Airplane collision at air show

[AJMD429]

.
Prayers up for the survivors, if any, and their families.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/1 ... ort-video/

[Tycer]

I saw that. That’s a serious wtf.

[Bill in Oregon]

My uncle was a tailgunner in a 17 out of England -- in on the disastrous Schweinfurt raid. Hate to see a 17 lost in this way and pray for the souls, as they all love flying so very much.

[1894cfan]

The P-63 pilot should NOT have even been in the cockpit! He came in from far enough out that he SHOULD have seen where his path was taking him, right into the fuselage of the B-17! He didn't even try to pull up! IJIT!

[Grizz]

looked deliberate to me. i stepped thru the second video and it looks intentional. if i find it on utoo i can slow it and walk it through.

[1894cfan]

Kinda have to agree with you, Grizz. Didn't even try to pull up!

[JimT]

The planes were flying circles over the airfield.
The fighters on the inside are faster than the bomber on the outside.
Each pilot watches his lead so as to keep his position.
Either the outside fighter overflew his line or the bomber crowded in or both.
But the fighter, in a tight left turn, had his belly toward the bomber and would not be able to see it.
If you look carefully at the video you can see the fighter is in a hard bank to the left.

3.JPG

1.JPG

2.JPG

Rolled that far over I am pretty sure he was looking at the flight leader and could not see the bomber.

The NTSB should be able to sort out if the fighter was out of place or the bomber or both.

[Tycer]

Thanks Jim!

[samsi]

Sad deal. We were doing ash & trash out of Conroe after Harvey in '17 and that B-17 was down for its Annual at the time, so we walked over one day and played tire kicker for a bit.

Prayers for all involved..

[jeepnik]

Sitting on runway standby I watched a Phantom and a Voodoo collide mid air. Voodoo lost it's nose cone and the Phantom lost the left wing to the hinge. It took darned good flying on the part of both pilots but both landed safely. When you're moving a couple of hundred miles an hour sometimes there just isn't time.

Pilots are a different breed. How often do we hear of them preventing a crash in a populated area? I doubt one would intentionally collide with another aircraft. Even if the pilot had a death wish they'd likely just fly it into the ground.

[stretch]

Unfortunately, if they keep crashing these things, no one is going to be able to fly 'em anymore.

Nine-O'-Nine in Connecticut, and now this one. Both preventable.

Irreplaceable lives lost, and irreplaceable aircraft lost.

Condolences to the families of the dead.

-Stretch

[jeepnik]

Let’s wait for the results of the investigation before we conclude it was preventable.

Every thing from aircraft malfunction to pilot incapacitation could have been the cause. By the way, “pilot error” usually the feds can’t find the cause.

[Rockrat]

Jeepnik has the gist of things. We think too much of Aircraft like the p-63 King Cobra and the B-17 Fortress to do such a deliberate act. The faster AC should have been on the outside of the '17's turn with his faster speed. Definitely not at the same altitude. Wonder if he was doing a high speed pass by the '17 so someone inside the AC could get a good picture?
Had a cousin that stayed in his F-4 Phantom, after flameout, so the AC wouldn't crash into buildings and injure/kill others. By the time he was safely over water, it was too late to eject.

[samsi]

Faster traffic turning inside slower traffic is bass backwards of how it should be, though it was likely not intentional. The P-63 was following the Mustang ahead of the B-17, so that's where the -63 pilot's focus was. Small objects in the windshield become big objects really fast, especially when it's a slow mover like the Fort.

The B-17 pilots were a couple of recently retired American Airlines guys, haven't seen anything on who was driving the Kingcobra. I used to know a few CAF guys, though none are still active - still upsetting though.

[JimT]

.......... Small objects in the windshield become big objects really fast ............

1967 in Korea I was a young Spec.4 crewchief. I was in the right seat of a Queen Air heading South from Seoul at about 8000 feet. The Captain flying spotted an F8 coming at us head on just as I saw it and he reacted by shoving the nose down and a hard bank. We missed by maybe a couple hundred feet and it happened so fast it was over before I hardly knew it began.

[KWK]

I think JimT has it correct. One video clip from behind and below shows the approach and impact. I doubt the P-63 had the B-17 in sight almost up to the instant of impact.

It's possible he blacked out if he had been pulling in too hard.

Sad.

[samsi]

.......... Small objects in the windshield become big objects really fast ............

1967 in Korea I was a young Spec.4 crewchief. I was in the right seat of a Queen Air heading South from Seoul at about 8000 feet. The Captain flying spotted an F8 coming at us head on just as I saw it and he reacted by shoving the nose down and a hard bank. We missed by maybe a couple hundred feet and it happened so fast it was over before I hardly knew it began.

Lucky...

I worked with guy who told me a story from Nellis, they had an F-105 come back from a bombing exercise missing a rack. Pilot said he felt a thump on bomb run. They went out to the range and found the rack - along with the remains of a Cessna 310 with 4 people in it

[44shooter]

I understand the Kingcobra has notoriously poor visibility. I saw a video from a gas station that shows a belly first descent into the bomber. In other words the bomber was ahead and under the P-63. I don’t think the pilot saw it.

[samsi]

I'm hearing that at this show they had the fighters and bombers deconflicted by altitude - fighters at 1000' and bombers at 500'. The show boss has the option to clear the fighters to descend to the lower altitude if it's clear. In this case it appears that the fighters were cleared lower prematurely.

P-63 pilot was a United 777 Captain and very experienced warbird pilot.

[Old Savage]

Here is the visibility in an SR 71. Wonder which B17 it was.

[JimT]

I think it was the Texas Raiders.

[Rube Burrows]

My brother was at this show. Just a horrible thing. Last year I went to an air show in Louisiana and had the opportunity to see the B17 plane that crashed and my son got to sit in it. My heart goes out to the families of the people aboard both planes.

[jeepnik]

Jeepnik has the gist of things. We think too much of Aircraft like the p-63 King Cobra and the B-17 Fortress to do such a deliberate act. The faster AC should have been on the outside of the '17's turn with his faster speed. Definitely not at the same altitude. Wonder if he was doing a high speed pass by the '17 so someone inside the AC could get a good picture?
Had a cousin that stayed in his F-4 Phantom, after flameout, so the AC wouldn't crash into buildings and injure/kill others. By the time he was safely over water, it was too late to eject.

The Martin Baker in the Phantom was zero zero Unless inverted they supposedly would work. But sadly things don’t always work like they should.

[Rockrat]

From what I remember of the crash, he just barely cleared the buildings at the waterfront, so was under 200' and probably less than 100' when he was over water (feet wet).

[jeepnik]

From what I remember of the crash, he just barely cleared the buildings at the waterfront, so was under 200' and probably less than 100' when he was over water (feet wet).

Some pilots just decide not to eject. It’s not a guarantee of survival. Like so many airmen he chose others over himself not many have that in them.

[Old No7]

From what I remember of the crash, he just barely cleared the buildings at the waterfront, so was under 200' and probably less than 100' when he was over water (feet wet).

Some pilots just decide not to eject. It’s not a guarantee of survival.

Yes, several Air Force -- and Army Air Corp (peers of my late father from the base of the famed WWII Eagle Squadrons) have told me the same thing -- pilots are most comfortable "in their element" -- which is the cockpit! And especially in WWII, pilots formed an emotional bond with their planes, as did the ground crews.

Such a tragedy to lose all those lives and 2 warbirds...

Old No7

[AJMD429]

.
This video goes a bit into the history of the planes and individuals:

https://youtu.be/zIi2b2Ztem0

I wonder if they'll ever really figure out the cause.