348 Winchester

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2X22
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by 2X22 »

SJPrice?? That is one BEAUTIFUL rifle! :shock: :shock:

Idiot wrote:
2X22 wrote:
guido4198 wrote:I STRONGLY recommend bullet casting..or at least the purchase of cast bullets for the .348.
We're not talking about a rifle/caliber combo you get into to shoot 1 hole groups.
Work up a VERY pleasant moderate power load and really enjoy shooting the thing.
+1. I couldn't agree more!

2x22
And turn it into a 35 Remington?
Uh, no? I shoot 265gr cast @2150fps. And 209gr cast approaching 2400fps. I could go faster but hit on the 'right' load with this one.

Nothing I shoot in the .35 Rem comes close to that :wink:

2x22
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SJPrice
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

Thanks 2 x 22. I just posted my thoughts on this rifle and cartridge combo which I will add here. I am really impressed with the 348 Winchester. It is, in my opinion, a great 200 plus yard iron sight round. A 165 to 250 grain bullet can be driven flat enough to allow a dead on hold for game all the way down to the size of a coyote out to at least 200 yards. And it has more than ample power for any North American game. Add to that it is chambered in a smooth classic lever action and you have a great package.
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Leverluver
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by Leverluver »

SJ you have a pm
big bear
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by big bear »

Boreman wrote:SJP,
Cograts on a beautiful rifle.You have just started a life long love affair with
the M-71/348 combo. I don't think it gets any better than that for a lever gun.The more you shoot it ,the more you will come to respect what a worthy rifle/combo it is. :wink:
My favorite load for my M-71's is:
200gr Hornady
58.5gr -IMR 4350
CCI-LR Mag
Winchester Case
This load shoots pretty good in all 3 guns however,it shoots best in the 1939 long tang model.This load will shoot right at 3" or less at 100 Yds IF I do my part.
I was about to load some rounds to try this saturday after work (get to the range one more time before the snow gets too deep) and noticed you used Mag primers....any reason you used magnum LR rather than plain LR primers??? I usually use Win LR primers for my 348Win loads by the way.
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Rimfire McNutjob
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by Rimfire McNutjob »

SJPrice wrote:I received 3 boxes of Grizzly Cartridge 348 Winchesters yesterday loaded with 200 Grain bonded core bullets. The box claims a velocity of 2700 fps which seems aggressive for 200 grain loads. Does anyone here have experience with the 200 grain Grizzly ammo? I would like to know if they chronograph as advertised. I would even be interested in information regarding any of the Grizzly loads as to how they match the advertised velocity and what about any pressure problems. Thanks.
As I recall, they do achieve just over that in my Browning. I've not fired them in my Winchesters.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by Boreman »

Big Bear,
I started this load with CCI LR primers. The combo shot Ok.I was looking for a way to close up the groups still using the 58.5 gr load. All of the pressure signs looked and miked ok.So I said with that heavier load of slower burning powder, maybe the ignition could be improved.And as they say the rest is history.The groups printed more consistent and got at least an inch smaller. I can't explain all of the mechanics,it just worked.I use CCI-LR primers with other 348 loads,just not this one. Regards,Boreman
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tman
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by tman »

Rimfire McNutjob wrote:
SJPrice wrote:I received 3 boxes of Grizzly Cartridge 348 Winchesters yesterday loaded with 200 Grain bonded core bullets. The box claims a velocity of 2700 fps which seems aggressive for 200 grain loads. Does anyone here have experience with the 200 grain Grizzly ammo? I would like to know if they chronograph as advertised. I would even be interested in information regarding any of the Grizzly loads as to how they match the advertised velocity and what about any pressure problems. Thanks.
As I recall, they do achieve just over that in my Browning. I've not fired them in my Winchesters.
Wow! 2700 fps. and 200 grains. Gonna get some after Christmas.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

