

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:57 pm

Why do you figure he went to the trouble to point out that the fore-end cap was made of steel? Do you think they thought long and hard about making it out of plastic? I wonder if they tried to use plastic for the buttplate and fore-end cap and the Japanese at Miroku balked.

Maybe Miroku didn't want to taint their reputation for quality.

Do you think anyone from the group that handles Winchester lever-action product decisions ever stops by here? I hate to say it, but I'd bet they don't even know this place exists.

What happens if the Winchester brand people that make rifle decisions forget to talk to the other corporation that makes Winchester brand ammunition and they don't have .348 WCF on the shelves when the rifles come out? I've only ever ordered .348 over the internet. The last time I saw an actual box on a retail shelf I think it was the Browning stuff back around 1990. Of course, there's not much around here requiring the .348's power. Maybe the stuff is falling off the shelves up in Alaska still.

Wow, for some reason I've got a dismal outlook about this. I guess it's better than no 71 at all.

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:09 pm

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:Why do you figure he went to the trouble to point out that the fore-end cap was made of steel? Do you think they thought long and hard about making it out of plastic? I wonder if they tried to use plastic for the buttplate and fore-end cap and the Japanese at Miroku balked. Maybe Miroku didn't want to taint their reputation for quality.

Do you think anyone from the group that handles Winchester lever-action product decisions ever stops by here? I hate to say it, but I'd bet they don't even know this place exists.

What happens if the Winchester brand people that make rifle decisions forget to talk to the other corporation that makes Winchester brand ammunition and they don't have .348 WCF on the shelves when the rifles come out? I've only ever ordered .348 over the internet. The last time I saw an actual box on a retail shelf I think it was the Browning stuff back around 1990. Of course, there's not much around here requiring the .348's power. Maybe the stuff is falling off the shelves up in Alaska still.

Wow, for some reason I've got a dismal outlook about this. I guess it's better than no 71 at all.

Hey, Don't jinx it

I need some fresh loaded ammo at a decent price

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:14 pm

Apparently Winchester Ammunition is making the .348 currently:

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifl ... Winchester

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:17 pm

I have a couple of the Miroku made Winchesters and I'm very impressed with the way that they are made.
Like many others I'm not overjoyed by the rebounding hammers. The tang safety doesn't bother me though.
I certainly couldn't begin to afford an original production '86 EL or 1895 in new condition so the Mirokus are much appreciated.

The 71 is intriguing but the 1885 sporter in 40-65 really got my attention.

Jack

tman · Post by **tman** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:23 pm

Winchester engineers created the 71 .348 WCF for those heading to Alaska to prospect for gold, explore or hunt big game . The rifle was designed to take abuse, neglect and infrequent cleaning and maintance, sort of like a Glock handgun. The .348 could stop a brown bear and take an elk at 200 yards. It should have called the MODEL 71 ALASKAN. But this was in an age before elk, moose and bear morphed into bullet proof armour plated skin, and only a .375 H&H would be cosidered minimun. For those who don't read gun magazines, the 348 is the cat's *** for North american big game hunting at practical ranges that big game is hunted.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:39 pm

Cimarron Red wrote:Apparently Winchester Ammunition is making the .348 currently:

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifl ... Winchester

They claimed to have run their last batch of X3483 last year. Distribution ran out of it this past summer. MidwayUSA marked it as "Discontinued" from a category of "Seasonal Run".

Obviously, they might have to reconsider at this point.

Cimarron Red · Post by **Cimarron Red** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:57 pm

Buffalo Arms has brass at $75 per hundred:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,158.html

SJPrice · Post by **SJPrice** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:01 pm

Cimarron Red wrote:Buffalo Arms has brass at $75 per hundred:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,158.html

I get mine from Sinclair International. About the same price per hundred.

Also, Able Ammo still has Winchester Silvertip Factory ammo in stock for sale.

Paul Jenkins · Post by **Paul Jenkins** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:17 pm

Gentlemen,
Will someone tell me why the .348 even came into being. I don't think it will do anything the .45-7o can't do and it appearrs to me to be an 1886. I have owned both & prefer the '86.In .45-70. Seems like an upgrade that was useless.???? I really would like to know what the improovement was.???

