My grail gun from Colorado gun show

[marlinman93]

Picked up this 1st Generation Ballard #6 Offhand Rifle at the Colorado show this weekend. One of the most rare models offered by Marlin as it was only offered for a couple years 1878-1880 until they changed them to a pistol gripped stock.
I've got a later pistol grip #6 Rigby, but been hoping to find a 1st model for probably 30 years, and when I found them the price was crazy high! This one has the Abalone crescent moon, and cut for a rear dovetail to accept a full length scope; so not 100% original and I could afford it.
I picked up a nice Stevens Ideal 6x scope with dovetail bases at the same show, so put it on today.
Buttplate is a rare silver plated, not nickel, so I polished off the tarnish on it too! Caliber is .40-65 Ballard Everlasting, and not sure yet what I'll use to form brass? If anyone has built cases for this unusual cartridge, let me know!





Buffalo engraved:


Buck and doe:


Abalone crescent moon:


Heavily tarnished German style buttplate:

[Tycer]

You know, those things I’ve never really floated my boat. But boy that’s a sexy gun! Congratulations!

[Rockrat]

Sweet looking rifle. Wanted to go to it, but something else came up and couldn't

[Scott Tschirhart]

That' just plain gorgeous!

[gamekeeper]

That's a interesting rifle for sure... Congratulations on finding it.

[jdad]

When you spoke with me from the show and said it was high condition, for 140 years old, you weren't kidding.

[marlinman93]

The bore looks like new on it, so should shoot great once I work up cartridges. I may end up using the same .405 Win. Hornady brass also! I was told by an "expert" at the show who said it's a completely different case than my .40-63 Everlasting I already load for. So planned on searching down some spendy donor brass to form. But I grabbed a loaded .40-63 cartridge and dropped it in the chamber, and it fit great! Extracted just fine, and the rim cut fit perfect! Supposedly COTW states the rims are .555" on the .40-63, and .600" on the .40-65, but they fit the same!
COTW also states the bullets for both are .403" and all my .40-63's are .409"-.411", so they're probably wrong there also. I'll chamber cast it and then see if there's enough difference to even care, or worry about.

[CowboyTutt]

MM, that is an outstanding find for sure! COTW 9th page 124 says the 40-70 Ballard and 40-63 Ballard will chamber in older 40-65 rifles but the 40-65 case will not fit the other chamber. It notes that firing the smaller diameter cases could result in a case wall rupture and they discourage the idea. It says it should be possible to convert 444 Marlin cases to work.

-Tutt

[marlinman93]

MM, that is an outstanding find for sure! COTW 9th page 124 says the 40-70 Ballard and 40-63 Ballard will chamber in older 40-65 rifles but the 40-65 case will not fit the other chamber. It notes that firing the smaller diameter cases could result in a case wall rupture and they discourage the idea. It says it should be possible to convert 444 Marlin cases to work.

-Tutt

Thanks for that info! I'll do a chamber cast first, to see how close they are. If the dimensions of the .405 Win. brass is close enough I'll load a small quantity before I go too far. Hate to lose any of my .405 Hornady brass as I feed too many rifles in .40-63/70, and .40-70SS with .405 brass.
I think issues with cases splitting is possibly because the smaller .40-63 is the old Everlasting Ballard case, which had thicker walls. Not sure .405 Win. brass would have the same problem with their thinner case walls?
.444 Marlin cases are too short by quite a bit.

[KWK]

Very nice.

I do like Ballards. Romano was to make me a new one, but I'm not sure he will get to it. I may have to start looking at the old ones again. There's a dual firing pin 32 about 50 miles from here in not bad shape...

[Bill in Oregon]

Wonderful acquisition, Vall. Who doesn't love a Ballard?
You might talk to Dave Gullo and his cartridge gurus at Buffalo Arms about potential modifications of existing brass.
Then there is Rocky Mountain Cartridge, which shows .40-65 Ballard Everlasting brass at $77 per 20.

[.45colt]

Great find.!! I am always happy to see people get something they have wanted for along time. the search is sure fun along the way. .

[Pitchy]

[marlinman93]

Wonderful acquisition, Vall. Who doesn't love a Ballard?
You might talk to Dave Gullo and his cartridge gurus at Buffalo Arms about potential modifications of existing brass.
Then there is Rocky Mountain Cartridge, which shows .40-65 Ballard Everlasting brass at $77 per 20.

Dave's site shows his brass as out of stock for this caliber. And his price if he has it is $92 per 20, and it's RMC lathe turned brass! So better to buy direct and save $15. per 20.
It looks like I might be able to use my .405 Win. brass, but need to do the chamber cast first. That will reveal how much difference the brass is, and whether it can expand enough and not split cases when it does. If it does I'm golden, as Reeder Custom Guns got a 20,000 piece back order last year, and I bought their limit of 500 cases when I heard about it. They had a great price, even though they could have easily price gouged and sold it all.

