POLITICS - Border Update

[Charles]

Two new items of news from the Borderlands.

1. The Feds folded today on their efforts to slice off 180 acres of the Univ. of Texas at Brownsville with their pinche border fence. The Univ. will raise it's existing 8 foot chain link fence to 10 feet on the north side of the levee and place a couple of cameras there so the campus police can keep an eye on what is going on. Very good news.

2. The Central Bank of Mexico has reported that money sent into Mexico from their citizens living in the U.S. has declined for the first time in 30 years. These "remittances" are the second largest sources of funds flowing into Mexico, with the first being the sale of oil.

The Central Bank attributes this to the decline in home construction in the U.S. and the ICE crackdown on other folks who employ illegal aliens in the Unites. They are expecting this to cause a sharp rise in poverty in some areas of Mexico.

[Griff]

Thanks Charles. Always nice to hear from you and conditions at the border.

[Lefty Dude]

[Old Time Hunter]

Charles, don't know how to read this...is this good or bad?

I read this as Mexico's economy is going in the tank, due somewhat to the decline of "remittances". This decline is based economic factors that are "our" fault? Whether it be the failing housing market here, or the fact we are finally trying to make illegals, illegal? I'd raise that fence to 20' with razor wire electrified at the top and bottom....but that is just me.

Since when are "we" responsible for the "poverty" of some other country? It is probably more to do with their culture and their government than whether or not we (the US) allow illegals to steal from our well being and send it back as "remmittances". That is probably my retirement fund being sent to Mexico...I want it back here!

[JimT]

Thanks Charles.

In Africa this month I was able to see first-hand the effects (10,000 miles away) of how other people's lives are affected when the American economy declines.

Reading about it did not impact me like living with the people who are negativly impacted.

[AmBraCol]

Charles, don't know how to read this...is this good or bad?

Since when are "we" responsible for the "poverty" of some other country? It is probably more to do with their culture and their government than whether or not we (the US) allow illegals to steal from our well being and send it back as "remmittances". That is probably my retirement fund being sent to Mexico...I want it back here!

The "remitances" are simply part of the wages the illegals have earned and are sending back to their families south of the border. We aren't responsible for the poverty in Mexico, but the result of stricter enforcement of the laws will result in mexicans who will have to find another way to make a living. It's not an easy situation at all, but I believe it is headed in the right direction. I'm an expat myself, but jumped through all the hoops to live where I do and believe that anyone who wants to live in another country should do the same - go through the legal process. The US economy has a great effect on the economies of many countries, both due to legal commerce and the funds sent by foreign nationals who live in the US either legally or illegally -I know families of both classes of residents and both classes tend to help their families back home as much as they can.

[Charles]

Old Time Hunter... Whether this is good or bad depends on who you are. For the folks who want all illegal aliens run back across the border, it would be good news.

If you are the wife, children or elder parents of an illegal alien working in this country, and dependent for food on those funds, it is very bad news.

So I guess you have to decide for yourself.

I spend years living and working among the poorest of the poor in South America and their faces and pain still haunt me. Anytime anybody goes hungry, does not have medical care or decent housing, that is bad news for me. I cant see any difference between them and us...it is all just "we". But my wife calls me a "bleeding heart" and she is probably right. I will carry that title and do so willingly.

[El Chivo]

I don't know how much the decline has been, but things are getting more expensive here with gas going up so much. An extra $25 a week can cut down the remittance.

Something else happened this year as well. The ICE or other agency started requiring a form with proof of eligibility from employees this year. They handed them out at work for the first time and a few people lost their jobs because they didn't have good SS numbers (or good enough fakes). So there's a little bit of heat on, some employers (like mine) made the decision to stop hiring illegals after that.

[popeye44]

You mean the guvment is actually starting to enforce laws that help US(me&u)?
Sounds like what most other countries have been doing for years. I am all for
helping others. Having personally packed medicine and cash into China to keep
a childrens hospital/orphanage going and sending money monthly to one in
Honduras
Sounds like Mexico survives on the ant colony principle. Sending all the drones
out of the mound to forage for the QUEEN. Theres more Mexicans in Saluda SC
than Jaures Mx. Next thing we need to do is repeal NAFTA.

[Gary]

IIRC, the money flowing into Mexico each year exceeded the total cost of the war on terror.

http://www.immigrationcounters.com/index.html

[Charles]

Popeye.. The US has had laws on the books for decades that will deal with the problem of illegal workers from the employer end. For some reason, I don't understand, there has not been the political will in Washington to enforce them. Without work, 95% of the illegal workers will stay home or go home. We are seeing that at work now.

