Bad Reload = Blown Up Marlin

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:04 pm

I dont understand how this works. 86'er posted these photos and explained, I thought very clearly, that the problem was caused by a bullet stuck in the barrel. I am under the impression he knew the shooter personally and had examined the rifle carefully and had taken the photos. He didnt say "might have been caused" he said it was caused.

Now, from all over cyberspace, a committee has seemingly decided that the problem really was the fault of careless reloading.

I am under the impression that Mr. 86'er is quite knowledgeable when it comes to firearms and probably knows what he is talking about, yet several on this thread are flying the BS flag. What's up with that??

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:35 pm

jnyork wrote:I dont understand how this works. 86'er posted these photos and explained, I thought very clearly, that the problem was caused by a bullet stuck in the barrel. I am under the impression he knew the shooter personally and had examined the rifle carefully and had taken the photos. He didnt say "might have been caused" he said it was caused.

Now, from all over cyberspace, a committee has seemingly decided that the problem really was the fault of careless reloading.

I am under the impression that Mr. 86'er is quite knowledgeable when it comes to firearms and probably knows what he is talking about, yet several on this thread are flying the BS flag. What's up with that??

I think the "committee" as you put it are looking for signs that a bullet was lodged in the barrel, ie a bulge where the next bullet impacted the previous bullet. And if you'll look real close there isn't any. The rifle blew right at the chamber. Most over charges blow at the chamber.
BUT~ my take on this is that the long tapered bullet could have been driven far enough into the barrel by the primer or a squib load to allow the next round to chamber. Then when the next round was fired the bullet simply had no place to go so ... KABOOM!

That is my take on it, based on what information 86er gave, and the fact that my one and only powder less round happened in my Win 94 AE Trapper with a blunt hard cast RNFP and it did not make it all the way into the rifling.

Squib bullet.JPG

The primer by itself wasn't enough. Thus the next round could not fully chamber, it only needed a 1/8" more though. Had it been a bullet with a long tapered nose, the next round could have chambered with catastrophic results when fired.

JMHO

Joe

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:50 pm

jnyork wrote:I dont understand how this works. 86'er posted these photos and explained, I thought very clearly, that the problem was caused by a bullet stuck in the barrel. I am under the impression he knew the shooter personally and had examined the rifle carefully and had taken the photos. He didnt say "might have been caused" he said it was caused.

Now, from all over cyberspace, a committee has seemingly decided that the problem really was the fault of careless reloading.

I am under the impression that Mr. 86'er is quite knowledgeable when it comes to firearms and probably knows what he is talking about, yet several on this thread are flying the BS flag. What's up with that??

Nope: 86er said:

Seems like an undercharge put the bullet in the barrel but it didn't exit. Next shot blew up the gun. My buddy only lost two fingers. Not bad considering. Look how thin the receiver and barrel is. Oh boy.......

Later 86er said he knew of the guy that blew up the rifle but wasn't there and the guy that blew it up was a friend of 86er's buddy.

Nowhere did 86er say he took the pictures. I get the impression that 86er got the pictures from his buddy.

86er - What say you?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:14 pm

86er,
Condolences to the shooter, as others have said... severe injury with the loss of two fingers, but... it could have been much worse. And NOTHING wrong with his choice of tools. Failure to check for powder or double charge is the leading cause of blown up guns. Failing to recognize the extremely light prior load also a major factor. It's one of the reasons I take "Range Officer'in" at our cowboy matches so seriously. The speed some of these guys run at makes it very critical you're paying close attention.

Also, those "thin" parts likely saved the shooter from facial injury or death as the force of the explosion went radially in front of the bolt, instead of thrusting the bolt backward.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:16 pm

Heres' another thread on it.http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... 117.0.html

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:24 pm

Well,

86er is probably spot on. That and has proven several times here that he is more knowledgeable than others. Give the guy some credit before tearing his post apart. My dad had a brand new 1895 marlin cowboy blow up on him in the exact same fashion. He is a very experience hunter, shooter and reloader. He's been doing so for over 50 years. I wish I could still find the pictures but from what they could collect, it looked exactly as his pictures do. He was lucky as he had his non firing hand back on the butt stock and the rifle resting on a sand bag. He was very lucky that he didn't loose any of his fingers. This was just after Winchester stopped producing the 94 and I posted this on the old forum for you that have been around for awhile. He was shooting factory Remington 405 go bullets. About half way through the box, the gun blew up. There was no stuck round in his barrel. It turned out to be part of the orange follower sheared off when the carrier came up. This sent it directly in front of the bullet and lodged itself just ahead of the chamber. The round did chamber. When looking at the barrel and receiver of a 1895, you can see for yourself that the barrel threads and receiver are very thin. His barrel did not bulge. It blew like a banana. There was also orange plastic in the lands and grooves and the follower was missing the tip.

