info on a 1892 Winchester 38-40

[JOG]

Today I picked up a Winchester model 1892. Ser.#9566X. As far as I can tell it's manufactured in 1894 or 1895.
It's been reblued some years ago, it's in 38-40 Caliber. Rifling appears to be in very good shape after a good cleaning!
No pitting with very good lands and grooves!
It has the 24-inch barrel with a full-length magazine tube. I ran a half dozen snap caps thru it.
It functions perfectly. Nice hits on the primers.

Is this rifle safe to shoot modern ammo in, or is it for black powder only?
Any info provided from experienced guys would help!
Thanks for the help gentleman!
Johnny

[OldWin]

You should be good to go with that 92. Start out with some factories or standard pressure handloads to get a feel for it. If you plan on running any volume through it, use cast or coated bullets, as it's most likely not a nickel steel barrel (it will say under the forearm). Many will say the old Lyman 401043 will push back with smokeless loads having no crimp groove. I've used this bullet for decades in many 92s, a couple 73s, and an 1889 Marlin with zero issue. Start with 8gr of Unique, and I think you'll find it will shoot fantastic. You should be able to run up to 10gr without any issues with a solid 92.
The 38-40 is my my absolute favorite short action Winchester cartridge. The guns are more dimensionally consistent and generally better shooters than comparable 44s.
Have fun Johnny! Welcome to God's 38.

[JOG]

Yes sir! Thanks for the info OldWin. It's my first jump into 38-40's!
It should be a fun shooter!
Johnny

[OldWin]

You're about to have all the fun you can with pants on. It's a great cartridge. I'm betting you'll wish you got one sooner. Every 38 I've ever had would shoot with a .401 sized slug. A 24" rifle with a good bore and crown, shooting the old Lyman bullet over 8gr of Unique should put them anywhere from a ragged hole to an inch and a half at 50 yards.
If it was just one rifle, I would just think I got lucky, but I have 7 rifles and carbines in 38, and all of them will shoot that load. Ive talked with others that have reported the same results.
I've gotten good results from my 44s, but I've had to work harder at it, and they all require something different.

[Sixgun]

Hey Johhhhnnnnyyyyyy!

Jay said it all perfectly…..only thing or two I can add is Jays load of 8 grains can stay right there…it’ll take 10 safely but no need to…….a nice woods bumming load is 5 grains of Bullseye or 6 of 231…..both for about 1,000 fps. The 8 of Unique is around 12 something. I’ve logged about 15-20, maybe 30K of the 38-40 and around 70% of these rounds used the 180 gr.Lyman truncated bullet designed for the 40 S&W. This bullet runs as slick as polished glass in any antique rifle ever made in that cartridge. Same 4 cavity mould. It also likes the 200 gr truncated cast also, in fact, it’s a bit more accurate.

Lots of guys consider bore condition the ticket to accuracy..true….but if the crown is worn by cleaning the black powder residue along with corrosive priming back in the day with a dirty metal cleaning rod the bore condition means nothing.

What I’ve learned over the half century of shooting many hundreds of the old guns is many times a well worn rifle is accurate. Funny how you said your dummies ran through perfectly..imagine that, a 130 year old gun doing what it did since it left the factory,,,,work……unlike the over priced junk made today using communist steel.

If you really want that gun to run excellent is to tie some fuzzy dice (all boxcars) to the front sight, drill a 2” hole through the buttstock so you can hang it on the coat rack at the gangsta meeting, and be sure to coat the gun with Afro Sheen…..that will make it real slick and will glow in the dark so when you run the wolf pack through the subways, da “poelice”:cans see yo. A few touches of chrome here and there with a few barbecue stains and watermelon seeds glued to the stock helps with gripping when yo out gangstaing…..——Superfly

Hey Jamal…let’s see some pics of that ‘92…tell Lackaquisha I said “hi”.

[RIHMFIRE]

You should be good to go with that 92. Start out with some factories or standard pressure handloads to get a feel for it. If you plan on running any volume through it, use cast or coated bullets, as it's most likely not a nickel steel barrel (it will say under the forearm). Many will say the old Lyman 401043 will push back with smokeless loads having no crimp groove. I've used this bullet for decades in many 92s, a couple 73s, and an 1889 Marlin with zero issue. Start with 8gr of Unique, and I think you'll find it will shoot fantastic. You should be able to run up to 10gr without any issues with a solid 92.
The 38-40 is my my absolute favorite short action Winchester cartridge. The guns are more dimensionally consistent and generally better shooters than comparable 44s.
Have fun Johnny! Welcome to God's 38.