Mexico doesn't send their workers here, so the ant colony just doesn't work. Mexico has a cultural and economic system very, very different from ours. The top five percent of Mexicans are as wealthy as any Arab oil sheik. These top five percent control Mexican politics and politicians. These "Ricos" have no interest in improving the lot of the working class Mexicans, who comprise 70% of the population at the bottom. The "Ricos" maintain their wealth and position on the backs of cheap peon labor.

The folks at the bottom look North and see the opportunity to make far, far more money than they could in Mexico. So, with families to feed, they come north.

The Mexican Government does not send them North, but they do nothing to stop them as they like the money they send back going into the economy, most of which will end up in some Rico or politicians pocket somewhere down the line.

The bottom line is the average illegal worker would rather stay in Mexico with their families, if there opportunities for them earn the same wages.

Now, throw in the drug cartels and their militias who control most of the Mexican border cities. These cartels are locked down in a shooting war with the government and each other for control.

The whole thing is starting to look like 1910 all over again. If those ten to twelve million illegal workers do go back to Mexico, back to a life of abject poverty, and if those billions of dollars in "remittances" cease to flow into the Mexican economy, we will have a massive powder keg with a short lit fuse on our Southern border. If Mexico explodes in a massive 1910 type revolution, we will have problems that will make Iraq and Afghanistan look like a ladies tea party.

This just may be Chicken Little talk, but I can see the current dominoes fall in some very very unpleasant ways. Hay veremos! (we will see)

Now boys, I am NOT saying we should not enforce our laws with great vigor. I think we should. I am just saying, there will be some unintended consequences that might prove more nasty than the original problem. If 12 million Mexican go home to poverty and the billions of US dollars cease to flow into the Mexican economy, the instability this would add to an already unstable country could be enough for Mexico to reach critical mass.

When Mexico exploded in 1910 we had almost a million Mexican refugees stream into this country. The next time it will scores of millions. Something to think about.

[Jayhawker]

Charles,

The Mexican government might not actually send them across the border, but they are still accomplices when the local consulate hands out maps showing the best routes over the border, highlighting INS locations, and even posting alerts when the Border Patrol emphasizes a certain area for enforcement. There have been instances reported of the Mexican military escorting drug runners and illegal workers across the border, providing reconnaissance for the coyotes and material support. I don't know if these guys are actually active duty or moonlighting with full equipment, but you'd think their superiors would have to be aware of what's going on. Why these stories don't pass beyond the local news is curious to say the least. I seem to recall General Pershing once marching across the border for less.

[Charles]

Jayhawker... The Mexican Army has been providing escort and muscle for drug shipments since the mind of man remembereth not. I know since the 50's. Most often it is the local General or Col. moonlighting.

Nowadays the cartels have their own troops, made up of deserters from Army anti-drug troops which we have trained. There are also Israeli Mercs. doing training down there. They are equipped with the latest and best. They are now sending tactical teams into the US to kill other drug dealers who have taken refuge on this side of the border because it is too dangerous in Mexico, so they operate from this side.

Pershing did take a long hike into Mexico trying to catch Pancho Villa. Nothing much came of it, except a good field test of some new equipment which would see use in France and Belgium a few years later.

As for invading Mexico, I doubt that is a good idea. We have pretty much worn down our military trying to enforce our will on a couple of pee ant countries in the Middle East. Mexico because of it's size and 2,000 mile share border with us, would be a much, much harder nut to crack. America does not have the stomach for what it would take to dominate Mexico. Beside it would play hell with the tequila supply.

[44LVR]

This just may be Chicken Little talk, but I can see the current dominoes fall in some very very unpleasant ways. Hay veremos! (we will see)

Now boys, I am NOT saying we should not enforce our laws with great vigor. I think we should. I am just saying, there will be some unintended consequences that might prove more nasty than the original problem. If 12 million Mexican go home to poverty and the billions of US dollars cease to flow into the Mexican economy, the instability this would add to an already unstable country could be enough for Mexico to reach critical mass.

Charles, I'm curious. Since you live right on the border, have lived there for quite some time obviously you understand much more than someone like me who lives about 2000 miles away. I have just named you King of the Earth. YOU now get to make decisions for the border. What would you do, King Charles?

America does not have the stomach for what it would take to dominate Mexico.

Iraq has shown me America has no more stomach now than she did in Vietnam. And our people have just as much compassion for those we would leave behind.