Now when I posted this on the old forum, I was new. I was told I didn't know what I was talking about and I was full of it. I was told Marlin would never put a product out like that. I was also told that I should watch what I say because we don't want another good levergun company to go out of business like Winchester. It sounded like a witch hunt.

Well, the gun did go back to Marlin in a box so they could inspect it. They came to the same conclusion as he did. About a year and a half later, dad was contacted by Marlin and asked if he wanted a replacement gun or a check. He chose the check. You are more than welcome to contact Marlin as they will tell you the same thing.

I am not knocking Marlin as I own quite a few. But like others have said, the barrel threads and chamber area are thin along with the receiver. A bore obstruction will not always bulge the barrel.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:25 pm

A RIFLE LIKE THAT ONE IS ONLY DESTROYED BY OVERWHELMING EXCESSIVE PRESSURE. USUALLY THIS IS ACCOMPLISHED BY FAR TOO MUCH OF THE WRONG FAR-TOO-FAST PROPELLENT. THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE FELLOW WHO MISTOOK AA#7 FOR THE RIFLE POWDER OF THE SAME NUMBER.
IT WAS NOT DONE BY A BULLET STUCK IN THE CHAMBER OR BARREL BEING STRUCK BY ANOTHER BULLET, UNLESS OF COURSE THE THE ROUND FIRED BEHIND THE BULLET IN THE BARREL IS LOADED WITH THE FULL CHARGE OF THE WRONG PROPELLENT. IT IS STILL OVERWHELMINGLY HIGH PRESSURE THAT T-TOTALLY DESTROYS A RIFLE LIKE THAT.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:42 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:A RIFLE LIKE THAT ONE IS ONLY DESTROYED BY OVERWHELMING EXCESSIVE PRESSURE. USUALLY THIS IS ACCOMPLISHED BY FAR TOO MUCH OF THE WRONG FAR-TOO-FAST PROPELLENT. THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE FELLOW WHO MISTOOK AA#7 FOR THE RIFLE POWDER OF THE SAME NUMBER.
IT WAS NOT DONE BY A BULLET STUCK IN THE CHAMBER OR BARREL BEING STRUCK BY ANOTHER BULLET, UNLESS OF COURSE THE THE ROUND FIRED BEHIND THE BULLET IN THE BARREL IS LOADED WITH THE FULL CHARGE OF THE WRONG PROPELLENT. IT IS STILL OVERWHELMINGLY HIGH PRESSURE THAT T-TOTALLY DESTROYS A RIFLE LIKE THAT.

So you are claiming that a plugged barrel with a normally charged round fired into it would not over pressure? Are we ignorning physics again or what?

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:15 pm

As countless bulged barrels show, when there is a stuck bullet in the bore, it will bulge (or split) at that location, not the chamber. Of course, in a scenario such as Mich Hunter pointed out, if the obstruction is right at the throat, then the chamber may well fail, as in the case he mentioned. Keep in mind that as the second bullet moves down the bore, the volume of gases behind the bullet is decreasing at a dramatic rate, as well as the pressure. If the starting pressure is 40,000 psi, 10" down the bore the volume may be 8 times what it was when the cartridge fired, and the pressure will be down to just 5,000 psi. The further down the bore the stuck bullet is, the less likely you will have a blow up and the more likely you will end up with a bulged barrel. Judging by all the old Winchesters I've seen for sale with bulged barrels, (and those barrels were weaker steel than we have nowadays), the bulges always occur at the location of the stuck bullet, not way back at the chamber.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:52 pm

As I posted on the MarlinOwners Forum... I'd suspect a round loaded TO or above max for the Marlin action AND an obstructed bore at the throat. If those boolits are more than .002" over groove diamter, a large rifle primer may not move them very far.