[2ndovc]

To me, there isn't much out there that's as classy as a vintage single shot.

Have fun!

jb

[marlinman93]

To me, there isn't much out there that's as classy as a vintage single shot.

Have fun!

jb

Couldn't agree more! I do still love old Marlin lever guns, but single shots from before 1900 are just my favorite.

[JOG]

That Ballard look like a work of art!
Let us know how it shoot's.

[Oldncrusty]

Mucho congratso! I've been lusting after old single shots since the 80s. I finally got my first, a tired old rolling block, bout a year ago. Still dreaming.

[marlinman93]

Mucho congratso! I've been lusting after old single shots since the 80s. I finally got my first, a tired old rolling block, bout a year ago. Still dreaming.

Old single shots have been the cause of my lever gun demise for many years! I wanted one just to have an example of one of Marlin's single shot rifles. That lead to an old tired #2 in .38 Long RF/CF and I thought I was golden. Then I began tearing it apart to see how it functioned, and of course buying books to learn more. In no time my huge collection of pre 1900 Marlin lever guns took a hit as I sold some to get a nicer Ballard. After that there was no looking back.
I still have some nice Marlin repeaters, but I don't regret selling others to feed the single shot addiction.

Here's a neat artist's drawing by A.B. Frost in 1874, of the first Creedmoor Match! A friend was selling these at the CGCA show also, so I had to buy one to have framed. This enlargement is done on heavy cloth backed vinyl, and I'm going to varnish it first to give it some patina prior to framing it. The photo makes it look rippled and shows the woven material. But it actually doesn't show either when stretched out flat.



There were 10,000 spectators in attendance, and the artist drew in thousands of tiny figures in the background of this drawing. It's a neat image.

[KirkD]

A hearty congratulations! It feels wonderful to finally acquire ones 'grail' gun. Mine was an original NWMP Winchester 1876 carbine and for the first several nights, it lay in an open case beside my bed. I'm sure it is a thrill to finally have your grail gun.

[marlinman93]

A hearty congratulations! It feels wonderful to finally acquire ones 'grail' gun. Mine was an original NWMP Winchester 1876 carbine and for the first several nights, it lay in an open case beside my bed. I'm sure it is a thrill to finally have your grail gun.

I did consider laying the Ballard between my wife and I in bed, but after 42 years married I know my limitations, so it stayed in the gun room. But I have been visiting often, and our monthly collector show is Sunday, so it will be out for show and tell with some brethren Ballards.

[Oldncrusty]

Mucho congratso! I've been lusting after old single shots since the 80s. I finally got my first, a tired old rolling block, bout a year ago. Still dreaming.

Old single shots have been the cause of my lever gun demise for many years! I wanted one just to have an example of one of Marlin's single shot rifles. That lead to an old tired #2 in .38 Long RF/CF and I thought I was golden. Then I began tearing it apart to see how it functioned, and of course buying books to learn more. In no time my huge collection of pre 1900 Marlin lever guns took a hit as I sold some to get a nicer Ballard. After that there was no looking back.
I still have some nice Marlin repeaters, but I don't regret selling others to feed the single shot addiction.

Here's a neat artist's drawing by A.B. Frost in 1874, of the first Creedmoor Match! A friend was selling these at the CGCA show also, so I had to buy one to have framed. This enlargement is done on heavy cloth backed vinyl, and I'm going to varnish it first to give it some patina prior to framing it. The photo makes it look rippled and shows the woven material. But it actually doesn't show either when stretched out flat.



There were 10,000 spectators in attendance, and the artist drew in thousands of tiny figures in the background of this drawing. It's a neat image.

I sort of fell down the lever action hole after lucking into a really nice Marlin 1891 in .32. But I have trouble resisting any old blue and walnut gun in decent shape.
That's a nice print there. Thanks for sharing.

[Galloway]

Wonderful rifle and love that Creedmoor portrait. Does anyone know if you could shoot prone at long range at those matches?

[6pt-sika]

Very nice ! I shot sporting clays Saturday with a friend that attended that show and helped man the Remington Society table.

[Bill in Oregon]

Swell drawing, Vall. Thes days if I tried to shoot from the back position, I'd need assistance getting out of it.

[marlinman93]

Wonderful rifle and love that Creedmoor portrait. Does anyone know if you could shoot prone at long range at those matches?

There were no restrictions for shooting positions, as long as there was no auxiliary support of the guns. No rests, or cross sticks, etc. Most prone shooters used the back position shown in the drawing above, as it gave much better control over the long 34" barrels used on Creedmoor rifles.

[marlinman93]

Swell drawing, Vall. Thes days if I tried to shoot from the back position, I'd need assistance getting out of it.

Same here Bill! I have three Creedmoor rifles, and two have heel bases for the back position. I moved my staff to the rear on my Rolling Block, and tried to just lay on my back, and assume a similar position. I couldn't even get into that position, so I'll not try it myself!