tman wrote:
Rimfire McNutjob wrote:
SJPrice wrote:I received 3 boxes of Grizzly Cartridge 348 Winchesters yesterday loaded with 200 Grain bonded core bullets. The box claims a velocity of 2700 fps which seems aggressive for 200 grain loads. Does anyone here have experience with the 200 grain Grizzly ammo? I would like to know if they chronograph as advertised. I would even be interested in information regarding any of the Grizzly loads as to how they match the advertised velocity and what about any pressure problems. Thanks.
As I recall, they do achieve just over that in my Browning. I've not fired them in my Winchesters.
Wow! 2700 fps. and 200 grains. Gonna get some after Christmas.
Makes you wonder why the 348 Winchester never caught on more. Whats not to like, a big cartridge in a strong smooth lever action with plenty of power, plenty of speed, a wide range of bullet weights in a medium bore.
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TMair
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

I am kinda new here, so hello guys!
I had a Browning 71 back when they first came out, I traded it off for who know what, I have missed that gun, but now I am happy to say I have another one coming, I can't wait for it to get here!
I am wondering if anyone has any good loads for the 165 Gr. Hawk bullet, I know it was mentioned, but I never seen any loads mentioned.

71fan, if you don't mind my asking, where in Ut. did you hunt elk?
I live in Ut. so just wondering.
Thanks
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

Terry,

I am loading the 165 grain Hawks using new WW brass, with Winchester LR primers and 55 grains of Reloader 15, for just under 2,600 fps. This load gives me great accuracy out of my Browning 71. (DISCLAIMER) This is my load that I picked up off the Load Data web site and I make no claims for it being safe or accurate for anyone else. (END OF DISCLAIMER)

I have taken two coyotes with it so far and both were anchored right where they were hit. One was just behind the left shoulder on a broadside shot at 93 yards, according to my range finder binoculars. The other was trotting angling away from me at about 60 yards and I misjudged the lead. I caught him pretty far back. The bullet travelled up and froward to the back and top of the rib cage. His hind quarters were kicked around and out from under him. He was dead by the time I walked over to him. Both shots struck bone at some point and both of them exited the animal. The exit wounds were impressive.

I am impressed with the Hawk performance on coyotes, but I wonder if they would be tough enough for hogs and would guess they would damage a lot of meat on deer, based on how they performed on coyotes.

May I ask what made you choose the 165 Hawk and what you intend to use them for. I am thinking that either a 180 or more likely a 200 grain bullet would be a better all around choice for the 348. I believe that the heavier Hawk bullets have a heavier jacket than the 165's.

Steve
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TMair
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

Hello Steve
The main reason I chose the 165 was to do what you have been doing with it, I have a box of Hornady 200 gr. bullets, I got them back when I had my first Browning 71, glad now I hung onto them.
When I ordered from Hawks today they told me they would send me some load data, but thanks for your information, all of the data I can get is appresheated.
On a side note a couple of days ago I contacted Hornady to let them know that I apprlesheated them continueing to make the 200 gr. bullet, in the note I also asked if they had considered making one of there leverevolution bullets in the 348, they told me they where talking about it, and that we could expect to see one in the near future, so that is good news!
Anyway thanks again for your reply.
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by big bear »

Boreman wrote:SJP,
Cograts on a beautiful rifle.You have just started a life long love affair with
the M-71/348 combo. I don't think it gets any better than that for a lever gun.The more you shoot it ,the more you will come to respect what a worthy rifle/combo it is. :wink:
My favorite load for my M-71's is:
200gr Hornady
58.5gr -IMR 4350
CCI-LR Mag
Winchester Case
This load shoots pretty good in all 3 guns however,it shoots best in the 1939 long tang model.This load will shoot right at 3" or less at 100 Yds IF I do my part.

Tried your load yesterday afternoon. It was cold as you know what at the range, not the greatest light, getting late in the day. Got a 1 3/4" group with my beater 71 and closer to 2 1/2" with my nice. one with your load. When it warms up I'm going to have to dig my chrono out unless you have checked velocity already. Thanks for the load info.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by getitdone1 »

I have the Browning model 71 carbine. Great gun. I prefer the carbine for handiness and a little lighter. A pleasure to carry in one hand with that beautiful receiver with it's rounded bottom. Solid quality, throughout.