I can't dispute Terry's assertion... as he has much more experience than I, (his bone fides are impeccable), but a combination of circumstances is VERY likely! I doubt any single factor caused the exploding rifle, but a series contributing factors led to the result.

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:56 pm

What about a squib load where the bullet just leaves the case, then the next round comes in and the stuck bullet sits directly in front of, and in contact with, the next bullet? You have essentially a double-weight bullet with what is then a major overcharge. Without anyone having determined where the squib bullet was, it's possible. NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE.

Alan Wood · Post by **Alan Wood** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:05 am

JustaJeepGuy wrote:What about a squib load where the bullet just leaves the case, then the next round comes in and the stuck bullet sits directly in front of, and in contact with, the next bullet? You have essentially a double-weight bullet with what is then a major overcharge. Without anyone having determined where the squib bullet was, it's possible. NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE.

And if the squib moves a little less the bullet of the next round may get pushed back in the case raising the pressure even higher.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:13 am

This one blew with an apparent Secondary Explosion Effect when it appeared that the bullet was kicked a couple inches down the barrel then the charge went off fully. But you can see the rupture occurs in the barrel a couple inches down and peels back.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:48 am

Man oh Man !

I think I will be using my H&R synthetic Handi Rifle for a while

Break it open after each shot look down the barrel!
Yep, its clear--OK to try another one!!!

Good Lord !!!!!!!

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:26 am

Yep, keeps ya primers up in the tray till charged!

Nath

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:49 am

That'll buff right out!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:07 am

Travis Morgan wrote:That'll buff right out!

I don't know .... you might also have to use some Duct Tape.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:16 am

JB weld all polished up would blend things together right nicely

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:22 am

Don McDowell wrote:JB weld all polished up would blend things together right nicely

Yeah, just swirl the colors a little bit, and you could convince folks it was one of those idiotic finishes you can get from Wild West Guns or one of those other outfits!

Truck bed liner just don't look right on a levergun, IMHO.

Antietamgw · Post by **Antietamgw** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:48 am

Back in the early '70's I worked in a gunshop that handled warranty repairs for all the major manufacturers, including Marlin. A regular customer brought in a 336 in .30-30 that was "locked up", couldn't open the lever. Seems his son had decided to use dad's stuff and reload a few .30-30's. He scooped a casefull of Red Dot and seated a bullet. The result of shooting was that the barrel shank and reciever swelled, extractor was bits and pieces, case of course had blown primer and sort of welded the bolt in place. Boss called the Marlin Rep who stopped in, anxious to see it. They were able to pull the barrel and disassemble without much additional damage. We were all impressed and surprised with the way the Marlin held together, course there wasn't any bore obstruction to deal with either. The owner was local and was called. He and his son came in to see it. The Marlin rep bought supper for the shop that night and gave the kid a Lyman reloading manuel. I think his dad gave the kid a kick in the backside. I have no idea what pressure was generated but it must have been tremendous.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:02 am

I bet that kid's still telling the story about the whuppin' he got for that!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:15 am

Old Savage wrote:This one blew with an apparent Secondary Explosion Effect when it appeared that the bullet was kicked a couple inches down the barrel then the charge went off fully. But you can see the rupture occurs in the barrel a couple inches down and peels back.

Just out of curiosity, what was that gun chambered in...?

It does seem we see mostly .45-70's blow up, and I suppose that could either be they are more likely to be hot-loaded, or just less metal than the smaller rounds.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:19 pm

This was one of those Wildcats on the 348 cartridge. He had fired thousands of rounds through it and had pages of reloading notes. Used pistol primers. I appeared to be a stall where the bullet was kicked a couple of inches into the barrel then the charge fully ignited.

I repeat as a question - any of these occurred in 45-70 with factory ammo?

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 4:06 pm

Old Savage wrote: I repeat as a question - any of these occurred in 45-70 with factory ammo?