44

[Blackhawk]

IIRC, the money flowing into Mexico each year exceeded the total cost of the war on terror.

http://www.immigrationcounters.com/index.html

Add to that total the war on drugs and size different is even greater.

Next thing we need to do is repeal NAFTA.

Add then some. But then again I still find the "Jurassic Park Fence" w/10KV a good idea.

Johnny

[Charles]

44LVR.... I will skip the coronation in favor of some good BBQ on the grill. There is no neat clean solution to the problem. There certainly is no solution that will make everybody happy. I think we would have to be satisfied with everybody being equally unhappy. But that said, I would look for the best outcome made up of the following.

1) Enforce our current laws to the hilt and dry up the illegal alien job market.
2) Come up with some kind of Guest Worker program that would control the numbers and make certain they were not taking jobs Americans want.

Of course this is nothing new and certainly won't solve all the issues, but would address the need of Mexico to export workers, the need of Mexico for the remittances, the need of American business for workers, and the need to control our borders and only have the folks here we want here.

Again... I am far far from being all knowing or all seeing on this issue or any other, but it is the best I can do before supper.

[Old Time Hunter]

Charles, probably because of the distance I am from that border down there, I do not see the liabilities as you state:

The whole thing is starting to look like 1910 all over again. If those ten to twelve million illegal workers do go back to Mexico, back to a life of abject poverty, and if those billions of dollars in "remittances" cease to flow into the Mexican economy, we will have a massive powder keg with a short lit fuse on our Southern border. If Mexico explodes in a massive 1910 type revolution, we will have problems that will make Iraq and Afghanistan look like a ladies tea party.

This just may be Chicken Little talk, but I can see the current dominoes fall in some very very unpleasant ways. Hay veremos! (we will see)

Now boys, I am NOT saying we should not enforce our laws with great vigor. I think we should. I am just saying, there will be some unintended consequences that might prove more nasty than the original problem. If 12 million Mexican go home to poverty and the billions of US dollars cease to flow into the Mexican economy, the instability this would add to an already unstable country could be enough for Mexico to reach critical mass.

When Mexico exploded in 1910 we had almost a million Mexican refugees stream into this country. The next time it will scores of millions. Something to think about.

If we then controlled the border, as if we were being invaded, that would effectively end migration. So therefore I would presume "scores of millions" would be stopped at the border, provided we would have real patriots down near the border. The other positive would be that it would effectively end the "Clinton" scurge of NAFTA, better know in my parts as the take from Peter and give to Jorge government plan draining one societies water glass to help fill anothers. Of course NAFTA's attributes did help "corporate" America, but it decimated the "middle" class and the small individually owned businesses. And there is an argument for the increased value of stocks or mutual funds due to NAFTA...yep, the average Joe probably increased his 401k by 5% or so, but lost his pension along with his job.

[44LVR]

1) Enforce our current laws to the hilt and dry up the illegal alien job market.
2) Come up with some kind of Guest Worker program that would control the numbers and make certain they were not taking jobs Americans want.

Cool. We are in complete agreement since that is my own personal thoughts too.

I have no problem with immigrants. I have a big problem with ILLEGAL migrants.

Thank you for your thoughts.

44

[popeye44]

Charles. If the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer in this country there may be a mass migration "SOUTH".
Our people going down there. I hear there is an acute shortage of skilled labor due to the influx of American companies
"INTO" Mexico since NAFTA. I think that anyone that supported and voted for NAFTA is a traitor to the USA. It aint helped
me or my own one bit. I bet you dont see a bunch of Mexican goods on store shelves in China.Been to China and didnt see
anyhing but Chinese goods. I say lock "EVERBODY" out of our borders. We could go back to the old way of making all the
goods we need ourselves. That means oil too. It would take lots of sacrafice from "ALL". And probably 40 years. But the
"RICH" would not let this happen because they want all our middle class to be "PEONS". Just like those in Mexico.

[Charles]

Popeye...Things always look different to different folks. NAFTA has brought great grown (economic and numeric) to the Borderlands. For us it was a God send! I know that brings no rejoicing to your heart, but it is an ill will that brings no good.

[JimT]

Frankly Charles more Americans ought to "migrate" south for a few weeks or a month, and stay away from the tourista traps. They need to visit the dumps in Mexico City and other large cities. They need to stay with some of the farmers and field hands.

Reality is the best cure for what ails us. Unfortunately, far too many will never take that leap of faith.

[AmBraCol]

Frankly Charles more Americans ought to "migrate" south for a few weeks or a month, and stay away from the tourista traps. They need to visit the dumps in Mexico City and other large cities. They need to stay with some of the farmers and field hands.