I recently bought a model 64, 30-30 and it's similar to the 71 but considerably lighter. Same beautiful steel buttplate inletted at the heel of the butt. Quite a pair. My old model 70 has the same buttplate. With the passage of time I've learned to appreciate the shotgun butt plate more than the carbine or cresent types even though they are not as "old-timey looking."

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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by RKrodle »

SJPrice wrote:I received 3 boxes of Grizzly Cartridge 348 Winchesters yesterday loaded with 200 Grain bonded core bullets. The box claims a velocity of 2700 fps which seems aggressive for 200 grain loads. Does anyone here have experience with the 200 grain Grizzly ammo? I would like to know if they chronograph as advertised. I would even be interested in information regarding any of the Grizzly loads as to how they match the advertised velocity and what about any pressure problems. Thanks.
SJPrice, I have some of the Grizzly 348 Winchesters that are loaded with the 250gr Kodiak Bullet. Across my chronograph they were running just a little slower then advertised, maybe 50fps or so, but my 71 is a carbine so that may have some to do with it. I used the 250's on some hogs trying to recover a bullet and couldn't get one to stay in. I finally got a big Water Buffalo to stop one and recovered it. Tough bullets. Mike at Grizzly has a couple of 71's so If he says it get 2700 fps with a 200gr bullet you can bet yours will be real close. If you will PM an e-mail address I'll forward you a whole list of loads to try. I didn't make the list and am not sure who did but they put alot of work into it and has a couple of hundred different loads with various bullets and powders. The list is in an Excel format.
Ricky

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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by WinM71 »

I was intrigued by bigbear's comment that someone told him the new W-W factory loads didn't "measure up", thet their rims were only .062 thick, vs. a SAAMI spec of .070. I took a look, and it turns out that the rim thickness is a very difficult reading to take. I use a typical dial caliper. The edge of the rim at the extreme cartridge base is radiused all around. When the caliper blades close, the one at the cartridge base closes where this radius has just begun, assuming you hold the caliper parallel with the cartridge. I checked about 15 different factory loads, from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and the new W-Ws. All are radiused about the same, with some looking more like a flat "bevel" than a radius-but the result is the same. The measurement on all varied from .060 to .063, with the caliper held parallel to the case body, as you normally would. Turns out you have to hold the caliper body slightly at an angle away from the case as you close the jaws, that's the only way to get them to close on the absolutely flat portion of the base, before the radius begins, and measure its extreme thickness. Feels awkward, but you get the hang of it. Once I got that figured out, all the case, including the new W-Ws, measured from .069 to .071. Sure, holding the caliber at a slight angle adds a tiny bit to the measurement since you're not measuring "square"; but it's extremely slight, given that you only have to hold the caliper body at a very slight angle. Use of a jeweler's loupe was very helpful, it let me see that the caliper was closing slightly out on the radiused area. You really wouldn't notice that if you weren't looking for it. The one hint you do get is that when the caliper's blades close, you don't feel the solid "stop" when they hit the rim's base. That blade seems to "slip" a bit, and you have to fiddle with it a couple times to get what seems like a clean "stop".
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by Leverluver »

The so called .070 SAAMI spec was NEVER a rim spec. That is the chamber specificaton for where the rim would reside. Same thing for a lot of others including the 45-70.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by WinM71 »

It shows up as the rim thickness dimension in all the reloading guides that show cartridge measurements., I assumed that meant it was the SAAMI spec.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by Sixgun »

I personally think the Model 71 is a classy, beautiful huntin' gun for big stuff----period....The Model 71 is one model that I don't take out to shoot 100 rounds out of--even light loads. The brass grows fast, is rather expensive and you have to shoot cast unless your a DuPont.