Never heard of one OS. I'm of the opinion theres just a much smaller margin of saftey because of how little metal is left around the chamber. No big deal at 40,000psi, kablooey at 65,000 when a smaller bore might have not come apart. I just picked those numbers from the air as a for instance.

cas · Post by **cas** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 10:55 pm

It's been too many years, I don't remember what killed this one, but they look identical.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:17 pm

86er,

I just noticed this:

in the upper right side of the larger pricture you posted in the OP:

The boolit definitely sustained damage to it's base, yet the nose appears relatively intact. Was this the obstruction? And, I must assume that is another portion of the case from the chamber.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:27 pm

Leverdude - I am inclined to go with your thinking.

w30wcf · Post by **w30wcf** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:41 pm

Charles wrote:I don't buy the stuck bullet story. I have seen some of those and a bulged barrel or frozen action is all you get. Rifles don't turn into grenades with bullets in the barrel. Hatcher in is notebook talks about experments the Army did with the 03 Springfield and bullets lodged in the barrel follow by a full snort round. They used up to six bullets in the barrel and still no blown up rifles.

What happened to the Marlin in the pics was an overload of monster porportions. I am glad the guy who did it is not dead, but the fool should wear some kind of ankle bracelet that locks up every loading press within 50 feet of him.

I totally agree with Charles. I have seen pics of 2 blown rifles......both .30-30's. In both cases, the reloads produced very high pressures as a result of using way to much of fast burning powder. The barrels came apart in the same fashion as this Marlin and both receivers were also splayed.....the same as this Marlin.

One of the rifles was on the old Marlin Talk forum. The fellow had mistakenly loaded 30 grs. of AA7 instead of 4064

The other one was a Winchester 94 and the the dissected reloads contained way too much Unique powder.

w30wcf

cas · Post by **cas** » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:48 pm

Griff wrote:86er,
The boolit definitely sustained damage to it's base, yet the nose appears relatively intact. Was this the obstruction? And, I must assume that is another portion of the case from the chamber.

One of two things; That's a bullet from the magazine tube.

or the bullet didn't go anywhere because the gun came apart. I don't see that happening.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:12 am

Am I the only one capable of just thinking, "darn! That gun got messed up! I hope the shooter's okay. This is why I need to pay extra attention when I reload or handle guns."?

It's like a CSI convention in here! (NOT directed at any one person!)

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:29 am

Am I the only one capable of just thinking, "darn! That gun got messed up! I hope the shooter's okay. This is why I need to pay extra attention when I reload or handle guns."?

we took care of that last week, now it's time to analyze what may have happened and tell related stories.

I'm trying to remember one phenomenon I read about, but it was nasty. Maybe it was from two bullets in a bottleneck case. What happens is the second bullet obturates to the shape of the shoulder and becomes a super-sealing plug right in the chamber.

Ouch.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:52 am

Don McDowell wrote:JB weld all polished up would blend things together right nicely

I think I bought one of those at a gun show one time...

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:10 am

What is striking me as extremely curious on this deal. Is that the simple fact of the matter on the 2 or 3 boards this came up on before it made its way to here, lots of folks have asked the same question...WHAT WAS THE LOAD BEING USED?
You know what? none of the folks that posted this as being from their friend or shooting pardner , or whosomeever, has seen fit to produce load information. Seems some one would of sallied forth with that info by now

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:15 am

Old Savage wrote:Leverdude - I am inclined to go with your thinking.

Me too. It seems like the actions do well with 'reasonable' loads, but that the margin of safety shrinks as you get larger diameter cases. Bolt-thrust increases, depending on case taper, as well as head diameter, but without being a physicist, I'd bet the curve of stress on the chamber and threaded area of the receiver rises exponentially as the case diameter nears the diameter of the barrel.

There is only 0.034" more steel around the .444 Marlin than the .45-70, but when you're only dealing with chamber walls a little over 0.100" to begin with, I could see how it would make a difference. I remember a friend using a double-charged .30 Carbine round in the Ruger Blackhawk, and it didn't phase the gun, even though the brass case head was mangled beyond recognition. There is alot of steel around that little tiny chamber - I'll bet the same pressure level with a .45 Colt or Casull overcharge would have been more likely to rupture the gun.

What I'd like to see is a NEW gun receiver based on the Marlin 94 or Winchester 92, scaled UP just enough to give the same 'beef' around the chamber for the .50 caliber rounds as they have for the .36 caliber rounds. Enough so that you could have a good margin of safety with .475 Linebaugh or .500 S&W in them. I would think a metallurgist and engineer could easily calculate how much scaling up you'd need for that margin, and the designs are evidently long off patent for the Winchester, and Marlin would be making their 'own' gun.