+1

[JOG]

Thanks for all the info on proper loads for the old girl! It took quite a bit of cleaning with bore brush and patches.
The crown looks good to go. After a good bit of oil, the lever feels incredibly smooth!
It must be those double locking lugs. It's basically a scaled down 86.
John Mosses Browning had his duck in a row with this invention!
Does anyone know when they stopped making 38-40 commercially?
I do see it from time to time at my local gun shop.
Modern made Black Hills and Bullseye and a few different cowboy loads.

Like a midget at a urinal, I'll have to be on my toes to find a few boxes of vintage 180 grain Remington or Winchester rounds!
Now Six, I thought Afro Sheen was Matin Sheens illegitimate son from a torrid yet brief love affair with Shaquanna from the Bronx!
Your invited over Friday for fried gizzards, smoked collard greens, spicy wings with some cold Old English 800.
And for dessert it's my baby momma's sweet potato pie! It's guaranteed to block up your colon for a week!
Anyway, thanks again gentleman!
Johnny

[OldWin]

Yup.
T.G. Bennett asked JMB for a scaled down version of the 86 to replace the 73. Browning had a working model on Bennett's desk in a couple weeks to get a bonus and win a "bet" of sorts.
The 92 is a slick little rig. In recent years it's fallen out of favor with the CAS crowd, but the numbers don't lie. The 92 was the first Winchester to break a million units sold. It will always be my favorite. Probably cause I saw too many westerns when I was a kid. You know, where it's supposed to be 1870 but they have 92s.

[JOG]

It seems the cowboy action shooter favor the Italian. made model 73 over anything else.
I think Hollywood got hold of a few hundred Winchester 92 and used them for 30 years or more!
Although, I was watching the Big Valley this past Sunday and noticed they were using Marlin 94's.
I still watch all of the old cheesy westerns. Nothing better on the boob tube anyway!
I always wondered why so many Winchesters 94's were sold, when it seems a bit sloppy compared to the 86 and 92 Models. Now I still love my vintage 94 in 30wcf! I guess there are millions more 94's then 92's or 86 models.

[OldWin]

With all my love for the 92, there is no question that the 94 is the more positive feeder by a long shot. The 94 was a big advancement. The "sloppiness" is from the shift in pivot point of the dropping lower link. It gives mechanical advantage and shortens the lever throw in relation to cartridge length. It was a significant jump in range and power for very little weight penalty. While the 86 is powerful, its a bigger jump in weight from the 94 to 86 than the 92 to 94.
If I was limited to one lever action Winchester (God forbid!) it would have to be the 94. Probably why they made so many.

[Sixgun]

I’ve never noticed a difference in feeding qualities between any of the different models from Winchester …or Marlin as long as the cartridge was properly loaded…..sometimes a semi wadcutter can be “iffy” in the ‘92….if anything the ‘73 feeds variable bullet designs better than the ‘92.

Traveling the cowboy action circuit throughout Pa for about 15 years where speed is paramount taught me what worked and anything foreign or modern Marlins didn’t fit in the category of proper functioning. In those days anything Italian…rifle or sixgun was good for maybe 3-500 rounds before internal parts would wear out leaving the shooter holding his gun with his eyebrows raised, most always with jams that required disassembly.

In my early days of buying the old guns, I’d buy anything I could afford and some of them I wouldn’t use for tomato stakes these days but one thing that was common in all of them…they fed and shot good enough for minute-of-beer can” accuracy out to 50 meters and often to 100…….a good one was minute of beer can to 200 meters in the pistol calibers. Up at Ridgway Rifle Club I shot a 23 x 40 at metallic silhouette with an 1894 in 30-30 using cast bullets that was made in 1908…..thats 200, 300, 385 and 500 meters…….tang sights…..as the match was not NRA sanctioned we were allowed to use the bench but no rests…..

Hey Johnny…you don’t need 38-40 brass…just run a 44-40 through a FLS……I’ve been doing that for near half a century.——-006

[OldWin]

You are correct Six. I should have explained better. The 92 and 73 (especially the 73) feed fine, but are much more ammunition sensitive than the 94. At least in my experience, and thats admittedly lot less than yours old buddy.

[earlmck]

Coupla' things about reloading the 38/40. Yes, they make up real easy from a 44/40 case. But be sure there is no hint of a dent in the 44 case mouth before running it into the 38/40 die or you'll have a neck wrinkle. Doesn't take much -- you can "round out" the necks with a hand-held '06 case or similar and be good to go.

And unlike the other shooters here I have had the Lee truncated cone bullet set on down into my case when I am operating from a filled the magazine and light powder load. Wimpy neck, no crimp groove = potential setbacks. I load mine now so there is a case full of powder to keep any setback from being possible.

