Savage '99 "leverscout"

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Retro
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Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by Retro »

Hi all

After two years of battling with the paperwork and a year of battling with the police, seems my current set of licences have been approved.

Five leverguns in there, a Winchester '94 in 44 Mag, a Savage '99 in 300 Savage, a Rossi in 357, and a Miroku and Norinco 22.

I want to mount a scope (actually, I *have* to mount a scope, can't shoot open sights on a rifle worth a darn, being cross eye dominant with a very weak right eye and a very weak left hand, so I can't even shoot left handed) in the "scout" configuration, i.e. long eye relief scope, halfway down the barrel :-)

Who makes a mount to do this? I've seen at least one pic of a '99 scout, but I have no idea where the mount came from...

Thanks
86er
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by 86er »

The two slot weaver base from Wild West Guns will fit your barrel and will need four holes D/T to accomodate the screws that come with it.
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mescalero1
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by mescalero1 »

I talked to the Savage people at the NRA convention in Phoenix this summer.
They still have thier scout scope mount available, they advised me to call the factory & speak to the parts people.
Retro
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by Retro »

Hang on Mescalero, you're saying the mount off a Savage Scout (boltgun) will fit a Savage '99?

86er, thanks. Would have preferred something that uses existing holes, but it's a lead.

Thanks
mescalero1
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by mescalero1 »

You got a file?
Retro
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by Retro »

I have a lathe. But not a mill.

Have ordered some Weaver blanks from Brownells, will post here if it works out.
nemhed
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by nemhed »

Retro, is this an older 99 that is not drilled and tapped for standard scope bases? I'm just begging you to be sure you are 100% sold on the scout scope idea before you start to permanently alter an older gun. There are reasons and rationals for the scout scope set up (such as an action type that precludes standard scope placement), but it's not for me and the idea doesn't seem to really have a lot of followers. Just my two cents and you know what they're worth. :wink:
Pete44ru
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by Pete44ru »

nemhed, with all due respect & FWIW, retro's in USA, aka the Union of South AFRICA - and not the USA, aka the United States of America.

He just spent TWO YEARS trying, and was finally allowed to have those specific guns (only, AFAIK).

IMHO, it's not as easy for him to buy another/switch/sell rifles as it is for a US resident - so he's most likely gonna keep that M99 for a looong time, so say nothing about his vision/sighting requirements.

.
nemhed
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by nemhed »

Pete44ru wrote:nemhed, with all due respect & FWIW, retro's in USA, aka the Union of South AFRICA - and not the USA, aka the United States of America.

He just spent TWO YEARS trying, and was finally allowed to have those specific guns (only, AFAIK).

IMHO, it's not as easy for him to buy another/switch/sell rifles as it is for a US resident - so he's most likely gonna keep that M99 for a looong time, so say nothing about his vision/sighting requirements.

.
Pete44ru, with all due respect, I did read his post. I'm just posting an opinion much like the thousands of other opinions posted here.
revolvergeek
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by revolvergeek »

Retro,

Did you get it set up yet? I would love to see how it turned out.

Regards,
Danny
scarville
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by scarville »

I have that cross dominance problem too. For me the forward mounted scope made a big difference.

When I bought my BLR takedown I originally intended to put a conventional over the receiver scope on it. Probably a 2-7X33 like on its older brother. However, three factors contributed to trying a scout set up.

First, I had carpal tunnel relief surgery on my wrists in 2009. The surgeon warned me that, while I will be able to return to work in a few days, it may be six months before I get full strength and use back. That pretty much meant that any hunting plans for the year were out. There was no time pressure to get the rifle ready for a hunt.

Second, I already had an XS scout mount on my Marlin 1894C which I paired with a Bushnell holosight. This turned out to be a good combination.

Thirdly, Browning offers a scout mount for the take down model. So I figured, "what the heck." I could always go back to a regular scope. Because I mount my scopes as low as the rifle allows I remove the factory rear sight on the BLR anyways so there would be no loss there.