Of course, there isn't anything I know of a 'stock' .45-70 or .444 long action won't kill 'dead right there' if you use the right bullet and hit the right place. For that matter, not a whole lot the .44 Mag isn't capable of, with proper bullet and placement.

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:48 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Old Savage wrote:Leverdude - I am inclined to go with your thinking.
Me too. It seems like the actions do well with 'reasonable' loads, but that the margin of safety shrinks as you get larger diameter cases. Bolt-thrust increases, depending on case taper, as well as head diameter, but without being a physicist, I'd bet the curve of stress on the chamber and threaded area of the receiver rises exponentially as the case diameter nears the diameter of the barrel.

There is only 0.034" more steel around the .444 Marlin than the .45-70, but when you're only dealing with chamber walls a little over 0.100" to begin with, I could see how it would make a difference. I remember a friend using a double-charged .30 Carbine round in the Ruger Blackhawk, and it didn't phase the gun, even though the brass case head was mangled beyond recognition. There is alot of steel around that little tiny chamber - I'll bet the same pressure level with a .45 Colt or Casull overcharge would have been more likely to rupture the gun.

What I'd like to see is a NEW gun receiver based on the Marlin 94 or Winchester 92, scaled UP just enough to give the same 'beef' around the chamber for the .50 caliber rounds as they have for the .36 caliber rounds. Enough so that you could have a good margin of safety with .475 Linebaugh or .500 S&W in them. I would think a metallurgist and engineer could easily calculate how much scaling up you'd need for that margin, and the designs are evidently long off patent for the Winchester, and Marlin would be making their 'own' gun.

Of course, there isn't anything I know of a 'stock' .45-70 or .444 long action won't kill 'dead right there' if you use the right bullet and hit the right place. For that matter, not a whole lot the .44 Mag isn't capable of, with proper bullet and placement.

I think it'd be great if Marlin just made a third action size like they used to. But I understand them wanting to use the same recievers as much as possible.
Has any of these blown up guns been a .450 with the "V" threads?

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:08 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
I remember a friend using a double-charged .30 Carbine round in the Ruger Blackhawk, and it didn't phase the gun, even though the brass case head was mangled beyond recognition. There is alot of steel around that little tiny chamber

I'll bet that was LOUD AS HELL!

Enoch · Post by **Enoch** » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:50 pm

WOW ! This is a classic example of using fluffy, slow burning powders that fill the case with the original charge. I made up different size and lengths of doweling to check because of this very problem. It's almost impossible to know for sure that your bullet has left the barrel every time you shoot. I either am sticking a length of maple doweling down my barrel or I'm tilting my open action skywards as I stare into my barrel to make sure I'm not going to be wearing a bolt around my new dentures. Some of the fella's at the range think I'm shy a few bricks cause I'm always staring into a gun barrel. I'd rather look the part then have this happen to me. God help this poor gent who went through this.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:48 am

Enoch wrote: It's almost impossible to know for sure that your bullet has left the barrel every time you shoot.

I see you are a very careful man. In your case, it might be a worthwhile experiment to deliberately load a cartridge with a load too weak to push the bullet out of the barrel and then fire it, just to feel and hear the difference between a bullet leaving the barrel and one not leaving the barrel. Do not do this with a jacketed bullet, but use a cast bullet so that you can tap the bullet back out of the bore with one of your wooden dowelings. I think you will notice a significant difference in recoil (there should be almost none) and sound (much reduced). Once you get the feel of a squib load that does not leave the barrel, you may find that you do not have to check the bore after each shot to see if the bullet left the barrel.

Redhawk1 · Post by **Redhawk1** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:51 am

That is why I am so anal when I reload. I don't like pushing the envelope either.

86er · Post by **86er** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:06 am

jnyork made a very good point in his post - I said a bullet was stuck in the barrel. I was asssured that is what happened. The shooter said one round didn't seem right but couldn't put his finger on it. An empty ejected and the next round caused the damage. It was not a LOAD that was too much. It was a bullet that stuck in the barrel just forward of the chamber. Another comment I liked was that several folks, including Mic have written about the inherent weaknesses of the Marlin and specifically what they are. Some of those attributes contributed to the overall results in this case.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:14 am

Sure scares the begeebers out'a me!

Maybe this is why Marlin felt the necessity to come out with the .450M????