Great cartridge -- I have four rifles plus an old hog-leg here. Will be shooting two of them this coming week-end at our monthly shoot. Well, a grandkid will be shooting the Marlin while I get my favorite '92.

[JOG]

Gentleman your lever action knowledge is just incredible! I'm always learning from you guys!
Was the Winchester 76 a big improvement over the 73?
Was the model 76 a toggle system like the 73?
Jay, I guess I thought the 92 was somewhat of a better design due to the tight shucking of the lever!
The 94 seem a little sloppy with side-to-side movement.
The pre 64 are a bit tighter than any of the mystery metal 94's of the late 60's and 70's.
One more question, the Winchester model 64. What's the difference between the 64 and a 94?
Thanks guys!
Johnny

[KWK]

Was the model 76 a toggle system like the 73?

Pretty much just a scaled up 73. It's a big, heavy beast, but it somehow has better lines.

[OldWin]

Johnny,
Yes, the 76 is basically just a scaled up 73, still utilizing the toggle action. It's a huge rifle in relation to the size of its chamberings, much as the 73 is. However, as a black powder rifle, they were quite good and plenty strong. Disassembly is less complicated than the Browning Winchesters, making cleaning and maintenance (especially in the black powder days) easier. Especially in the field.
If I had a nickel for every time I heard about the "sloppy" 94, I could have retired at 25.
In reality, it doesn't matter, or have anything to do with quality. It's mostly due to its system of operation and the shifting of the pivot point from the dropping lower link. Only the lockup really matters in reference to being "tight".
I never even noticed this, having grown up on the 94. It was the only rifle I was really exposed to, as everyone had and used them here when I was young. I was more struck by the Marlins, once I handled them. The throw seemed long to me, with more resistance through the travel. It isn't as noticeable on the 1889 and 94, being short action. But with the 1893, 1936, 336, and 1895, it's much more pronounced. I am always a bit slower with them compared to an 1894 Winchester. I'm also no faster with a 92 than a 94, in spite of the shorter cartridge. I find I get the best results giving the slightest pause at the end of the lever stroke before returning. For whatever reason the 92 (at least for me) seems more susceptible to the bullet tip flipping up and catching the top of the chamber.

There is no practical difference between the 94 and 64.
The model 64 came about in a couple different steps as Winchester dropped the rifle version of the model 94. As full length rifle 94 sales started to drop, Winchester "dropped" the rifle, making all 94s carbines. They still made rifles, they just now called it the model 55. They made a solid frame and take down version, and kind of standardized the features. Not a lot of these were produced, as the 94 rifles before. Then in the early 30s, they once again "revamped" the rifle. Much as they did with the 1886 to the model 71, they transitioned the 55 to the model 64. Again, it was a standard configuration mirroring the 71. Pistol grip (which I detest), rapid taper 24" barrel and 2/3 mag, modified beavertail forend, shotgun butt with Townsend Whelen comb. They also spent a little more time on the triggers and the actions were usually marginally slicker than a standard carbine. They came in standard and "deer rifle" (deluxe) versions. Also a 20" "carbine" (a huge pet peeve of mine, as it's really a short rifle) version.
Oddly enough, the 64 sold better than the 55, and was a moderate success. The "last gasp" of the model 1894 rifle.

[twobit]

Today I picked up a Winchester model 1892. Ser.#9566X. As far as I can tell it's manufactured in 1894 or 1895.
It's been reblued some years ago, it's in 38-40 Caliber. Rifling appears to be in very good shape after a good cleaning!
No pitting with very good lands and grooves!
It has the 24-inch barrel with a full-length magazine tube. I ran a half dozen snap caps thru it.
It functions perfectly. Nice hits on the primers.

Is this rifle safe to shoot modern ammo in, or is it for black powder only?
Any info provided from experienced guys would help!
Thanks for the help gentleman!
Johnny

Hello Johnny,

Based on the partial serial number (why) your octagon barrel sporting rifle was actually manufactured during 1898. Can I get the last correct digit so that I can add your rifle into my research survey? It will be in the 0 to 6 range. Everyone has pretty much covered the fact that modern smokeless powder ammunition is fine to shoot in this rifle. You need to be aware that the Black Hills ammo is far inferior with regard to muzzle velocity, 800fps vs. 1200fps, compared to standard Remington or Winchester factory loaded ammo.

The Model 1892 DID NOT replace the Model 1873 rifle. The Model 1873 was in the 420000 serial number range during the year 1892. An additional +300,000 Model 1873 rifles were manufactured until the end of the production in 1918.