At first, I put on one of the "spare" holosights. This worked as well as expected but the lack of magnification limited me to 150 yards which, while adequate for many purposes, is well below the capability of the 308 round. I decided to try an el cheapo pistol scope just to see if this scout thing was viable. I ordered an NcStar 2-7X32 LER scope from Opticsplanet.

The weekend after the scope arrived, I mounted it to the BLR using a set of Leupold QRW rings. The first time I shouldered the rifle to check to see if the eye relief was good I noticed something remarkable.

I am right handed with a left dominant eye -- a situation found in about one-third of all right handed persons. In 30 years of shooting, I've tried numerous peep sights, scopes, red dots, and holosights and with every one I had the same problem: When I bring the rifle to my shoulder, my brain wants to pick the left eye image and it takes about 500 milliseconds to shift my perception and get a proper sight picture. Even with years of practice I still sometimes have to close or partially close my left eye to use any of the above sights right handed.

With the forward mounted scope my brain immediately picked out the magnified image as the correct one. I was so surprised at this that I got a rifle with a conventionally mounted scope to double check. Sure enough, with the the conventional mounting I had to concentrate to pick out the proper sight picture from the double image. With the forward mounted scope the right eye image immediately was the preferred one.

Out of curiosity, I put a Nikon 1X20 Buckmaster on the BLR. With an eye relief of 4.5 to 14 inches I could put it at about the same distance from my eye as the NcStar scope. Since the Nikon lacks any magnification, I could get an idea if it was the forward mount alone or the combination of forward mounting with magnification that was making the difference. I suspected the latter case because the holosights in the forward position on my Marlin 1894 didn't make any difference.

When I shouldered the rifle with the Nikon scope in place it was business as usual: Double image, concentrate, then see the crosshair on the target. So, for some reason, the combination of magnification and long eye relief enables my brain to shift gears fast enough that I don't know it's happening. I don't yet understand why this is so but I certainly welcome it. The scout scope in not ideal for all things and it take some getting used to. For me it was worth every minute.

The rifle now sports a Leupold 2.5X28 which is the Cadillac of scout scopes though it could be improved on. An option from the custom shop for an etched reticule and illumination module would be a big step it that direction.

If you are not sure about the forward mount, get the above mentioned NcStar scope and give it a try.

(Updated from a a post on my blog at http://parabarbarian.blogspot.com/2009/ ... ncept.html)
What most people call a "right" is the equivalent of a dog walking on a leash. Just because your leash is a little longer than the other dogs' does not mean you don't have a master.
Retro
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by Retro »

nemhed, it's a 99EG from 1949, not drilled and tapped for a scope. And no, I don't want to do anything permanent to it, which is completely irrational [1], but hey.

But I also want to shoot it, and at the range a 300 Savage is effective, for me, that means a scope is essential.

So I'm waiting for some rails from Brownells (think months, not days, revolvergeek, seeing as I'm on a different continent and all). I'm going to try to use the existing rear sight base. Will post here if and when I get something working.

Scarville, I too am looking at some kind of a red dot sight (I do have a few handgun scopes lying around, came of T/Cs the guys had set up for hunting which I converted back to open sights for silhouette shooting -- will try those too). Did you guys know that Brownells won't sell me a red dot sight? Something to do with export control... I suspect they're just being extra careful. Thanks for the tip on the NcStar.

Edit: Hmmm, looks like Optics Planet won't sell me a scope either. Requires an export licence. Gads.

[1] Irrational, because USA government makes it very very difficult to send a rifle back your way, and our government wants to and will probably some day succeed in melting the thing down, and whether they melt it with or without scope holes doesn't matter...
scarville
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by scarville »

Retro wrote:Scarville, I too am looking at some kind of a red dot sight (I do have a few handgun scopes lying around, came of T/Cs the guys had set up for hunting which I converted back to open sights for silhouette shooting -- will try those too). Did you guys know that Brownells won't sell me a red dot sight? Something to do with export control... I suspect they're just being extra careful. Thanks for the tip on the NcStar.