Back in the nineties, while hunting deer, I shot a wild dog with one and the 200 gr. Hornady about cut that dog in half. nasty. I did take out a pre-war standard grade for elk in the Rockies but saw nothing to shoot. When I did see a coyote, it took me too long to get on target as I'm used to a tang sight and this thing wore a Lyman 56--never did see that bugger again.

I only have two 71's--a decent pre-war standard and a like new deluxe with a 3 digit serial number, made in '36.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

Sixgun,

That deluxe looks like a great 71. I would like to see a full size picture of it. The wood on the older Winchesters was usually pretty nice. You are correct about the 348 being tough on feral dog and or coyote sized targets. I also agree about the cost of 348 jacketed bullets. I am having a hard time finding the Hornady's and the only even close to reasonable cost jacketed I can locate are the Hawks and even those are only the 165's. Seems like a lot of 348 bullets were snatched up for hunting season. You would think with demand wiping out the supply there would be room for growth and more competitive prices in the 348 market. As usual, when you find something that is fun, you also find expense.

Steve
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

SJPrice wrote:Sixgun,

That deluxe looks like a great 71. I would like to see a full size picture of it. The wood on the older Winchesters was usually pretty nice. You are correct about the 348 being tough on feral dog and or coyote sized targets. I also agree about the cost of 348 jacketed bullets. I am having a hard time finding the Hornady's and the only even close to reasonable cost jacketed I can locate are the Hawks and even those are only the 165's. Seems like a lot of 348 bullets were snatched up for hunting season. You would think with demand wiping out the supply there would be room for growth and more competitive prices in the 348 market. As usual, when you find something that is fun, you also find expense.

Steve
I just ordered bullets from Hawks, they have three or four different weights in stock, you can buy direct from them.

Also the hunting shack sells loaded ammo for the 348, I ordered three boxes of their 200gr loaded ammo, they use the Hornady bullets, problem is they are back ordered three months, but I figured just as well get them ordered so I will have them for spring.
Cost per box of 20 $31.95, wich I didn't think was all that bad for loaded ammo using new winchester brass.
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

TMair wrote: I just ordered bullets from Hawks, they have three or four different weights in stock, you can buy direct from them.

Also the hunting shack sells loaded ammo for the 348, I ordered three boxes of their 200gr loaded ammo, they use the Hornady bullets, problem is they are back ordered three months, but I figured just as well get them ordered so I will have them for spring.
Cost per box of 20 $31.95, wich I didn't think was all that bad for loaded ammo using new winchester brass.
Terry
That is a good price when compared to the other 2 loaded ammo options of Grizzly and or Buffalo Bore.
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TMair
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

SJPrice wrote:
TMair wrote: I just ordered bullets from Hawks, they have three or four different weights in stock, you can buy direct from them.

Also the hunting shack sells loaded ammo for the 348, I ordered three boxes of their 200gr loaded ammo, they use the Hornady bullets, problem is they are back ordered three months, but I figured just as well get them ordered so I will have them for spring.
Cost per box of 20 $31.95, wich I didn't think was all that bad for loaded ammo using new winchester brass.
Terry
That is a good price when compared to the other 2 loaded ammo options of Grizzly and or Buffalo Bore.
Yeah I though it was not all that bad considering new brass costs about .71 each, then the Hornady 200 gr bullers coast .35, then the cost of powder and primers, and this way I will have 60 once fired to reload with once I unload them;)
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by tman »

TMair wrote:
SJPrice wrote:
TMair wrote: I just ordered bullets from Hawks, they have three or four different weights in stock, you can buy direct from them.

Also the hunting shack sells loaded ammo for the 348, I ordered three boxes of their 200gr loaded ammo, they use the Hornady bullets, problem is they are back ordered three months, but I figured just as well get them ordered so I will have them for spring.
Cost per box of 20 $31.95, wich I didn't think was all that bad for loaded ammo using new winchester brass.
Terry
That is a good price when compared to the other 2 loaded ammo options of Grizzly and or Buffalo Bore.
Yeah I though it was not all that bad considering new brass costs about .71 each, then the Hornady 200 gr bullers coast .35, then the cost of powder and primers, and this way I will have 60 once fired to reload with once I unload them;)
Terry
Please let
u

s know how HUNTING SHACK ammo works for









you.






