Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
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- Senior Levergunner
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Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
A few weeks ago I posted reforming 308 military brass to 358 Winchester and so far it's coming out good. A couple of things I'm noticing is:
1) When cases are resized to 358 Win. they are shorter (2.000 or less) where the "trim to length" is 2.005. I was hoping to trim the cases a little because most of them, at the case mouth have little burs or it's not even all around the mouth. Can I still trim or not?
2)Very tight primer pockets! I just did two primers, they both got crushed and that's after I chamfered the primer pocket to get rid of the military crimp.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Mainehunter
1) When cases are resized to 358 Win. they are shorter (2.000 or less) where the "trim to length" is 2.005. I was hoping to trim the cases a little because most of them, at the case mouth have little burs or it's not even all around the mouth. Can I still trim or not?
2)Very tight primer pockets! I just did two primers, they both got crushed and that's after I chamfered the primer pocket to get rid of the military crimp.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Mainehunter
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
Chamfering does not always get rid of all the crimp. A primer pocket uniformer (Lyman) has always worked for me.Mainehunter wrote:A few weeks ago I posted reforming 308 military brass to 358 Winchester and so far it's coming out good. A couple of things I'm noticing is:
1) When cases are resized to 358 Win. they are shorter (2.000 or less) where the "trim to length" is 2.005. I was hoping to trim the cases a little because most of them, at the case mouth have little burs or it's not even all around the mouth. Can I still trim or not?
2)Very tight primer pockets! I just did two primers, they both got crushed and that's after I chamfered the primer pocket to get rid of the military crimp.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Mainehunter
"Any man who covers his face and packs a gun is a legitimate target for any decent citizen"
Jeff Cooper
Jeff Cooper
Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
I swage the primer pockets. Also, chamfer the case mouths, that's all they need if they are square.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
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Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
Fireforming to neck cases up usually results in cases longer than what you started with instead of shorter as happens by using an expander plug pushed into the mouth of the case. For cases of .308 to .30-06 and similar capacity this works well:
1) Anneal the neck and shoulder
2) Load with 15 gr. Unique, any appropriate primer
3) Fill the case with Cornmeal or Cream of Wheat well compacted
4) Top with a wax wad to keep it all together
5) Fire in your rifle with muzzle vertical instead of horizontal
The Cornmeal or Cream of Wheat compress into a hard plug and will effectively iron the shoulder forward into the chamber neck and the case will usually be longer that before fireformed. I cannot explain why shooting vertically works better than horizontal, it doesn't seem logical, but you will get a much higher percentage of fully-formed cases this way.
I understand why you would want to use .308 brass since .358 can be hard to find, but why not use commercial brass instead of military? You will have a lot fewer problems to deal with, like the primer pockets!
1) Anneal the neck and shoulder
2) Load with 15 gr. Unique, any appropriate primer
3) Fill the case with Cornmeal or Cream of Wheat well compacted
4) Top with a wax wad to keep it all together
5) Fire in your rifle with muzzle vertical instead of horizontal
The Cornmeal or Cream of Wheat compress into a hard plug and will effectively iron the shoulder forward into the chamber neck and the case will usually be longer that before fireformed. I cannot explain why shooting vertically works better than horizontal, it doesn't seem logical, but you will get a much higher percentage of fully-formed cases this way.
I understand why you would want to use .308 brass since .358 can be hard to find, but why not use commercial brass instead of military? You will have a lot fewer problems to deal with, like the primer pockets!
Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
I use Lake City and fireform it just like Cast Bullet Hunter. It's some solid brass, stronger than the Winchester. Once the pockets are fitted it seems to last forever.
Kind regards,
Tycer
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Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
CBH - seems like the pressure would be more uniform around the brass.
Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
Ok I have to ask, why can't you just run the cases thru a sizing die ???
I'm looking to do up about 1000 ish or more and loading and fire forming
would be a total PTA !!!! I have decided to get an annealer (sorry if that's
missed spelled) I was going to anneal them then full length size ... I was also going
to do the same for 308 to 7mm-08 too ...