Edit: Hmmm, looks like Optics Planet won't sell me a scope either. Requires an export licence. Gads..
Sorry, I didn't realize you were in South Africa.

I only recommended the NcStar because it is a cheap way to see if a log eye relief (LER) scope is right for you. It is not a scope I recommend for beating around in the deserts or mountains. The one I have held up to about 60 rounds from my BLR before I swapped it out for a Leupold but I've read about scopes that fell apart after the first few rounds. Apparently the quality control is not too good. That scope now sets on a Ruger 10/22 "scout rifle" where recoil and reliability are not big issues.

If you do like the LER scopes and plan on using the rifle for any serious work then the Leupold 2.5x28 or the Burris 2.75x20 will give you much better service.

Depending on your eye relief needs, a handgun scope may work too. Generally they have too much eye relief for a scout rifle but you might get lucky. Some people have reported good results with the Bushnell Trophy 2-6x32 but I have no personal experience with it.

I did some digging and found the following. They might be able to help with a scope.

NcStar: http://www.b-n-t.co.za
Leupold: http://www.formalito.co.za
What most people call a "right" is the equivalent of a dog walking on a leash. Just because your leash is a little longer than the other dogs' does not mean you don't have a master.
Retro
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by Retro »

10 year update :-)

OK, so my licence for the Savage 99 was going to expire* and in the mean time I had acquired another 99 in 22HP (and in the mean time I have become a licenced dealer, so I can now actually evaluate guns before applying for a licence) so I sold the 300 Savage 99 (still in pristine, undrilled condition -- but no idea what the new owner might get up to).

And then I ran into another 99, this one in 308 Win with the box magazine and the safety on the tang. Cost me R100 which (believe it or not) is something like $7 US. Bargain of the year. And it's factory drilled and tapped, and I still have a Weaver 14 and 19 from 10 years ago, so I am off to the range sometime to check it out (which as I mentioned I am allowed to do because dealer).

And then I shall licence it because I'm not allowed to use my dealer status to collect firearms in my personal capacity.

On the 300 Savage 99 the rear sight is dovetailed. On the 308 Win 99 there are two holes drilled and tapped (rifle came without rear sight and without front sight blade) so that gives me space to fit a rail for a medium eye relief scope, if I go that way I shall come back here and post more (reason I'm posting this update is I googled "Savage 99 leverscout" and this is the only thing I could find).

* Oh I didn't tell you that after jumping through all the hoops to get a licence it needs to be renewed every ten years. And if the renewal is denied, you end up in a situation where you can't sell the gun, so you basically have to hand it in...
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gamekeeper
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by gamekeeper »

Welcome back... :D

Sounds like you have more complicated gun laws than we do in the UK, I just renewed my licences for shotguns and rifles, good for five years but a lot of jumping through hoops.
Congratulations on your BARGAIN of the year Savage 99...... :D hard to get licence's can mean really cheap second hand guns.
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AmBraCol
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by AmBraCol »

Welcome back to the forum! Congratulations on the dealer status. Having to relicense firearms is a real pain in the posterior for those of us who reside in police states.
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AJMD429
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by AJMD429 »

Retro - gold star for putting up with AWFUL gun laws.

Glad the ‘pristine’ Savage didn’t have to be altered, although guns are for shooting, not just lookin’ at...

Scarville- I missed your fascinating cross-dominance post 12 years ago. Fascinating.
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KeithNyst
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Re: Savage '99 "leverscout"

Post by KeithNyst »

Just an FYI, for older Savage 1899/99s a fellow makes a mount called the Lightfoot Mount that is a no drill scope mount. It uses the rear sight dovetail and the rear tang screw taps. Any modern scope can be mounted.
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