Tha
t's a pretty good price :)
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by tman »

Sorry, don't know how i screwed that up like that? :? :oops:
big bear
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by big bear »

TMair wrote:
SJPrice wrote:Sixgun,

That deluxe looks like a great 71. I would like to see a full size picture of it. The wood on the older Winchesters was usually pretty nice. You are correct about the 348 being tough on feral dog and or coyote sized targets. I also agree about the cost of 348 jacketed bullets. I am having a hard time finding the Hornady's and the only even close to reasonable cost jacketed I can locate are the Hawks and even those are only the 165's. Seems like a lot of 348 bullets were snatched up for hunting season. You would think with demand wiping out the supply there would be room for growth and more competitive prices in the 348 market. As usual, when you find something that is fun, you also find expense.

Steve
I just ordered bullets from Hawks, they have three or four different weights in stock, you can buy direct from them.

Also the hunting shack sells loaded ammo for the 348, I ordered three boxes of their 200gr loaded ammo, they use the Hornady bullets, problem is they are back ordered three months, but I figured just as well get them ordered so I will have them for spring.
Cost per box of 20 $31.95, wich I didn't think was all that bad for loaded ammo using new winchester brass.
Terry
I've had nothing but good results with the Hornady bullets on black bears. Here on the coast the ones I shoot are in the 300-400lb range. The population is very high (like hanging around my backyard when the there's apples on the trees) so I tend only to shoot big ones so I can hunt longer. When I first got interested in the 348Win I investigated bullet sources and ran into some guys who hunted with them and they were not keen at all on the hawk bullets. These were bear hunters from eastern Canada who hunted mostly over bait and killed lots of bears. They didn't feel the bullets held together well on big bears. I'd love to hear some other folks real world experience with these bullets.
Best 348 bullets by far I've used are Barnes X. Rare as hen's teeth, but they dropped the animals I've shot with them like the hammer of Thor!
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

big bear wrote:
TMair wrote:
SJPrice wrote:Sixgun,

That deluxe looks like a great 71. I would like to see a full size picture of it. The wood on the older Winchesters was usually pretty nice. You are correct about the 348 being tough on feral dog and or coyote sized targets. I also agree about the cost of 348 jacketed bullets. I am having a hard time finding the Hornady's and the only even close to reasonable cost jacketed I can locate are the Hawks and even those are only the 165's. Seems like a lot of 348 bullets were snatched up for hunting season. You would think with demand wiping out the supply there would be room for growth and more competitive prices in the 348 market. As usual, when you find something that is fun, you also find expense.

Steve
I just ordered bullets from Hawks, they have three or four different weights in stock, you can buy direct from them.

Also the hunting shack sells loaded ammo for the 348, I ordered three boxes of their 200gr loaded ammo, they use the Hornady bullets, problem is they are back ordered three months, but I figured just as well get them ordered so I will have them for spring.
Cost per box of 20 $31.95, wich I didn't think was all that bad for loaded ammo using new winchester brass.
Terry
I've had nothing but good results with the Hornady bullets on black bears. Here on the coast the ones I shoot are in the 300-400lb range. The population is very high (like hanging around my backyard when the there's apples on the trees) so I tend only to shoot big ones so I can hunt longer. When I first got interested in the 348Win I investigated bullet sources and ran into some guys who hunted with them and they were not keen at all on the hawk bullets. These were bear hunters from eastern Canada who hunted mostly over bait and killed lots of bears. They didn't feel the bullets held together well on big bears. I'd love to hear some other folks real world experience with these bullets.
Best 348 bullets by far I've used are Barnes X. Rare as hen's teeth, but they dropped the animals I've shot with them like the hammer of Thor!
I used to use Barnes X bullets in my 375 H&H when I had it, every thing I shot with it died on the spot!
I have been thinking of trying them in the 348 but man are they pricy, I live about 60 miles from the factory, used to do photos for them but never got a break on their bullets :mrgreen:
Anyway I will post how they work, mostly got them to try on coyotes.
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