Thanks .......
Talon
I'm looking to do up about 1000 ish or more and loading and fire forming
would be a total PTA !!!! I have decided to get an annealer (sorry if that's
missed spelled) I was going to anneal them then full length size ... I was also going
to do the same for 308 to 7mm-08 too ...
Thanks .......
Talon
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- Senior Levergunner
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Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
Thanks for the info gents! CBH....It's because a friend of mine has several thousand 308 military brass just siting in his basement and was willing to give me about a thousand or so. I used a full length sizing die with a little extra lube inside the case mouth and with one pass it will expand to 358. I was expecting the case to be shorter just like you said but not that short. The other option was to fire form but it's a tedious process that I have done before with other calibers. I have been looking online last night and RCBS makes a swaging die just curious if anybody has used one of them?Cast Bullet Hunter wrote:Fireforming to neck cases up usually results in cases longer than what you started with instead of shorter as happens by using an expander plug pushed into the mouth of the case. For cases of .308 to .30-06 and similar capacity this works well:
1) Anneal the neck and shoulder
2) Load with 15 gr. Unique, any appropriate primer
3) Fill the case with Cornmeal or Cream of Wheat well compacted
4) Top with a wax wad to keep it all together
5) Fire in your rifle with muzzle vertical instead of horizontal
The Cornmeal or Cream of Wheat compress into a hard plug and will effectively iron the shoulder forward into the chamber neck and the case will usually be longer that before fire formed. I cannot explain why shooting vertically works better than horizontal, it doesn't seem logical, but you will get a much higher percentage of fully-formed cases this way.
I understand why you would want to use .308 brass since .358 can be hard to find, but why not use commercial brass instead of military? You will have a lot fewer problems to deal with, like the primer pockets!
Mainehunter
Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
Yup used the swaging die, works OK. I used to use a primer pocket uniformer in an electric drill, on military brass, but my Dillon does it for me now. I always just lubed the cases and ran them in a size die, never fireformed a 358 case. Have a switch barrel XP100, with one in 358. First time I shot it, just ran the cases in the size die till bolt would close on gun, shot the next day at a match..
Piece of cake
Piece of cake
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All the knowledge in the world, is of no use to fools! (Eagles-long road out of Eden)
All the knowledge in the world, is of no use to fools! (Eagles-long road out of Eden)
Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
I have converted 7.62/.308 brass into .358 by fireforming and running through R/S die but, after having the good fortune of finding a .30 to .338 RCBS expander die at a gunshow, it has become my standard. It seems the mouths stays more square and less shorting when expanding .030" then .020" than expanding all at once.
JDL
JDL
Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
I Load for my own 358 Win and my sons. I neck it up to 338 first then up to 358 in the second forming. Done this with commercial Federal Match brass and Win brass also with LC 67 and LC 78 brass NO PROBLEMS the LC (and all military brass ) will be stronger. SWAGE the primer pockets on military brass chamfering wont get rid of all the crimp.
I have re sized by the "Cream of Wheat" method but much prefer a wax plug in the case neck to the cream of wheat Buy some parafin wax used for canning is come's in blocks about 1/2 in thick press the block over the case mouth and it will fill the neck . SHoot VERTICAL just like the cream of wheat works better for me than the filler
I have re sized by the "Cream of Wheat" method but much prefer a wax plug in the case neck to the cream of wheat Buy some parafin wax used for canning is come's in blocks about 1/2 in thick press the block over the case mouth and it will fill the neck . SHoot VERTICAL just like the cream of wheat works better for me than the filler
The right way is always the hardest. It's like the law of nature , water always takes the path of least resistence...... That's why we get crooked rivers and crooked men . TR Theodore the Great
Re: Reformed 358 Winchester brass?
Military brass may be stronger but it usually has less case capacity. This will require use of smaller powder changes and lower performance when you start loading your eventual loads.