POLITICS - Trading American holiday for a Muslim one!?!

[alnitak]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,397645,00.html

[El Chivo]

I think it's good that the company is being flexible for its workers, they're the ones asking for it.

Apparently there is a need for some people to work on Labor Day, and if the Muslim workers take care of this they get the other day off.

[jnyork]

It's their union, not ours. If their union voted it in, so be it.

[meanc]

I will never purchase another Tyson product.

I think we as Americans, would all be better off without this kind of erosion to the American traditions that have made this country great.

I think the unions and the corporations that bow to them would be a great place to start culling the herd.

[Old Ironsights]

I will never purchase another Tyson product...

I haven't bought Tyson since their affiliation with the Clintoons was divulged back in the 90s.

[Sixgun]

This makes me want to vomit. PC, I'm not and I say the hell with anything Muslim. This country was founded on Christian principles.--------Sixgun

[mikld]

This brings to mind a previous post about a frog in hot water (toss a frog into hot water and he'll jump out. Put it in cold water and put a fire under the pot and he'll stay there until he's cooked). Trading an established American holiday for a Muslim holiday, seems to slowly but surely erode the basic structure of The United States.

BTW, I don't remember seeing any refrence to Jewish holidays, or Asian holidays ????????

[Dosrios]

I think it's good that the company is being flexible for its workers, they're the ones asking for it.

Apparently there is a need for some people to work on Labor Day, and if the Muslim workers take care of this they get the other day off.

Is "sobenk" a nickname for "Soros?"

[Old Ironsights]

I think it's good that the company is being flexible for its workers, they're the ones asking for it.

Apparently there is a need for some people to work on Labor Day, and if the Muslim workers take care of this they get the other day off.

Is "sobenk" a nickname for "Soros?"

Uncalled for sir.

While I am a Theist/Deist, I am NOT a Religionist. All organized Religons are equally cumbersome, inadequate &/or outright silly IMO.

However, I am not anti-religion. Any American Citizen has the fundamental RIGHT to worship as they see fit so long as they injure no one.

You can paint yourself blue and worship the spotted toad in your pond for all I care.

We have long allowed Citizens with other religious calendars certain flexability. It's nice to know you can find a store open on Christmas because the proprieter is a Jew, Muslim or Athiest.

Frankly, I would be much more upset if they had agitated to "trade" Independence Day or Veterans day, but thy did not. They chose "Labor Day" .

Labor Day, the first Monday in September, is a creation of the labor movement and is dedicated to the social and economic achievements of American workers. It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and well-being of our country.

Sounds more than vaguely communist. If they want to honor Labor by Laboring, why not let them?

[Travis Morgan]

This makes me want to vomit. PC, I'm not and I say the hell with anything Muslim. This country was founded on Christian principles.--------Sixgun

Correction-This country was founded by people who wanted to be allowed to worship when they darn well pleased. Those people happened to be Christian.

[bj94]

Our country is based on religious freedom, so technically swapping holidays is purely American. If we are to believe in American freedoms then we should not have any complaints about it, in theory at least, and not start to pick and choose in the way that the liberals want to do.

[mklwhite]

Just can't find the problem here. It has been said that America was founded on Christian principles. I won't argue that. It was founded with liberty and justice for all as well. If the people in question are Americans then they are entitled to their pursuit of happiness so long as it doesn't break any other laws. Would you deny an American their rights to freedom of religion? As long as it was voted in (democracy) and they trade off with another holiday keeping it fair to the company what does it matter?

Unless the main issue is which holiday they traded off. Now as to the issue of the prayer room I would hope that one is available to either any/all religions (a neutral space) or each religion there has there own. That would be worth get ruffled feathers over if there were not.

[TomD]

Freedom of religion is the big picture key. But at another level an increase in non-co-religionists is a potential problem down the road. At some point you reach a tipping point where the country is unrecognizeable. I'm not living that long, but it won't take that long to come. An example would be northern Ireland. My folks are from the protestant side, and I have no embarassment on the point, but if you were catholic the evolution of a strong pretestant comunity was not a plus, at least narrowly.

[Hagler]

...well, I like this one:

The union's national president, Stuart Appelbaum, said it is the union's job "to stand up to win respect for every worker's right to practice their faith."

Really?

The story trumpets all of the wonderful things that have been done for Muslims, but then adds this:

Lawson said that the Shelbyville plant is one of a handful that have designated prayer areas that can be used by groups of all faiths.