Second, I've been lucky once or twice in my time that I have been fortunate to ascertain something just wasn't right. Caught a 240 gr SWC (in my .44 mag '94 Trapper)that should've been loaded with 9 grains of Unique, light loaded that caused the bullet to seat just into the rifling in front of the chamber. The shot just didn't feel correct, it had a slight secondary recoil and I noticed that there was not a wiff of smoke out of the muzzle, I blew into the chamber and noth'n came out of the other end. Look'd down the barrel and not seeing any light, shoved a cleaning rod into it. Definite obstruction! Turns out that out of a hundred rounds loaded, five had for some reason only aprroximately 3 grains of Unique in 'em. Last time I used my 550 Dillon.

Third, not a scientist or anything, but isn't it possible that a secondary "back" blow caused by ignition of unburned powder due to lack of initial pressure? It is one of the inherent issues of "light" loads, especially in larger case sizes. Since a heavy crimped bullet only takes 10k of psi to begin movement and alot less if not heavily crimped (my Trapdoor loads begin movement at less than 5k psi, you can check this by knowing you hammer speed and bullet weight when you pull bullets, at 240fps you generate over 6k psi with a 435grain bullet), but it takes X number of pressure to gain full burn (remember, smokless) and it does not generate that before the bullet has sufficient force to overcome bore resistance (determined by rifling diameter, bullet weight, and length), the burn will reverse and find the point of least resistance. I noticed what looks like alot of unburned powder on the parts.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:02 am

I have read that blowups have happened before when shooting very light loads of Bullseye in handguns, but I have never personally known of it happening. However, when shooting big cases with tiny loads of powder, the primer flash will streak across the top of the powder, and might cause problems.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:32 pm

86er wrote:It was a bullet that stuck in the barrel just forward of the chamber.

That will blow the chamber, especially if it occurs in a not-overly-robust chamber/receiver or a less-than-mild load is being used.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:53 pm

I too use wooden dowels, especially before starting. Haven't had any squib loads yet. I weigh and pour each one individually.

There's also that little orange "J" for checking bores. It's a fiber-optic, you stick it in the chamber, the bottom of the "J" collects light and when you look down the bore, you can see everything. Of course you have to look down the barrel to use it, not the thing if you have a delayed ignition.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:20 pm

86er,
Thanks for clearing this up.(at least for myself)
So we know that definetly there was a weak load.(I dont care
what else needs explaining now at this point)some could say
power/primer etc but we do know there was not enough force
to push the first round out the tube.It was too bad the shooter
didnt have the experience to check the gun.As far as I am concerned
ANY High power round would have done the same thing or worse.
This wraps up my concerns and I think at least for me enough said.

Bottom Line thats what can happen and should be a wake up call to
all reading this .
Thanks and Happy Easter to ALL!!!!!

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:26 pm

Hatcher in his Notebook says, I believe, they could shoot bullets stuck in the bore out with the next round if they were not at least 2/3 of the way down the barrel.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:36 pm

Ya right, tell him to go for it if HE thinks its safe .

and I am talking with the 7ft Easter Bunny too.
I will stand back 50ft behind a tree and watch the fireworks!!!

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:42 pm

Old Savage wrote:Hatcher in his Notebook says, I believe, they could shoot bullets stuck in the bore out with the next round if they were not at least 2/3 of the way down the barrel.

I've run into quit a few old rifles with bulged barrels, so it can be done, but I'll leave it to someone else to do the experimenting.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:09 pm

Old Time Hunter wrote:Sure scares the begeebers out'a me!

Maybe this is why Marlin felt the necessity to come out with the .450M????

Marlin brought out the 450 for two reasons. First and foremost; to make more money. Second; they recognized that many were reloading to achieve the performance levels with their 45/70 that the 450 has, so the round was for the non-reloaders.

The Marlin action is perfectly safe if you do not do something stupid with it. You know, like a double charge of pistol powder (you shouldn't be using pistol powders in a cartridge with the case size of the 45/70 to start with) or have a squib load and not check the barrel before firing another round. These are all shooter problems and not gun problems. NO ONE has ever blown up a Marlin action shooting 40,000 CUP and less loads. So to say the Marlin action is weak or bad is a lie at best and slander at the worst.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:25 pm

GOOD POINT!!!!!!