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:03 pm

I have not seen pics or videos of the new 71 yet. Does anyone know if they made the upper tang short as on most original Winchester 71's or if they went with the longer tang as on the earliest of the 71's?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:09 pm

Paul Jenkins wrote:Gentlemen,
Will someone tell me why the .348 even came into being. I don't think it will do anything the .45-7o can't do and it appearrs to me to be an 1886. I have owned both & prefer the '86.In .45-70. Seems like an upgrade that was useless.???? I really would like to know what the improovement was.???

I read or heard somewhere that the '71 was an 1886 with the locking lugs at a slightly greater angle (less upright) for smoother levering, and with modern steels, a higher pressure cartridge was doable. That might be wrong... but... that's what I heard or read...

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:14 pm

I just watched the video and this new 71 does indeed have the short tang. The buttstock has the high comb on it too like on the Browning 71. That really jabs you in the cheek! My original Win 71 lacks the high comb and therefore does not nail you so hard.

Dave B · Post by **Dave B** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:00 am

I notice that he calls it as a Standard Model 71. I wonder, will a Deluxe Model 71 be offered?

Dave B

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:25 am

Rimfire McNutjob wrote: Do you think anyone from the group that handles Winchester lever-action product decisions ever stops by here? I hate to say it, but I'd bet they don't even know this place exists.

.

I suspect they know its here, I'm also betting they don't pay much attention to the grousing and rumblin that goes on around here about ANY new product otherwise they'ld probably quit makin guns and take up golf...

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:36 am

Keep in mind also that these SHOT show special guns are limited quantity, they're only make as many as they get orders for, so you won't be subjected to the abuse of having them readily available...

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:21 am

I'm interested in getting one. Then a trip to Turnbull to have it unlawyered and I'll have a nice gun!

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:06 am

buckeyeshooter wrote:I'm interested in getting one. Then a trip to Turnbull to have it unlawyered and I'll have a nice gun!

Might as well have it color cased while it's lying around their shop.

TMair · Post by **TMair** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:56 pm

Griff wrote:
Paul Jenkins wrote:Gentlemen,
Will someone tell me why the .348 even came into being. I don't think it will do anything the .45-7o can't do and it appearrs to me to be an 1886. I have owned both & prefer the '86.In .45-70. Seems like an upgrade that was useless.???? I really would like to know what the improovement was.???
I read or heard somewhere that the '71 was an 1886 with the locking lugs at a slightly greater angle (less upright) for smoother levering, and with modern steels, a higher pressure cartridge was doable. That might be wrong... but... that's what I heard or read...

From what I understand they changed a few things in the action to make it less expencive to manufacture, there where going to call it the 1886 Jubalee because of the date it was made, then the boys as Winchester decided to change the modle designation, and called it the Modle 71, even though it was in stores before the Modle 70.
The 348 was supposed to replace the 33, and the 405, remember at the time the 45-70 was a black powder round, and not nearly as powerful as it is now in new strong guns, if you look at the balistics of the 348 it is right up there with some of the "Magnum" ammo that we have available today...at least this is what I have read.
Terry

tman · Post by **tman** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:09 pm

The .348WCF came out along with the model 71 about 1935, 36. It was advertised as having 30-06 ballistics with a larger diameter bullet. The 45-70 was only factory loaded to anemic black powder statistics at that time. By then the 405 was long absolete. A 200 grain bullet at 2500 fps was more than enough for Alaskan game, before it developed body armour.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:23 pm

Someone just posted on Castbullets, that they handled the shotshow 71 today and it has halfcock hammer and not the rebounding hammer.

chadbr · Post by **chadbr** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:48 pm

Don McDowell wrote:Someone just posted on Castbullets, that they handled the shotshow 71 today and it has halfcock hammer and not the rebounding hammer.

Did he mention about the 92's?

