Ultra Long Range Pistol Shooting???
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- CowboyTutt
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Ultra Long Range Pistol Shooting???
I just got off the phone with Frank at Mt. Baldy bullets this morning. I'm finishing work on preparing my Ruger Accusport Bisley with its 5 1/2 barrel for long range shooting, and was buying a special bullet for the purpose. The gun has been configured with a "3 gold bar" front sight from David Clements, and I'm preparing to take it with me to Billy Dixon Range over the summer. What Frank told me astounded me.
First off, Frank is a desciple of Elmer Keith and can quote his books chapter and verse like some people quote the Bible! I am not kidding.
He told me he had received a phone call from John Linebaugh the other day. John had apparently been doing some ultra long range shooting with a 45 Colt Ruger SA revolver using Franks 310 plain base Keith bullet off of a rest. John indicated that he shot an 18" group at a marked 1000 yards!!!!
I asked Frank more about this type of shooting. He indicated that a gun with over a 5 1/2" barrel doesn't work because there is not enough hold-over available on the front sight. I was very pleased to hear this as mine has exactly that barrel length. Furthermore, Frank has made marks on the barrel of a gun, even at the front of the receiver, to make a reference point for extreme hold-over. What a neat idea! I'm going to bring a black Sharpie with me in case I need it. Finally, I asked him what did he zero the pistol for, and he told me 100 yards.
So, now I know what to do. I hope to fire-lap my Bisley and have it sighted in for 100 yards before I go to Billy Dixon in July!
I'll keep you guys posted on the "grand experiment".
Just thought this was too interesting not to share!
-Tutt
First off, Frank is a desciple of Elmer Keith and can quote his books chapter and verse like some people quote the Bible! I am not kidding.
He told me he had received a phone call from John Linebaugh the other day. John had apparently been doing some ultra long range shooting with a 45 Colt Ruger SA revolver using Franks 310 plain base Keith bullet off of a rest. John indicated that he shot an 18" group at a marked 1000 yards!!!!
I asked Frank more about this type of shooting. He indicated that a gun with over a 5 1/2" barrel doesn't work because there is not enough hold-over available on the front sight. I was very pleased to hear this as mine has exactly that barrel length. Furthermore, Frank has made marks on the barrel of a gun, even at the front of the receiver, to make a reference point for extreme hold-over. What a neat idea! I'm going to bring a black Sharpie with me in case I need it. Finally, I asked him what did he zero the pistol for, and he told me 100 yards.
So, now I know what to do. I hope to fire-lap my Bisley and have it sighted in for 100 yards before I go to Billy Dixon in July!
I'll keep you guys posted on the "grand experiment".
Just thought this was too interesting not to share!
-Tutt
- CowboyTutt
- Advanced Levergunner
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- CowboyTutt
- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 pm
- Location: Mission Viejo, CA
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Keith did his long range work with a 44 special.CowboyTutt wrote:Mescalaro, I'm not aware of any competitions of this nature. There may be some, but I honestly don't know.
Andrew, I'm a pretty rusty pistol shot, and certainly no John Linebaugh! But I'm going to try and see what I can do!
-Tutt
SASS# 51223
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30
Arizona Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Cowtown Cowboy Shooter's Assoc.
Uberti 73/44-40 carbine, Rossi 92/44-40,
Marlin 94CB/44 24" Limited, Winchester 94/30-30
- CowboyTutt
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Lefty, I know Elmer used a 44, but I suspect it was his hot-loaded pre-44 mag special! I may be wrong, and someone please correct me if so. He probably did it with both ordinary and magnum level specials.
The bullet I have ordered is proportionally the same as what worked best in the 44 mag/special, just sized up to 452.
-Tutt
The bullet I have ordered is proportionally the same as what worked best in the 44 mag/special, just sized up to 452.
-Tutt
I recall Keith using many different rounds in long range shooting, 38-44 (38 spl on a 44 frame, the predesessor of the 357) 357, 44 spl, 44 mag, and 45 Colt.
Are you sure about that 18" @ 1000 yards? I recall John saying something about someone reporting seeing them shoot 12" groups @ 300 yards with sixguns, and John saying that that sort of reporting wasn't doing much good (meaning that it was a bit exagerated as to smallness of groups). I believe they were shooting steel plates or rocks, not paper, so actual group size was a bit hard to determine.
Are you sure about that 18" @ 1000 yards? I recall John saying something about someone reporting seeing them shoot 12" groups @ 300 yards with sixguns, and John saying that that sort of reporting wasn't doing much good (meaning that it was a bit exagerated as to smallness of groups). I believe they were shooting steel plates or rocks, not paper, so actual group size was a bit hard to determine.
- CowboyTutt
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- CowboyTutt
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John is a heck of a fine pistol shot, but I would be truly surprised at 18" groups @ 1000 (thousand) yards.
If John said it could be done, I would believe it, but I'd guess that somehow some wires got crossed.
Keith shot a deer at 600 yards once, (that had been hit with a rifle and was getting away), but he shot farther than that in experimenting.
If John said it could be done, I would believe it, but I'd guess that somehow some wires got crossed.
Keith shot a deer at 600 yards once, (that had been hit with a rifle and was getting away), but he shot farther than that in experimenting.