Wow, Barnes X bullets in a 348 Winchester! That is some serious coyote medicine.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

Yeah that would be a pricy Coyote, but I think it would make a great Elk load.
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by pharmseller »

Pathfinder09 wrote:I have a 48' Winchester Mod. 71. I love it. I have hunted elk and deer with it. I am confident that I could take any game in N. America with the rifle. I reload for it as well as use Winchester factory loads. I have enough hand loading components to last me the rest of my life.

This is one of my favorite guns and I will never sell it.

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Pathfinder,
I swear, if I see you post one, and I mean ONE more pic of your model 71 I will track you down and take it!

P
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

SJPrice wrote:Terry,

I am loading the 165 grain Hawks using new WW brass, with Winchester LR primers and 55 grains of Reloader 15, for just under 2,600 fps. This load gives me great accuracy out of my Browning 71. (DISCLAIMER) This is my load that I picked up off the Load Data web site and I make no claims for it being safe or accurate for anyone else. (END OF DISCLAIMER)

I have taken two coyotes with it so far and both were anchored right where they were hit. One was just behind the left shoulder on a broadside shot at 93 yards, according to my range finder binoculars. The other was trotting angling away from me at about 60 yards and I misjudged the lead. I caught him pretty far back. The bullet travelled up and froward to the back and top of the rib cage. His hind quarters were kicked around and out from under him. He was dead by the time I walked over to him. Both shots struck bone at some point and both of them exited the animal. The exit wounds were impressive.

I am impressed with the Hawk performance on coyotes, but I wonder if they would be tough enough for hogs and would guess they would damage a lot of meat on deer, based on how they performed on coyotes.

May I ask what made you choose the 165 Hawk and what you intend to use them for. I am thinking that either a 180 or more likely a 200 grain bullet would be a better all around choice for the 348. I believe that the heavier Hawk bullets have a heavier jacket than the 165's.

Steve
Hello Steve
Thanks for the information, I got my Hawks 165 today, now if I could just get the gun here :cry:
I am hoping it will be here by the end of the week.
Thanks again
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

Terry,

I hope your 348 shows up soon. I am sure you will enjoy it. I know I am having a great time with mine. Please give us a range report when you get a chance.

Steve
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

SJPrice wrote:Terry,

I hope your 348 shows up soon. I am sure you will enjoy it. I know I am having a great time with mine. Please give us a range report when you get a chance.

Steve
Thanks Steve, I know I will enjoy it, I never should have gotten rid of the first one I had, but from the pictures this one looks to have better wood :D
I will give a "Full" report once I get a chance to shoot it, the guy I am getting it from texted me yesterday said his boss wouldn't let him leave work so no chance to ship it, but said it would go today for sure...this is me hopeing! I hate waiting for toys!
I have about 8 or 10 empty brass, part of a box of Hornadys I had loaded the last time I had one of these, maybe wile I am waiting I will load up some of those Hawk's...just to see of course :o
Thanks again
Terry

Edited to say: Now that I think about it I let the dies go with the last one, but this one is supposed to include the dies so I guess I will have to wait for the package to do the reloading too :( :(
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

More activity with my new Browning 71. I got a crack at another coyote this afternoon. He was facing me at 130 yards. I know the distance because he was standing at the back fence just inside the tree line. One shot and he dropped right there. He was right around 50 pounds. I hit him with a 165 grain Hawk, 348 started out at 2600 fps. I recovered the Hawk just under the skin on the left side in front of the bone of his hind leg. Looks like pretty good performance to me.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by mod71alaska »

