New Cleave reloading tool.
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- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
New Cleave reloading tool.
I'll start off by saying I'm addicted to cool reloading tools! Old tools that are rare or cool, or new tools done in the fashion of old tools. Doesn't matter, as long as they're extremely high quality, and work great. I've got old tools from various companies like Ideal, Marlin, Winchester, etc, and custom made tools by famous makers like HM Pope, George Schoyen, etc. And some by newer guys like Simmons, Bud Barnes, BW Darr.
But I just received a re-decapping tool that is about as cool as any tool I own old or new! It's made for de-priming, and re-priming cases, and is made by Gerald Cleave in California. Gerry has built other tools for me, and also rebuilt my Simmons re-de-capper when I first bought it and the decapping pin was messed up. I asked Gerry to make me a very special tool that could do the calibers I wanted to do most frequently. Those are .45-70, .40-63/70 Ballard, .38-55 Ballard, .32-40 Ballard, and .25-20. So here's what came in the mail this morning:
These tools are loosely based on the HM Pope Stevens tools made when he was employed at Stevens. Gerry's uncle Charlie made copies of them, along with copies made by Simmons, Meacham, and others. After Charlie passed, Gerry took up the mantle and makes these one of a kind custom tools. Each serial numbered, and recorded as to who got them, and what caliber(s) the tool was made for.
I plan to use one of my spare display cases to make a fitted interior, so I can be sure I wont lose any of the parts! There are knurled decapper nuts for each size caliber, along with sleeves for the neck size of each cartridge. And a small and large priming rod for the different primer sizes. The knurled nut is taken off the decapping rod, and the various sleeves are a slip fit over the rod. Then the correct sized knurled nut reinstalled to hold the sleeve in place. The various shell holders are threaded internally, and have a setscrew to hold them in a detent on each shell holder. The end of each handle holds a primer pocket cleaning tool also for small and large primers.
These are a tool to use, but a piece of gun art to be used also! Like the breech seating tool he made for me, this one is serial numbered the same number assigned to my Hepburn breech seater.
But I just received a re-decapping tool that is about as cool as any tool I own old or new! It's made for de-priming, and re-priming cases, and is made by Gerald Cleave in California. Gerry has built other tools for me, and also rebuilt my Simmons re-de-capper when I first bought it and the decapping pin was messed up. I asked Gerry to make me a very special tool that could do the calibers I wanted to do most frequently. Those are .45-70, .40-63/70 Ballard, .38-55 Ballard, .32-40 Ballard, and .25-20. So here's what came in the mail this morning:
These tools are loosely based on the HM Pope Stevens tools made when he was employed at Stevens. Gerry's uncle Charlie made copies of them, along with copies made by Simmons, Meacham, and others. After Charlie passed, Gerry took up the mantle and makes these one of a kind custom tools. Each serial numbered, and recorded as to who got them, and what caliber(s) the tool was made for.
I plan to use one of my spare display cases to make a fitted interior, so I can be sure I wont lose any of the parts! There are knurled decapper nuts for each size caliber, along with sleeves for the neck size of each cartridge. And a small and large priming rod for the different primer sizes. The knurled nut is taken off the decapping rod, and the various sleeves are a slip fit over the rod. Then the correct sized knurled nut reinstalled to hold the sleeve in place. The various shell holders are threaded internally, and have a setscrew to hold them in a detent on each shell holder. The end of each handle holds a primer pocket cleaning tool also for small and large primers.
These are a tool to use, but a piece of gun art to be used also! Like the breech seating tool he made for me, this one is serial numbered the same number assigned to my Hepburn breech seater.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
That tool is kewl beans
Perfect for traveling !
Perfect for traveling !
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Good for traveling, but mostly for shooting and loading at the range. Along with my breech seating tools I can breech seat a bullet into the rifling, and then decap a case, recap it, and charge it with my powder load. So I can sit at the bench all day long and use the same case over and over again using this tool, and my Harrell's Precision powder measure. Just add bullets and primers, and ready to go. And this method of shooting my single shot rifles is more accurate also.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32291
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Cool....
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
If you do not mind me asking! What does a setup like that cost ???
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Prefer not to post prices, as Jerry can quote those. But I can PM you if you'd like?
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32291
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
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Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
I'm still confused as to how it works....it looks like the geometry would be ok to PRIME, but not DE-prime...
Could you post some photos of it 'in-action'...???
Could you post some photos of it 'in-action'...???
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Sure. The case is dropped over the decapping rod, and then the rod moved in against the main body of the tool. Squeeze the handles, and the primer pops out.
Remove the deprimed case and drop a primer in the shell holder, then squeeze the handles again and it's primed.
