cast for hunting the big stuff

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stuffy
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cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by stuffy »

In september next year I have been invited to hunt on Cape York mostly for pigs but one of the chores is to hunt scrub bulls and water buffalo that refuse to be mustered. :D So my question is I want to use a hard cast bullet and Iam thinking of a 0.360" 300grain mould from cast bullet engineering.Having only a little experience casting lead I would like to know pros and cons of brass moulds and if you think it will stabilise in remingtons standard 1-16 twist. Heres a link to the design it's in the bottom row[url][http://www.theammodump.com/cbe_103.jpg/url]
Thanks Stuart
WCF3030
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by WCF3030 »

I'm not a casting expert but what caliber are you using?
Those scrub bulls and water buffs are some tough customers.
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stuffy
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by stuffy »

Sorry the plan is to use a 35 whelen. The group i'm going with have turned to bowhunters and let their rifles go. After a couple of close calls I got an invite if I take the cranky ones :shock:
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kimwcook
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by kimwcook »

How's your health insurance?

Water buffalo are tough. And, what's a scrub bull?
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O.S.O.K.
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by O.S.O.K. »

Image

Brass dies are very nice and will drop nice bullets for you. That design looks very good too - nice flat nose and is long, long, long for penetration. Gas check is a good idea for accuracy and a clean bore.

You can push this to get 2200 fps but I'd keep it closer to 2000 myself. I recommend Lee's .359" sizing die kit which pushes the bullets from the bottom and seats the gas check in the same action. Uses a standard press. This is the best method for accuracy. They come with a bottle of their excellent Liquid Alox as well - which will serve you very well with this - I use it for all of my cast rifle loads and its works excellent - and they are mostly heavy for caliber like this one. Just whipe the noses off the loaded rounds (the lube does you no good there) as the lube is sticky and will gather debris.

I'd recommend using linotype for your casting alloy - you want a tough bullet.

As far as loads, I found a few for you to try with this:

AA2495 start at 43 grains and work up to 46 grains
AA4350 start at 50 and work up to 54
H-380 start at 52 and work up to 56

All should give between 1900 start to 2200 fps tops velocity - accuracy should live inbetween.

As far as the twist rate of 1:16" - assuming that that picture above is to scale and the bullet is 1.25" long, then the ideal twist rate is 1:15" - so, I'm thinking that you will be fine wit 1:16 - pretty close. But this is just based on the Greenhill formula and not my actual experience, so you would be wise to consult actual experience on this point!

Looking forward to some range reports and pics!!
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Tycer
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by Tycer »

I agree with O.S.O.K.

I'd learn the anatomy of the head of the big boys. I'd know how to brain them from every angle with a 35 cal. You'll get the penetration on body shots, a 3/4" hole through and through with hard-cast Wheel Weights, but that won't necessarily drop one, even after emptying the magazine.
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KCSO
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by KCSO »

Design your bullet with as big a meplat as will feed and cast it from 1/2 and 1/2 wheel weighs and lino. You should be able to push it to over 2300 fps with no leading and that is a good load for just about anything. if you need MORE speed go with straight lino and you could boost that up some say to 2500 fps and they will shoot like solids. I used a 200 grain bullet at 2000 fps in my Whelen and had good luck with Buffalo (American Bison)
stuffy
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by stuffy »

Water buffalo are tough. And, what's a scrub bull?
My health insurance is ok. Scrub bull is Aussie slang for feral domestic cattle. They avoid being mustersd on our larger cattle properties mostly by being very aggressive so they have little respect for humans as many of them have fought with humans on horse back or in vehicles and won. So they scare me more than water buffalos as the buffs try to get way from the hurt while the bulls try to get revenge.(both closee calls were with bulls)
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TedH
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by TedH »

Hmmm. I think I would want some more horse power. Something 45 cal or bigger and 400 gr. or more, if the plan is to stop an angered bull.
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marlinman93
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by marlinman93 »

I think your choice of caliber is fine, but I'd get pretty close with a cast bullet load like that. Keep shots to 100 yds. or less, and practice a lot with the loads you work up before heading to the field to hunt.
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Paul Jenkins
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by Paul Jenkins »

Gentlemen,
I was asked to shoot a 1500# bull black angus that had broken out of a loading chute and was rampaging through pastures. At 100 yds with a .35 Rem., I hit him the first shot 1" above the right eyebrow. It knocked him down temporarily. The next time I walked to 50 yds and shot him between the eye sockets. That put him down permanently. They are tough. That was many yrs. ago and I could'nt believe a 200 gr. .35 Rem would'nt penetrate his skull at the brow.
stuffy
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by stuffy »

I agree they are tough I have a good idea of anatomy having been around cattle most of my life (family connections) and have butchered my fair share.Also these won't be my first ferals having put bulls down with implements ranging from the back of an axe (don't ask) , 308w to 375 h&h (borrowed and long returned) My curiosity was really if I could make cast work for the job and it seems if I do my part it should
Thanks for all the replies Stuart
Tristan
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by Tristan »

The NRA offers a booklet called (IIRC) "Cast Bullet Supplement". It contains an article by C.E. Harris regarding the use of cast bullets on African game, including dangerous game.

C.E. Harris proposed his boss use cast bullets on a Safari, the results of which would then make a good article for the American Rifleman magazine. It is a great article, and if I could lay hands on my copy of the supplement, I'd make a copy of the relevant parts and email it to you.

The gist of it is, he cast some bullets intended to deform like 'softpoints', and cast some and then heat-treated, intending the second type to act as a 'solid' with little to no deformation (mushrooming).

The bullets worked as designed, but with one caveat; even though there had been a lot of detailed testing beforehand, some of the 'solids' had been subjected to rough handling in transport to the Dark Continent, and the bullets had come out of the case slightly (been pulled slightly) and these loads would tend to jam in the chamber and then pull the bullet by sticking the bullet in the lands if they were attempted to be ejected. Not confidence building. Disconcerting to say the least when tracking an animal that tends to want to stomp you if you've happened to annoy it by shooting it recently. So, if you're loading with heavy bullets for dangerous game, remember to have good case-neck tension, and crimp that bullet well!

IIRC, the Editor/Hunter was using a 375 H&H, and the bullets themselves performed well and to their expectations, the 'softpoint' mushrooming and penetrating, and the 'solid' remaining basically intact and penetrating deeply.

I don't remember what the exact alloys he settled on for his two loads were, but I recall that pure Linotype was rejected as being too hard and prone to shattering on heavy animals. The heat-treating was a fairly simple process of placing the cast bullets in an oven at a certain temprature, heating them for a period of time and then quenching them immediately in cold water. This hardens Wheelweight based alloys tremendously, while minimizing their tendency to fragment.

Have fun...

- Tristan
BigSky56
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by BigSky56 »

I use a 250 gr LBT HC/GC bullet@21 or 22 in hardness in a 34 cal works just fine on deer, elk,moose and big bears.danny
JDL
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by JDL »

Big Game=Big caliber, I'd want nothing less than .375 but, would perfer .45 cal. if I was doing the hunt. Cast tough bullets that will hold together and not shatter like 100% linotype may. If lino is you metal, cut it with 3 parts soft lead and heat treat or water drop. This will produce a bullet that is 20-22B in hardness, will expand without shattering, and give good penetration. I have tested this alloy. I'm told that common wheelweights and lead mixed half and half, water quinched or heat treated will do about the same but, I haven't tested this yet.
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Bluehawk
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Re: cast for hunting the big stuff

Post by Bluehawk »

YOu could probably contact C.E.Harris at Cast Bullet association forum on line he posts there regularly He may have some suggestions in this area
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