That's great bullet performance! Who ever would have thought that was a .348 from a coyote! Just goes to show how important bullet selection is. Good work, Steve! And nice shooting!!!
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

mod71alaska wrote:That's great bullet performance! Who ever would have thought that was a .348 from a coyote! Just goes to show how important bullet selection is. Good work, Steve! And nice shooting!!!
I was very pleased by the performance. The remaining weight is 106.9 grains and the bullet traveled approximately 17 inches of coyote. As near as I can tell it hit a rib far back on the left side and then continued under the skin for a few more inches toward the left rear leg. Based on this I would say the 165 would work fine for deer, but there are probably better alternatives. I am very pleased with it as a coyote load.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by mod71alaska »

Steve:

In the early years of the Model 71 Winchester offered a 150 gr. round along with the 200 and 250 gr. It wasn't particularly accurate out of the Model 71 and was soon discontinued. Not having a light weight .348 round commercially available has been a real limitation for the 71. I hope you'll post range reports as you continue your development of a light weight .348 round. Victor
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by WinM71 »

The .348's history is often a little misunderstood. When the Model 71 and the .348 cartridge were introduced in 1936, the 150gr and 200gr were offered. In the February 1936 American Rifleman, editor F.C. Ness gave the new rifle and cartridge detailed coverage in his "Dope Bag" column. Quoting his thoughts on the 150gr load: "In the Model 71 Winchester, the 150-grain bullet and the .348 Winchester Super Speed load makes a marvelous cartridge. In spite of the larger .35-caliber size for greater striking area, it has all the drive and zest of the 150-grain high-velocity .30-'06 loads and perhaps greater killing power. In spite of the lighter and handier lever-action gun , it shoots with all the accuracy of the .30-'06." Seems Mr. Ness was given to a bit of hyperbole. He goes on to describe his accurany & bullet-deflection testing etc. So, it would appear that at least one "expert" expected the 150gr load to become very popular. It never did; but it was, in fact, offered in factory loads until 1963 by both W-W and R-P. I shot it as a teenager in the early 1960s, and remember how surprised I was at how quickly it seemed to get out to 100 and 200 yards & impact on the berms.
The 250gr load wasn't available in the earliest years of the Model 71. There was a new-style Winchester cartridge box introduced in 1939, and no example of the 250gr load has been noted in this or the earlier-style boxes. It appears that the 250gr load made its debut in 1940, along with the introduction of the Silvertip bullet. This was in the now very collectible "grizzly bear" boxes. The Winchester box had a large profile of the cartridge at the lower middle and the forward half of a grizzly with its left forepaw raised at the far right of the box. The Western box had a grizzly up on his hind legs with his right forepaw in the air at the right of the box, and a drawing of the cartridge extending across his legs. R-P never offered the 250gr load in its Remington or Peters brands. There was a 210gr Peters load offered briefly in the early 1940s. The 250gr load was last offered in 1964 by W-W, this was in the yellow boxes with red logos.
Thus, the 150gr load ran from 1936 to 1963, the 250gr from 1940 to 1964. Hope this information is of interest to fans of the Model 71 and the .348.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by mod71alaska »

Thanks for the detail, Win71. I learn something everyday. I don't recall ever seeing a 150 gr. .348 except in the early cartridges. Then again I've always looked for and collected the heavier .348 cartridges. Do you have yellow/red boxes of 150 gr. in your collection?
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by WinM71 »

Nope, only the 200s and a box of 250s I got from you. I don't have a box of the Peters 210s either, they are very pricey in the rare instances where one pops up on Gunbroker. Almost got one on ebay years ago, when you could still sell them on ebay (though I remember you they had to describe the box as "empty in accordance with ebay rules, contact the seller for furhter information . . ."). I have quite a number of 150s in rem and Peters, and some earlier Win and Westerns. I really always liked shooting them as a kid, but you seldom got to do it, given the cost.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