I normally grab a few hundred or more cases, and deprime them all. Then prime them all at one sitting. Don't switch back and forth from depriming to priming unless I'm shooting a single case while breech seating.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Sure give me a PM .!
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
-
- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
That's a lovely tool, Vall. Always wanted to play with a Pope-style re- and decapper. With your breech seating, you are replicating best practices of the golden years of the schuetzen game. Wonderful!
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Thanks Bill. I breech seat for other non schuetzen calibers occasionally also. I've breech seated and fired the .45-70 and .40-70SS or .40-63 Ballard also. In breech seating I've found I have to raise the powder charge slightly to compensate for the extra case capacity given by the bullet being seated into the rifling. I usually seat about 1/16" ahead of the case mouth, so depending on bullet length it can be a huge increase, which lowers velocity, and chamber pressures.Bill in Oregon wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:16 pm That's a lovely tool, Vall. Always wanted to play with a Pope-style re- and decapper. With your breech seating, you are replicating best practices of the golden years of the schuetzen game. Wonderful!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Very cool tool and beautifully made! Something about a great tool just makes everything a bit better.
Eric
Eric
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Having been a machinist all my life, I think I am qualified to say, .....that is just beautiful. Very well executed.
Must be a joy to use.
Must be a joy to use.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
The Cleave tool is so well made it should last forever without wearing out. And likely longer than the guns or owner will ever wear out. It is such a precisely made tool that Jerry wanted me to send him cases for the various calibers I use to ensure the shell holders fit perfectly. That created a small issue with my .40-63 Ballard cases as I use some originals, but also some .405 Win. cases shortened and resized. So the rims are slightly different. He made that shell holder to be just clearanced enough for the original cases, so the .405 cases wouldn't be too sloppy or loose fitting.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
It is obvious he takes huge pride in his work. It is a tool to be proud of.
When things are fitted with care and precision, wear is reduced exponentially.
When things are fitted with care and precision, wear is reduced exponentially.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32291
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Thanks for the explanation.
I see now you just abut the case against the side of the tool on that ledge.
I see now you just abut the case against the side of the tool on that ledge.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
When you do the one case breech seating method how many firings can you typically get out of a single case , well that is if you’ve ever kept track ? I assume when you do this you also put a witness mark on the case so it orients in the chamber the same each time ?marlinman93 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:29 pm Don't switch back and forth from depriming to priming unless I'm shooting a single case while breech seating.
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
I don't put a witness mark as most headstamps have an easy way to pick a direction and repeat it. So I simply look at some feature of the headstamp and use that.6pt-sika wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:14 pmWhen you do the one case breech seating method how many firings can you typically get out of a single case , well that is if you’ve ever kept track ? I assume when you do this you also put a witness mark on the case so it orients in the chamber the same each time ?marlinman93 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 19, 2020 1:29 pm Don't switch back and forth from depriming to priming unless I'm shooting a single case while breech seating.
I actually have kept track before, but after over 100 firings of the same case I couldn't see any signs of an issue, so I quit around 120 uses. Since the loads are mild, and no sizing to work the brass, they can last longer than I'd track them. I simply make sure I've got at least a couple cases as spares, just in case one does ever fail me.
Once the case has been initially sized and fired, it takes less time to de-prime it, prime it again, charge the case, and breechseat a bullet, than it would take to load the same cartridge at my loading bench. So there's a lot of incentive to breechseat beyond just accuracy increases. Of course this assumes you're shooting a single shot rifle, and have a breech seating tool to fit the rifle.
Breechseating tools can be extremely simple, or be made with a lot of parts, to give the shooter leverage to seat a bullet easier.
This is a Ballard breechseating tool built by Bud Barnes back in the 60's.
This is a Hepburn tool also built by Jerry Cleave.
A Ballard breechseater tool I built.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
Only breech seating tool I’ve ever had in my hands was one of the kinda crooked ones with the palm knob on the back . And that tool while the simplest is probably the most difficult to seat correctly since there’s nothing for leverage . Or so I would assume .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: New Cleave reloading tool.
You're absolutely right. Ideal and Stevens both made push seaters, which work by simply bumping the palm knob with your hand, or a leather mallet. Not very precise, and tough on hands over time. I've got 5 or 6 of them in various calibers I've collected over the years, and tried them just for fun, but they're not much fun to use.6pt-sika wrote: ↑Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:32 pm Only breech seating tool I’ve ever had in my hands was one of the kinda crooked ones with the palm knob on the back . And that tool while the simplest is probably the most difficult to seat correctly since there’s nothing for leverage . Or so I would assume .
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/