I guess an employee could enter that area, with his dog, and eat a ham sandwich, while praying to Jesus, right? It sounds quite silly, but a Christian would not have a problem doing that. A Jew might not want to follow that Christian. A Muslim would probably have fit over the posibillity of praying after that Christian. Who's religion gets the respect, in this situation?

Shawn

[Old Ironsights]

....I guess an employee could enter that area, with his dog, and eat a ham sandwich, while praying to Jesus, right? It sounds quite silly, but a Christian would not have a problem doing that. A Jew might not want to follow that Christian. A Muslim would probably have fit over the posibillity of praying after that Christian. Who's religion gets the respect, in this situation? Shawn

You might have a point if you could direct me to a denomination of Christianity that includes Ham Sandwiches and Dogs as fundamentially required for prayer.

Actually, I would much rather there be a designated place for Muslims to go with their mats to prostrate to the east. After all we force smokers and other undesireables into out of the way places (if smoking is permitted at all)...

Besides:
(A) I don't have to look at/listen to them (muslim prayers are not silent and ARE in Arabic - even if the Muslims in question are Somalis) and
(B) I'm not going to trip over them as they ululate to Allahackpttht.

[raven5]

I'm not an alarmist, however I am a realist. This PC trend/movement that is happening is going to be the end of us as a nation. The U.S. used to stand for something. What that is is slowly eroding and being forgotten.

Just take a look around and rather than just accepting things as news of the day or just the way things are now actually comprehend what is happening.

This makes me want to vomit. PC, I'm not and I say the hell with anything Muslim. This country was founded on Christian principles.--------Sixgun

Correction-This country was founded by people who wanted to be allowed to worship when they darn well pleased. Those people happened to be Christian.

And Travis, yes, this country was founded on the principles of freedom for everyone, equally. But it had nothing to do with 'worshiping when they darn well pleased.' The idea was that the gov't would not establish a religion. Nothing more, nothing less. It did not separate church and state as many, many 'experts' painfully reiterate. It simply said that the gov't wouldn't establish a religion. And it never has. But saying that 'those people happened to by Christian' is first of all an error in statement of fact or more accurately, truth. They didn't just happen to be Christian. They were Christians. Many of those founding fathers were devout Christians and it is evident in the language of all documents from the Revolutionary period, not just the Declaration of Independence or Constitution.

This country was founded very, very strongly under a Christian belief and believing otherwise means one hasn't studied American History very much, if at all. God, the Christian God, was prevalent and still is (although one might not think so anymore). In any court in the land, if you take the stand what do you swear on? Your grandmother? Your kids? No, the Bible. This wasn't by accident. The gov't didn't est. a religion and will let anyone worship as they want without undue recourse, however the Christian ideology was and is prevalent in our nation's ideals.

This PC trend that is happening is ridiculous.

Note the following:

1. McDonald's now has 'caution this coffee may be hot' written everywhere because some idiot tried to make people believe that she didn't know it was that hot and should have been warned, therefore Mickey D's is liable.
2. You can't smoke in a bar/nightclub because it might offend those who don't smoke (darn, and so many people bring their families to bars because it's family entertainment and so wholesome.....read the sign, adults only...)
3. Whether you support the war or not (doesn't matter for the point I'm making so either way leave it for another thread) the way we are fighting it is ridiculous. 7 rules to follow before a troop can engage the enemy after being shot at? At what point did anyone, anywhere lose track that this is WAR? There are no rules!!!!
4. It took how many years to build a WWII memorial, and it was done with mostly private money? The gov't didn't want a part of it; it wouldn't look good funding a memorial to war...

True story, found this out today:
Here's the scenario: A fellow worker in construction that I don't see too often who was/is a painter. A foreman to be exact. Due to his crew being completely Mexican and none of them being able to speak any English (which obviously he couldn't communicate with them) he was told by his boss that he had to go to school to learn to speak Spanish. He thought it was ridiculous and refused to do so. He was then shown a new/updated list of (his) job requirements, etc. New on the list was being able to speak Spanish. This is not a joke. This is real. He was then fired. Won't mention the company, but it is in Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.

Now, why do I have to go to a US Bank ATM and after inserting my card have to first choose English or Spanish??? Shoot, I'm in Cincinnati and I have to choose my language preference? How can that be??? I'm not in El Paso, or somewhere down South......

Some people need to wake up. Things are changing and not for the good. The very fabric of America is eroding and it isn't due to Bush as some would have you believe.

If the Muslims want to pray then have at it and do it on their break or lunch times. Find your own area to pray in. Accommodate yourselves.