SJPrice wrote:More activity with my new Browning 71. I got a crack at another coyote this afternoon. He was facing me at 130 yards. I know the distance because he was standing at the back fence just inside the tree line. One shot and he dropped right there. He was right around 50 pounds. I hit him with a 165 grain Hawk, 348 started out at 2600 fps. I recovered the Hawk just under the skin on the left side in front of the bone of his hind leg. Looks like pretty good performance to me.
Image
Image
Thanks for the pics, and info SJPrice.
Well now I have my Hawks bullets, 100 new unprimed brass, just waiting, my gun has been shipped, but USPS tracking leaves a lot to be desired so no idea exactly where it is, but it did say expected delivery date 1/11/11, so should have it by Tuesday, now if it will just warm up enough to go find a place to shoot it in this frozen hell I find my self in :twisted:
I am glad to hear the 165 Hawks did not loose a lot of weight on the Coyote, this is primarily what I was hopeing to use those bullets on.
Thanks again
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by John in MS »

I was rather astounded that a .348 bullet could be stopped by a coyote, myself!! :shock:

John
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

John in MS wrote:I was rather astounded that a .348 bullet could be stopped by a coyote, myself!! :shock:

John
I guess I should clarify my post. I should have specifically stated it was a Texas coyote. They are of course bigger and tougher critters.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by vancelw »

SJPrice wrote:
John in MS wrote:I was rather astounded that a .348 bullet could be stopped by a coyote, myself!! :shock:

John
I guess I should clarify my post. I should have specifically stated it was a Texas coyote. They are of course bigger and tougher critters.
:oops: Now I unnerstand :!:

I was wondering the same thing myself and should have known better. :D

Surprised he didn't outrun it.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by SJPrice »

vancelw wrote:
SJPrice wrote:
John in MS wrote:I was rather astounded that a .348 bullet could be stopped by a coyote, myself!! :shock:

John
I guess I should clarify my post. I should have specifically stated it was a Texas coyote. They are of course bigger and tougher critters.
:oops: Now I unnerstand :!:

I was wondering the same thing myself and should have known better. :D

Surprised he didn't outrun it.
I figure he thought I was using a 30-30 and it would just bounce off. Little did he know I was using a 348. :D
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by John in MS »

"I figure he thought I was using a 30-30 and it would just bounce off. Little did he know I was using a 348. :D"

:lol: LOL!! THAT'LL teach 'em not to mistake a 71 for a Winchester 64!!! :D

John
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

Well I finily got it!!
I think I got a pretty good deal on it, it cost me $825 plus shipping, along with the gun I got reloading dies, about 30 brass, almost a full box of Hornady 200 Gr. FP, it came with a williams FP receiver sight, and a dovetail plug.
Here are a cuple of photos of it with my 1886, sorry they aren't verry big, but had to limit the size.
Now I just need to load some of those Hawk's bullets and see how they perform.
Thanks
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by mod71alaska »

TMair...

That's a wonderful combo!!!
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by WinM71 »

Be sure to get a Lee Factory Crimp Die! The absolute best thing ever invented for loading the .348. I even bought a spare. Another real key is to find a neck sizer die (Victor, mod71alaska, had some extras for sale at one time). It will extend your case life a great deal, as well as making the sizing process much easier.
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

mod71alaska wrote:TMair...

That's a wonderful combo!!!
Thanks mod71alaska, I am just glad to have another 71.
Terry
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Re: 348 Winchester

Post by TMair »

WinM71 wrote:Be sure to get a Lee Factory Crimp Die! The absolute best thing ever invented for loading the .348. I even bought a spare. Another real key is to find a neck sizer die (Victor, mod71alaska, had some extras for sale at one time). It will extend your case life a great deal, as well as making the sizing process much easier.
I had thought about a factory crimp die, so they do make a big difference?

So I am assuming the neck sizer die just resized the neck so you are not working the rest of the bras? I can see where that would save a lot, and with the cost of brass saving every little bit is a good deal.
Thanks for the advise.
Terry
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