Reality is the best cure for what ails us. Unfortunately, far too many will never take that leap of faith.

Far to many have only a movie idea of what life below the border is like. The various portrayals of Colombia (Romancing the Stone, Proof of Life, etc) that I've seen show NOTHING of what the country is really like, nor do I have reason to believe that those of other countries (including the US) are anywhere near accurate - and yet folks assume that's the way things are.

The complaints about "how poor the folks in the US are" are hilarious to those of us who've walked amongst some of the world's poorest. The US is the only country I know where poor folks drive cars - their OWN cars. Folks north of the border need a reality check, that's for sure. Come and take a walk with me through some of Pereira's "mean streets" and you'll go back home thankful for the blessings received merely by "an accident of nature" as to the nation you were born in (you being a general you - not a personal one as I know you have walked amongst folks even poorer than the ones here).

I'm looking forward to hearing rjohn's report from his upcoming trip to Ethiopia. If more folks would take a trip outside the US then perhaps more would be interested in getting involved in turning our nation back to her foundations that allowed us all to be so blessed... and that ain't gonna happen via political activity, it's only gonna happen when folks turn back to The Foundation, the very Corner Stone of our nation's heritage.

[Charles]

Jim and Paul

In 1973 I was one of a group of 22 people who spent six weeks in India. We never spent one night in a hotel, but lived with the poor people of India in Bombay, Hydrabad, Bider, Bangalore, and Madras. What we saw there broke our hearts in one way and encouraged us in another. We saw great proverty and heartbreak and we also saw people just like us, who laughed, and tried to make a life with what they had. They were kind and shared with us what little they had and would not accept compensation.

Of that group of 22, 16 of us spent terms of service as Christian missionaries all around the world. I spent five year in Ecuador as a church planting evangelist working with the poorest of the poor.

Jim..you are absolutely correct that a few weeks spend with the poor of Latin America or any where else will change forever how your view life...IF...IF.. you are the kind of person that truly gives a hoot about somebody else. It is sad to say, that all to many people truly don't care about anybody but them and theirs.

Paul..you are also correct about Americans having no real sense of what in means to be poor. While meeting with some Ecuadorians indians, one of them referred to me as a rich gringo. I responded by saying that I was in no ways rich in fact I was living on a very, very poor level. He pointed to the Cross pen in my pocket (which was given to me by the Haskell Texas Garden Club for doing a Christmas program) and the Timex watch on my wrist and said none of them could ever hope to have some fine things in their life. Such things were evidence of wealth beyond their wildest dreams

I hear folks here in the US refer to themselves as poor, while living in a house with four wall and a roof that doesn't leak, drive a car, have a refrigerator, a TV set and medicine when they are sick. They have no notion of what it is like to live hungry, wet, cold and sick and no hope of anything else. When these Americans pass themselves off as poor and whine about how little they have. I just have to shake my head. They have no idea how truly blessed and fortunate they are.

It is very, very true that if folks had any contact with the urban or rural poor of the 3rd. world, they would not begrudge them a chance to work for a living wage and send money home to their families..IF..they have a heart that gives a darn in the first place. Many don't.

[Peter M. Eick]

Working in the oil industry "in the field" I go to some of the more remote poorest places in the 3rd world. It is not worth even listing them out, but the one point that has hit home to me is there is poor everywhere. No matter how hard you try to help, there is still more poor. I also watched how my help in the form of money and assets like spare camping and field gear caused no end of problems to the native families I gave it too because they are now the rich ones. Yes in general we westerners cannot even begin to conceptualize what true poverty is like.

[AmBraCol]

Working in the oil industry "in the field" I go to some of the more remote poorest places in the 3rd world. It is not worth even listing them out, but the one point that has hit home to me is there is poor everywhere. No matter how hard you try to help, there is still more poor. I also watched how my help in the form of money and assets like spare camping and field gear caused no end of problems to the native families I gave it too because they are now the rich ones. Yes in general we westerners cannot even begin to conceptualize what true poverty is like.