Someone may think that

[mklwhite]

'think I'll jump back in!
The separation of church and state is indeed the separation of the state endorsed (or mandated) worship methodologies. (For fun remember it is a "separation of church and state" not "God and state" so the state can and does acknowledge God.) So to the state it does not matter if you are a tree worshiping Druid, a bush (no not "W") worshiping Reformed Druid, a person who believes that they consume the flesh of God or someone who believes that it is a cracker and it is only symbolic cannibalism of the Divine. This is not an attack or a belittlement of anyone's beliefs. It is to point out that people treat their relationship/worship to/of God in their own way. That is what is protected. The sacredness of that connection can not be forced down someone else's throat.

The founding fathers were smart enough to figure that out. Of course they had an example of how that sort of thinking (and understanding) would actually benefit the whole, but that is another topic.

[Old Ironsights]

I'm not an alarmist, however I am a realist. This PC trend/movement that is happening is going to be the end of us as a nation. The U.S. used to stand for something. What that is is slowly eroding and being forgotten.

Just take a look around and rather than just accepting things as news of the day or just the way things are now actually comprehend what is happening.

Bull. We're not talking about PC, nor are we discussing coddling Arab radicals. We're talking about Somalis in a Union which, as a Union Body, elected to do this.

This makes me want to vomit. PC, I'm not and I say the hell with anything Muslim. This country was founded on Christian principles.--------Sixgun

Correction-This country was founded by people who wanted to be allowed to worship when they darn well pleased. Those people happened to be Christian.

And Travis, yes, this country was founded on the principles of freedom for everyone, equally. But it had nothing to do with 'worshiping when they darn well pleased.' The idea was that the gov't would not establish a religion. Nothing more, nothing less. It did not separate church and state as many, many 'experts' painfully reiterate. It simply said that the gov't wouldn't establish a religion. And it never has. But saying that 'those people happened to by Christian' is first of all an error in statement of fact or more accurately, truth. They didn't just happen to be Christian. They were Christians. Many of those founding fathers were devout Christians and it is evident in the language of all documents from the Revolutionary period, not just the Declaration of Independence or Constitution.

Note the Bold. MANY. Not all. There were also MANY Jews in the US Revolution. Not insignificantly in the Banking/finance realm... where "Christians" of the era refused to treat.

This country was founded very, very strongly under a Christian belief and believing otherwise means one hasn't studied American History very much, if at all.

False. Read a bit more than what is being spoon fed you by the Christian Right. Never mind the Deists like Jefferson & Paine, JEWS had a HUGE influence in the Revolution.

Oct. 25. 1765, a group of Philadelphia merchants gathered in the State House to sign the non-importation agreement to fight the hated Stamp Tax of the British government. The first man to step forward to sign his name was the president of Mikve Israel Congregation, Philadelphia's only synagogue, Mathias Bush.

http://www.jewishmag.com/80mag/usa3/usa3.htm ... I didn't even have to search to find this tidbit.

God, the Christian God, was prevalent and still is (although one might not think so anymore). In any court in the land, if you take the stand what do you swear on? Your grandmother? Your kids? No, the Bible. This wasn't by accident.

Unless you are a Jew. Then you swear by Adonai &/or the Torah.

The gov't didn't est. a religion and will let anyone worship as they want without undue recourse, however the Christian ideology was and is prevalent in our nation's ideals.

This PC trend that is happening is ridiculous.

No argument there. But PC incorporates much more than the Ideal of letting people worship as they please so long as they hurt no one.

Note the following:

1. McDonald's now has 'caution this coffee may be hot' written everywhere because some idiot tried to make people believe that she didn't know it was that hot and should have been warned, therefore Mickey D's is liable.
2. You can't smoke in a bar/nightclub because it might offend those who don't smoke (darn, and so many people bring their families to bars because it's family entertainment and so wholesome.....read the sign, adults only...)
3. Whether you support the war or not (doesn't matter for the point I'm making so either way leave it for another thread) the way we are fighting it is ridiculous. 7 rules to follow before a troop can engage the enemy after being shot at? At what point did anyone, anywhere lose track that this is WAR? There are no rules!!!!
4. It took how many years to build a WWII memorial, and it was done with mostly private money? The gov't didn't want a part of it; it wouldn't look good funding a memorial to war...

And this has what to do with Freedom of Religion?

True story, found this out today:
Here's the scenario: A fellow worker in construction that I don't see too often who was/is a painter. A foreman to be exact. Due to his crew being completely Mexican and none of them being able to speak any English (which obviously he couldn't communicate with them) he was told by his boss that he had to go to school to learn to speak Spanish. He thought it was ridiculous and refused to do so. He was then shown a new/updated list of (his) job requirements, etc. New on the list was being able to speak Spanish. This is not a joke. This is real. He was then fired. Won't mention the company, but it is in Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.