You can reach me at 2bitrifles@gmail.com I am happy to answer any questions.

Michael

[JOG]

Thanks for the info, Jay and Two bit!
The ser.# 95663
You guys are great!
Johnny

[twobit]

Thanks for the info, Jay and Two bit!
The ser.# 95663
You guys are great!
Johnny

Johnny,

I am always happy to help with regard to Model 1892 rifles. I own 40 of them and have looked at more than 19,400 individual rifles for my survey! I ma working on a reference website to synthesize the data I have collected. A lot of it has been possible with the help of other collectors passing along information on their rifles. Thanks for the help.

Michael

[JOG]

Yes sir, anytime!
Johnny

[JOG]

I fired my Winchester 1892 38-40 for the first time this afternoon. Shooting 180 gr RN\FP reloads a friend had laying around a few years.
I was more than happy with the accuracy at 50 yards! Somewhere around an inch to an inch and a quarter. Several rounds going thru the same holes!
Unfortunately, I had three stove pipes while moving the lever.
It's a full length Magtube so I loaded 13 rounds into the magazine tube. It has a 24-inch barrel,
It seems the rounds are pushing out of the Magtube holding the round in place at an angle while I try to feed it into the barrel.
Perhaps a new magazine spring is needed. I only fire 13 rounds due to limited time. perhaps I should only load 6 or 7 rounds.
I would fire off a few rounds, then it would stovepipe. If anybody has an opinion of what's happening, please give me some advice!
Thanks in advance gentlemen!
Johnny

[earlmck]

Johnny, that sounds like a cartridge-stop problem rather than a magazine spring problem. Open up the lever and look there on the left side where the cartridge-stop projects over just far enough to catch the rim of the following cartridge to keep it from pushing on the cartridge you are trying to chamber. See if it has good "wiggle". If not it might just be gunked up and a good sploosh of cleaner (I would probably use Hornady One-shot) will get it going. And could be a broke stop spring in which case you will get to do some gunsmithing.

[JOG]

Ok earl, she had a little movement, but not much!
I let a couple drops of Hoppe's #9 sit a few minutes.
I cleaned it out with a cute tip. A little bit of fouling.
A little oil and it seems to have more wiggle.
I ran 6 snap caps thru it without issue!
I'll clean and oil it again before I put some more rounds downrange next weekend.
Thanks very much for your help!
Johnny

[Sixgun]

Ok earl, she had a little movement, but not much!
I let a couple drops of Hoppe's #9 sit a few minutes.
I cleaned it out with a cute tip. A little bit of fouling.
A little oil and it seems to have more wiggle.
I ran 6 snap caps thru it without issue!
I'll clean and oil it again before I put some more rounds downrange next weekend.
Thanks very much for your help!
Johnny

Heeeeyyyy Johnny,
Just showing off my favorite 1892 in 38-40. Winchester Saddle ring carbine with a half mag and a near perfect bore at .401

….e

My next favorite 38-40…….all the way to the right…..Colt Lightning made in ‘88…..set trigger which is extremely rare on a Colt. This was my standard C.A. Gun for a dozen years……logged over 4,000 rounds and I can’t remember a malfunction. The one next to it, with the Oct. barrel is a 44-40 with a 2 digit serial number.

[RIHMFIRE]

Ok earl, she had a little movement, but not much!
I let a couple drops of Hoppe's #9 sit a few minutes.
I cleaned it out with a cute tip. A little bit of fouling.
A little oil and it seems to have more wiggle.
I ran 6 snap caps thru it without issue!
I'll clean and oil it again before I put some more rounds downrange next weekend.
Thanks very much for your help!
Johnny

Heeeeyyyy Johnny,
Just showing off my favorite 1892 in 38-40. Winchester Saddle ring carbine with a half mag and a near perfect bore at .401

….e

My next favorite 38-40…….all the way to the right…..Colt Lightning made in ‘88…..set trigger which is extremely rare on a Colt. This was my standard C.A. Gun for a dozen years……logged over 4,000 rounds and I can’t remember a malfunction. The one next to it, with the Oct. barrel is a 44-40 with a 2 digit serial number.

NOW WE KNOW WHO HAS BEEN HOARDING ALL THE COLT LIGHTNINGS! NICE!

[1894cfan]

BTW, IF you shoot any black powder loads in yours, be sure to spray it down with Ballistol afterwards to prevent rusting. Othias over at C&Rsenal swares by it! Been there, done that, got the T shirt!

[JOG]

Sweet 38-40 Six! Your collection amazes me!
Looking forward to putting a few dozen rounds downrange!
Johnny