2400 & .45-70s Filler a must?

[Old Ironsights]

I think this was answered one or two forums ago, but as I read my Lyman book, they insist that using 2400 in a .45-70 requires filler - in their case, polyester batting is called out.

Is 2400 position sensitive enough in a .45-70 case to have it be an issue... especially if the gun is carried muzzle level/down and brought up from "port arms"?

[Old Savage]

No.

[Paul105]

Here's an article by Paco -- only one mention of using a filler that I could find and it wasn't with the 45-70 and 2400.

http://leverguns.com/articles/paco/small_charges.htm

Paul

[86er]

Ricky and I load some 405's at around 1000fps and we don't use any filler. Never had a problem.

[Old Ironsights]

Thanks. Running a plain-base 330gr 457122 HP at 1400-1600 (21-28gr) seems like a right fine load, but the book's insistance on filler was troubling me.

[Don McDowell]

The filler isn't necessary, they don't even list 2400 in the 48th. (they don't give any bp loads either)

[gon2shoot]

I've got some loaded, with and without, but havent had a chance to shoot any yet.
Hope to get a chance to try them out soon.

[Leverdude]

I put 405 grain bullets on top of 25 grains of 2400 all the time with zero troubles & an acurate load.

[w30wcf]

YES....with lighter bullets. Also, primers can make a difference w/2400. I was shooting some 300 gr. bullets with 2400 and was getting a variation of 200+ f.p.s.(!!) and a bright flame using CCI 200 primers. I switched to WLR primers, the flame went out and the velocities were much more consistant.

w30wcf

[Hobie]

I will state that I think a load that REQUIRES a filler is a load to avoid.



PS I must be having an evil influence around me this morning...

[rjohns94]

No filler requried with 2400 and that load or with 67.5 grains of BP behind .030 wad (unless you consider the wad a filler) and 520 grain Lyman Govt bullet

[KirkD]

I just loaded some 45-70 rounds up, using 2400 and filler. The first round over the chronograph had a velocity about 300 fps faster than what the chart listed without filler. Moral of story, load up one round with filler and keep it very conservative, chrono it, then work from there. Yes, I've found that with 2400, filler does improve burning consistency, but it also essentially simulates a faster powder if you use filler, so load accordingly. Personally, I not very enthusiastic about 2400 in the 45-70 .... too much empty space, and I don't like using filler with powders any faster than 2400. 4227 or 5744 might be a better compromise, but I've not much experience with them in the 45-70. I mostly use 29 or 30 grains of IMR 4198 with 1 sheet of 1-ply filler under a 405 grain cast GC bullet for around 1,400 fps, depending upon barrel length.

[Old Ironsights]

I will state that I think a load that REQUIRES a filler is a load to avoid.

I would agree. It's one extra step and one extra component.

But I really like the "one powder" idea, and 2400 not only looks to be decent with the calibers & bullets I use, but IIRC it's Paco's "one powder" as well.

In .357, 9.3x72R (using 38-55 data) and .410 it provides respectable performance, and the .45-70 numbers look decent too, for comparatively little powder usage. But, as we see, the opinon is mixed, with 6 "no" to 2 "yes".

Yes, for "serious" .4570 GC loads I'll keep some RL-7 on hand, but the idea of a couple 8# jugs of "everything powder" just suits my quirks.

[HEAD0001]

I do not like fillers. I think it is a mistake to choose a powder that does not give good case fill. Or at least some case fill. I think shooter's use the faster powder to save a little money. There are times to be cheap, and times not to be cheap. IMO powder is a time not to be cheap.

You can read a lot of posts about consistent velocity and pressure problems with light loads. But normally a case filled load with proper case preparation will give consistent pressure and velocity.

Personally I like RL7. It costs a little more. But I truly believe it is worth it. Tom.

[Old Ironsights]

I don't disagree Tom, but I'm a bit of a Paranoid and m looking to the (bleak) Future.

If I can do 90+% of my shooting with one powder, its a heckofa lot easier to keep that powder stored "for the rany day" when powder has become a (more) restricted and unavailable comodity.

8lbs 2400 would last a really long time, whereas 8 1lb bottles of 4 different powders means you run out of powder X pretty quickly.

Think Obamanation, and/or a McChurian/Feinstein "Denying Resources to Terrorists" bill...

[Hobie]

I will state that I think a load that REQUIRES a filler is a load to avoid.

I would agree. It's one extra step and one extra component.

But I really like the "one powder" idea, and 2400 not only looks to be decent with the calibers & bullets I use, but IIRC it's Paco's "one powder" as well.

In .357, 9.3x72R (using 38-55 data) and .410 it provides respectable performance, and the .45-70 numbers look decent too, for comparatively little powder usage. But, as we see, the opinon is mixed, with 6 "no" to 2 "yes".

Yes, for "serious" .4570 GC loads I'll keep some RL-7 on hand, but the idea of a couple 8# jugs of "everything powder" just suits my quirks.

Ah, the one powder concept. Doesn't work for me, I know that.

[Old Savage]

The most acurate load I had in either of my 1895SSs was 25.0 gr of 2400 with a 400 gr. Speer. One group went under 1/2" for three shots at 100 yd. This is a load in the Alliant manual. No filler. It was the micro groove rifle. The ballard rifled on or I with it have not shot as well yet. It is nicely accurate though.

[Don McDowell]

Not being one of the conspiracy crowd, I am a "one powder" type of feller tho........
One powder for every cartridge I load for......

[CowboyTutt]

Don, just one powder per cartridge? I'm LUCKY if I get even that! Two powders per cartridge depending on the bullet seems to be my norm!
-Tutt

[Don McDowell]

Tutt its probably closer to 3 per,,,,, but as we're trying to cut corners......

[Old Ironsights]

The filler isn't necessary, they don't even list 2400 in the 48th. (they don't give any bp loads either)

Ah... I have #47... time to scrounge a #48...

[Don McDowell]

They changed alot of stuff from the 47 -48. I think Cabela's had the 48's on sale awhile back. Got mine from Grafs last winter.