Now, why do I have to go to a US Bank ATM and after inserting my card have to first choose English or Spanish??? Shoot, I'm in Cincinnati and I have to choose my language preference? How can that be??? I'm not in El Paso, or somewhere down South......

Some people need to wake up. Things are changing and not for the good. The very fabric of America is eroding and it isn't due to Bush as some would have you believe.

If the Muslims want to pray then have at it and do it on their break or lunch times. Find your own area to pray in. Accommodate yourselves.

Someone may think that

Again, what exactly does any of this have to do with Freedom of Religion?

Just like with the Second, if you cannot accept the 1st amendment - ALL of it - no matter what your religious beliefs are, you cannot accept the Constitution.

Read some Jefferson and Paine before telling people how "christian" the Founders were. Yes there were not a few Fundamentalists amng them... but none of THEM WROTE the document that became the foundation of our Country... that was left to "heathen/atheists" like Jefferson.

[El Chivo]

None of the examples were government entities changing official holidays. Tyson, banks, the Cincinnati company, are private companies that have the freedom to change and update their policies as they see fit.

The analogy to Jewish holidays is a good one. At our company we had a Jewish man who negotiated for Jewish holidays off as a condition of his employment. He didn't swap them, because the company was still closed on official holidays. He either used his vacation time or took them without pay.

He was only one person, in a non-union company, but he negotiated it for himself, exactly like these Somali workers.

Are some of you guys going to work yourself into a frenzy over one Jewish guy getting Jewish holidays off?

He was free to do that, and the company free not to hire him if they didn't like it. Same as this. That's all there is to it. Not an international conspiracy of Muslim fanatics.

I don't see this as a 'frog in warm water' situation, either, although you can bet that if Muslims become a majority in this country the holidays will reflect that. As they should.

Notice we don't observe American Indian holidays. Also, about our current holidays making this country great, I don't buy it. Most of our holidays are pretty recent. And also quite recent was the change so all holidays fall on a Monday, so we can have a long weekend. I remember when that started, and it was strictly for convenience sake, not tradition.

Freedom is what makes this country great, not Christian holidays falling on a Monday so you can have an extra driving day.

I'm taking St. Swithin's day off next year, for sure.

[Hagler]

OI,

I was not stating that a Christian NEEDS ham & a dog to worship Jesus. I was impressing the idea that Christians can pray anywhere they wish to, and they do not have to worry about "clean" foods & "clean" animals. A Jew may not wish to pray after the Christian has "defiled" the designated "all-faiths" prayer area. A Muslim would probably refuse to follow a Christian, who ate his ham-festooned lunch in the prayer room, while he pet his dog, and had a talk with Jesus. The Muslim, the Jew, and the Christian have different requirements, and accomodating the Christian's prayer room is the easiest. The Muslim would need that room a few times a day, and may not wish for it to be defiled. Which of these religions is respected, and which falls under having to accommodate the others?

Shawn

[donw]

where in the constitution does it say there must be a separation of church and state? i've looked and cannot find it.

this whole thing is creating on heck of a mess that may never get straightened out.

what we need to do is UNIFY and defeat those who would not allow what we are told we are guaranteed by the constitution.

i'm stunned by some of the 'comments' i read on news articles at times about "why worry about what an outdated old document says" is one that sticks in my mind i read recently.

what i read in the constitution says the government will not establish/require a religion and it will not prohibit any religon....if you want to practice islam, or any religion, that's fine...you're given that right by GOD, (controversial, argumentative and highly inflamatory to some, maybe, but not to me) not the constitution, the constitution merely affirms those rights. just do it where i am not exposed to it and try to force it on me.

BTW, i am a practicing christian. sorry if you dissapprove...

it's your choice to choose your destiny...a choice given ALL of us by God...don't agree? that's your choice...not necesssarily what's right...or wrong...

where i used to work, i objected to working nights and weekends...i was told simply: "that's ok...you're free to go work where you want. here we require nights and week ends; go to where they do not require nights and week ends."

[Travis Morgan]

Is it just me or do the ones crying the loudest sound like they're getting a sore butt over someone else getting something they didn't think to negotiate for? I believe in trying to work with folks' religions, within reason. I'm not gonna hire someone to build me a fence, and build them a chapel. Giving them a spot away from the noisy, dirty machinery where they can relax for a minute or two a few times a day sounds way better than hiring a smoker who works one handed half the day.