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:10 pm

No just the 71

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:42 pm

If you look closely, you can see the tang safety lever on ALL new Winchester levers, i.e. 86's 92's 94's 95's and now also 71's.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:43 am

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:
buckeyeshooter wrote:I'm interested in getting one. Then a trip to Turnbull to have it unlawyered and I'll have a nice gun!
Might as well have it color cased while it's lying around their shop.

you are correct! While its there, might as well get it done.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:22 am

kaschi wrote:If you look closely, you can see the tang safety lever on ALL new Winchester levers, i.e. 86's 92's 94's 95's and now also 71's.

Perhaps the one in the video was mocked up from one of their Miroku 86's with the tang safety? Thus the discrepancy between the video and the one being show at the SHOT show?

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:33 am

Here's the link from the Winchester site:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/ ... amily=025C

That's pretty.

bogie

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:39 am

If I'm not buying an original 71, I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a Browning 71 than this new lawyered-up Winchester. The Browning is less money, too!

WinM71 · Post by **WinM71** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:53 pm

I agree with Victor. The Browning vs. Winchester name doesn't matter, it's a Miroku. To me the as-close-to-original-as-you'll-get Browning is preferable to the doubly lawyered-up "Winchester".

Boreman · Post by **Boreman** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:06 pm

Hey fellows,lighten up a little. We ALL love our orig. Wins. and our Brownchesters,I have 4 of them .After all we have talked about reviving the M-71,apparently someone listened,they are here. I for one am overjoyed that my beloved M-71 has been reborn. It might just attract a whole new following for those who cannot afford the originals.I think there is alot more to like about it than not. Hopefully Winchester will provide the ammo,also.Bring em' on !!!!!!!!!!! My 2 bits...............

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:18 pm

Boreman wrote:Hey fellows,lighten up a little. We ALL love our orig. Wins. and our Brownchesters,I have 4 of them .After all we have talked about reviving the M-71,apparently someone listened,they are here. I for one am overjoyed that my beloved M-71 has been reborn. It might just attract a whole new following for those who cannot afford the originals.I think there is alot more to like about it than not. Hopefully Winchester will provide the ammo,also.Bring em' on !!!!!!!!!!! My 2 bits...............

Notwithstanding what I said a couple of post back, you are exactly right, Ron, and I totally agree with you even though I might not buy one of the new Winchester 71s. Well said!

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:05 pm

Winchester may have taken note that Pedersoli is supposed to have a 71 on the market. That may have helped them make the decision to have one made by Miroku. Who knows, maybe they'll wake up and start making 66's, 73's and 76's..... I can just see the catalog headline: "Winchester is proud to recreate the Model 66- the first lever action rifle with the Winchester name on it".... then fudge it up with a TANG SAFETY & REBOUNDING HAMMER Boo, Hiss

:(:(:

TMair · Post by **TMair** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:52 am

kaschi wrote:Winchester may have taken note that Pedersoli is supposed to have a 71 on the market. That may have helped them make the decision to have one made by Miroku. Who knows, maybe they'll wake up and start making 66's, 73's and 76's..... I can just see the catalog headline: "Winchester is proud to recreate the Model 66- the first lever action rifle with the Winchester name on it".... then fudge it up with a TANG SAFETY & REBOUNDING HAMMER Boo, Hiss :(:(:

I think they have decided that the rebounding hammer is a deal breaker since they did not incorperate it into the new 71, I could live with the tang safty, just put the tang site on it and be happy with it.
Terry

SJPrice · Post by **SJPrice** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:28 am

And please bring back all 3 loads in the 348 Winchester Silvertip line. 150. 200 and 250.

TMair · Post by **TMair** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:54 am

SJPrice wrote:And please bring back all 3 loads in the 348 Winchester Silvertip line. 150. 200 and 250.

Yes by all means PLEASE, and affordable.
My boys and I where headed to Wy. for a goose hunt at thanksgiving time, we stopped in Evanston to buy gas, and pick up our licenses, in the store I seen a couple of boxes of Winchester 200 grain silvertips, I made a mental note because I had been looking for another 71, I thought the price was in the $30.00 range, I remember thinking those must have been on the shelf for a long time, anyway once I got the gun I called the store, which had just moved so everything must have gotten reviewed, those shells where now in the $70.00 range, needless to say I did not go get them.
Terry