The hardest thing is learning how to really help. Poverty is not so much a lack of material things as it is a mindset in many cases. Lack of knowledge is one of the greatest poverties there is. Teaching people how to think and reason for themselves and helping them to obtain the means to educate themselves is the greatest way to help them escape the cycle of poverty. Few people wish to gain the knowledge necessary to do so, however. We seek people who WANT to grow and progress. It's not a hypothetical idea that I'm talking about, it's a down to earth gut feeling of "I can do better for myself and family" that is carried out in action. A good example of this mindset is a sharecropper's son I knew in Brazil. He never finished first grade, but learned to read because he wanted to study the Bible for himself - ending up with a better knowledge of it than many seminary graduates do. Anyway, he decided early on that he was going to break the cycle and was going to own his own land - and started working towards that goal. He raised goats until he had a fair flock and sold them to buy cattle. He raised cattle until he had a good herd, sold them and bought land. He lumbered the land and sold the wood to buy cattle. Raised the cattle to buy more land, etc. He worked hard - but as much with his brain (or more so) as with his body. He thought it out and worked it out. The last I knew he owned over 2,000 acres of land and close to a hundred head of cattle, had a sugar cane mill and a small flock of goats and a few families of share croppers on his place. The rest of the folks sat around talking about how crazy he was, breaking his back and working from can't see to can't see - but they paid him yearly rent on the tiny parcels of land they used, just like his dad did when he was a child. The difference? it was a mental decision to break the cycle and then it was a constant battle to be able to do so - but he did.

Just giving things does little to help. Teaching folks to think differently and helping them to work their way out does a lot more than merely dumping goods on them. Unfortunately, most folks from "first world" countries don't understand this. Several volumes of horror stories about abuses by well meaning "benefactors" who have caused untold misery could be written should one care to wander the world in search of such.

Breaking the cycle of poverty means helping folks to break their belief in the lies that shackle them.

[Charles]

Everybody has their own point of view, but I have come to believe that every human being on this planet needs three things, none of which are physical.

1) Everybody needs to be spiritual whole. For me this means a vital living relationship with God through Jesus Christ. We must know whose we are.

2) Everybody needs to be emotional whole. Folk who are emotional cripples can never experience what life was meant to be. We must know who we are.

3) Everybody needs to be mentally whole. For me, this means as much education as possible. Ignorance can keep people in bondage just like steel changes. We must be able to think with clarity.

Life is light a three legged stool and these are the legs. Keep each one in place and life will be good. Remove one, and you will fall on your butt.

Books could be and have been written on each of these, but this is the Reader's Digest version.

[Old Time Hunter]

Can't argue about the poor in 3rd world countries, but I happen to live in one of the "industrialised" countries. Yep, the good 'ole US of A and since it isn't fair to compare an apple to a grapefruit, the comparison's to me do not hold water. I figure that almost every society had the chance intitially to do good to their citizens, some did well others suck. Yet those that suck, generally will try to destroy any that did good. I.E. check out the Maya's, Inca's, and etc throughout time. It seems almost like a continous bad dream, a successful society try's to bring up an unsuccessful society (at least in the eyes of the successful) and the "unsuccessful" drags down the "successful" society. In regards to poor, poverty, or whatever, it is only poverty if those that live in it, know it, and struggle unsuccessfully to get out of it. In my apples to apples scenerio, we here in the US of A have the greatest extent of poor or people in poverty of any other similar apples. We also have a declining quality of life for the majority of our citizens. Ya'll might say; "hey, but look how rich you all are", but what good is all the riches if you do not have a life. Where else in the world does an "average" adult have to work at least 46.2 hours per week to maintain the acceptable "average" standard of living within a society? Yes, we have less people living in dirt huts, but we have more living in cardboard boxes (they were the primary ones left out in the immigration policies, they used to live in those $15 a week motels when they could work 2-3 days a week pick'n olives). I attribute this to us trying to help other countries raise their standard of living through policies such as NAFTA. Which only helped the money changers in my book...didn't trickle down to me!

Have I ever been in a destitute area of a foreign country, fortunately or should I say, unfortunately...yes. Worked as an engineer putting in sanitary and water systems in multiple areas of Mexico and Latin America (of course funded by OUR government, or should I say you worked an extra couple of hours a week so Jorge could barf in a toilet instead of the Rio Grande). Got stuck there for almost two years off and on. At first I felt compassion and thought we gotta help these people, after time I realized they only knew they were in poverty if we told 'em they were. At the end of my tour, they had flushing toilets and water out of faucets. Then they wanted us to build 'em homes to go around those flushing toilets and those usable faucets, yet they did not want to work 46.2 hours a week to acquire them, heck they did not want to work 10 hours a week to get them. At least that is what from my calculations 80% of them relayed to me!

[AmBraCol]

Life is light a three legged stool and these are the legs. Keep each one in place and life will be good. Remove one, and you will fall on your butt.

Books could be and have been written on each of these, but this is the Reader's Digest version.

I'd say you condensed it quite well.