- CowboyTutt
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- AJMD429
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I can't believe it possible to get even a 2-shot group like that at 1,000 yards other than by chance, using an open-sighted gun; just think about how small that increment is in terms of the front sight width - [ corrected math ] - it would equate to 1.8" at 100 yards, 0.018" at 1 yard or 36" and a six-inch sight radius would cut that down to 0.003" - that you'd need to be able to discriminate at arms length. OK - I'll make it 0.004" since the sight radius is probably more like 8" if you add the frame length. [ even after math correction - WOW you'd have to have great eyesight! ]Malamute wrote:John is a heck of a fine pistol shot, but I would be truly surprised at 18" groups @ 1000 (thousand) yards.
If John said it could be done, I would believe it, but I'd guess that somehow some wires got crossed.
Keith shot a deer at 600 yards once, (that had been hit with a rifle and was getting away), but he shot farther than that in experimenting.
Who has vision that good...?
Last edited by AJMD429 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KirkD
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Beautiful iron and wood, Tutt! Keep us posted. I'd like to try my 44 Russian at longer ranges than just 25 yards.
Kirk: An old geezer who loves the smell of freshly turned earth, old cedar rail fences, wood smoke, a crackling fireplace on a snowy evening, pristine wilderness lakes, the scent of
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
cedars and a magnificent Whitetail buck framed in the semi-buckhorn sights of a 120-year old Winchester.
Blog: https://www.kirkdurston.com/
Cowboy Tutt,
Sounds interesting! Nice pistol! I do believe that it is definitely possible...obviously with great weather conditions.
I have shot my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy rifle @ Homer, the 1,000 yard Buffalo with an extension added onto the rear tang sight, and I can tell you that I wouldn't want anyone shooting at me with my rifle at 1,000 yards.
Inspired by Elmer Keith, a number of years ago I tried my Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk on the 500 meter NRA steel ram silhouettes from a benchrest. When I did things right, I hit about 50% of them. The ram is 13" high x 32" long.
Have fun,
w30wcf
Sounds interesting! Nice pistol! I do believe that it is definitely possible...obviously with great weather conditions.
I have shot my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy rifle @ Homer, the 1,000 yard Buffalo with an extension added onto the rear tang sight, and I can tell you that I wouldn't want anyone shooting at me with my rifle at 1,000 yards.
Inspired by Elmer Keith, a number of years ago I tried my Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk on the 500 meter NRA steel ram silhouettes from a benchrest. When I did things right, I hit about 50% of them. The ram is 13" high x 32" long.
Have fun,
w30wcf
aka John Kort
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
aka Jack Christian SASS 11993 "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." Philippians 4:13
aka w44wcf (black powder)
NRA Life member
.22 WCF, .30 WCF, .44 WCF Cartridge Historian
Re: Ultra Long Range Pistol Shooting???
There were a series of articles a few years back in Precision Shooting Mag (or maybe The Accurate Rifle magazine) by a fellow who shot a S&W 629 Classic and a Freedom Arms 83 (both in .44 mag) at 1000 yards using iron sights. He shot at juniper trees somewhere in Idaho I think. He usually shot offhand. It sounded awful fun although he missed a lot.
I tried a few times at the range in Worland, Wyoming (Linebaugh was there by the way) at 785 yards, according to my rangefinder. Didn't hit the rock on the backstop we were shooting at but those long-delayed dust clouds produced by the .44 and his .500 Linebaugh were a kick in the pants.
18" is of course possible, a freak group maybe, but I doubt anything like that is repeatable.
I tried a few times at the range in Worland, Wyoming (Linebaugh was there by the way) at 785 yards, according to my rangefinder. Didn't hit the rock on the backstop we were shooting at but those long-delayed dust clouds produced by the .44 and his .500 Linebaugh were a kick in the pants.
18" is of course possible, a freak group maybe, but I doubt anything like that is repeatable.
Why not a 50-state secession?
- CowboyTutt
- Advanced Levergunner
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- Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:27 pm
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Re: Ultra Long Range Pistol Shooting???
Wow, I'm in shock at the new forum. And I will need to change my icon pic. I've been squished! Anyhow, I have not spoke to John L. but I did speak to Mic McPehrson last night. He said that John likes to shoot at an 18" gong and that maybe he hit it 4 out of 6 times or something. I will try to find out during the week.
-Tutt
-Tutt
- AJMD429
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Re: Ultra Long Range Pistol Shooting???
We are near a corn field about 800 yards long, and I can't imagine I could even SEE an 18" gong with bare eyes at that range! We have a 55-gallon jug we shoot at sometimes at around 600 yards (with rifles ) and I can barely see that through a 4x scope. (My mom DID always say I was gonna go blind if I didn't behave myself ).CowboyTutt wrote:Wow, I'm in shock at the new forum. And I will need to change my icon pic. I've been squished! Anyhow, I have not spoke to John L. but I did speak to Mic McPehrson last night. He said that John likes to shoot at an 18" gong and that maybe he hit it 4 out of 6 times or something. I will try to find out during the week.
-Tutt
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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Re: Ultra Long Range Pistol Shooting???
We used to have a range at the deer lease that was 300 yds and we had a 55 gal drum there. It was not too difficult to keep my Super Blackhawk on the barrel, so long as I shot across my knees while resting against the truck. I might have even claimed a group size on a good day but it was hard to call a shot for certain. That was already a LOOOONG way for me - 1000 yds is a purty fair piece for a competent rifleman, it would be going some for a pistola...wonder what the midrange trajectory is?